Sex Changes

[Ahimsa]

## That raises some awkward questions - for example, how is that to be reconciled with the practice, abolished only in 1878, of castrating boys so as to keep their voices unbroken ? …

What is the value of an infallibility which leaves Popes ignorant that treating the young like this is evil ? Pius V condemned bull-fighting, without being infallible - why could his later successors not condemn this ? ##

So, Gottle,

Ah, but this wasn’t a case of ex cathedra on morals and faith, right?

 

[aspawloski4th]

TableServant:

Hmmm…

I don’t mean to over simplify this, but this line came up in a discussion on this topic:

“God does not make mistakes when creating his children.” (repeated later as just “God doesn’t make mistakes”)

In a way, that says it all for me. God did not make a mistake in creating me male, or in creating someone else female. Someone who sees themselves as being the wrong gender may be afflicted in a similar fashion to those who have SSA. Our (American, especially) culture does indulge and feed into these feelings, though (as well as negative backlashes against people suffering from these afflictions), and may lead to people taking drastic action which severely alters their body in an attempt to “correct” what they see as a “mistake”.

what about hermaphrotic people with both sets of genitelia, to the extent one has to make an abritrary decision on what gender to raise the child? I havent heard an answer to that one yet. and taking sex and gender out of the issue, what about a baby sister of mine who was born with just a brain stem? Yes I agree God doesnt make mistakes himself, but because of sin he lets nature make mistakes. also just because one cant get pregent doesnt mean she is a real famale, a good friend of my wife’s who is in her 20s would take umbridge at that statement. she is sterile thru no fault of her own, but she is all woman.
I find it funny in this day and age where the emphesis being on whats on the inside on just close to about everything, making the outer self of less concearn, that a lot of us suddenly change our tune when it comes to sexual/gender indentity, it reeks of and has double standard written all over it!
I happen to have a friend who is ts and going through the transition, and she no better live as a male as I could make the cut in pro sports!
the fact is on the whole realm of cross gender issues the church has no official stand yet, except for addressing things like who cant be in the priesthood. because knowledge on this subject isnt easy to comeby and its still a bit in obscurity I dont look for anything soon.

 

[Lynn-D]

Once again I find myself defending against those with closed minds. I am one who did have a ‘sex change’. My body actually was surgically adjusted so that it and my brain melded. I was born with a female brain as tests proved before and after my surgery. I was also born with a third nipple, no prostate, sterile, etc. Was this God’s mistake or can we just chalk it up to a mistake of nature? For all I might guess it could have been a test imposed upon me that will be explained by Him when He has me appear before Him. For the time being I accept it as one of God’s mysteries and someday I might be able to ask Him, WHY!
Perhaps some should study the research done by the Dutch, Gooren and others on the BST of the brain and perhaps they might learn something. Might do well to explore past the chromosomes and study gnomes as well. I and others like me never had a choice; it was inherent and the biological error is what the researchers refer to as a hormonal wash anomaly in the fetal stage. I think too many are confusing intersexed and transsexuals with those who are transgendered or they are getting their info from watching to many Jerry Springer type shows or tabloids at the checkout counter.
I did not change my gender, my brain was always female. I changed my apparent physical sex to meld with my born mental gender. Simple for me to understand as did The Church at one time as well.
By the way, the Catholic Church DID change my baptismal certificate after my reassignment quite some time ago. It was never considered as a mortal sin, never. I talked with my priest before, during and after my transition and never was it suggested I might be committing a mortal sin. My Cardinal and the Vatican at the time did not think so either. If not a mortal sin then, why now? I continue to go to mass and receive communion to this day. In fact I was anointed with oils before a recent open heart surgery in a Catholic Hospital, received daily communion afterwards and prayed with the nuns who comforted me.
I also believe in Matthew 5:10 and think others should read and follow it as well.
This might gall some but I am also married and my husband and I are both faithful Catholics but we are hurt by the ignorant attacks by those who claim to be God’s children.
This topic was well covered once before in another section of CAF so I would prefer not to have to hash it over again. I am a Catholic and am in a state of grace and that is all I should have to say.
Lynn-D

 

[aspawloski4th]

Im still waiting for an answer to my questions!

 

[spiritblows]

This is an interesting discussion. As some posters have brought up, there are medical conditions that warrent this as a sort of ‘corrective surgury’. There are people who are anomolies of nature, who have ambiguous genetilia, or men with a xxy, or other unusual problems related to gender. Just as some babies are born with heart defects, some with chromosome disorders, extra digits, cleft palates, etc, well, some are born with gender related anomolies. Correcting these is not a moral consideration.

Probably, there are some people who develop psychological problems leading to a strong desire developing as get older to change genders. As with many psychological problems, there are sometimes physical triggers or causes. These unfortunates are most likely not morally culpable for their disorder.

Have you guys heard of ‘Amputee Wannabes’? They are people who develop an intense longing to have a limb amputated. What causes this? Who knows?, the human mind is a complicated and mysterious thing…

The ethics of amputation by choice

There are plenty of articles about this if you do a google search.

 

[Lynn-D]

spiritblows:

This is an interesting discussion. As some posters have brought up, there are medical conditions that warrent this as a sort of ‘corrective surgury’.
There are people who are anomolies of nature, who have ambiguous genetilia, or men with a xxy, or other unusual problems related to gender.
These unfortunates are most likely not morally culpable for their disorder.
Have you guys heard of ‘Amputee Wannabes’? .

Once again it seems that many fall into the fallacy of referring to sex as gender. Sex is your genitals and gender your mental sexuality. I changed my sex, (trans sex ual), I did not change my brain, (trans gender). It was female from the early months following conception.
Yes, I have read of those wishing amputation and Michael Bailey in his latest paper gave credence to that with reference to autogynephilics. That is fetishism taken to its extreme I might add and not classical transsexualism. Blame the therapists for being irresponsible in not dealing with the transgendered coming into their offices who are searching for permanency of their actual fetish.
I am not an ‘unfortunate’ and do not suffer from any ‘disorder’. I was born with a biological condition known as transsexualism and was pained by it but now it has been corrected and no matter what anyone ignorantly thinks I am a female; a woman mentally, physically, legally and socially.
Unlike those with severe psychological problems that McHugh may have dealt with I am like many of those McHugh never met. Then again he seemed to be dealing with the transgenders who outnumber the transsexuals by an estimated 100 to 1 and put them all falsely in the same category. Most of the successful ts’s like me live a basic stealth life so we are not out there displaying ourselves or crying, ‘woe is me’, to McHugh and the other shrinks. We live as the women we are, we do not mimic them.
I married my husband 21 yrs ago, (he was a naval officer, captain), I built my own business as a woman, ran it successfully, and eventually sold it for a very good return and now enjoy an early retirement. McHugh never met me or any of my friends who are doing the same. You would be amazed if you were to read the names and professions of some who have had reassignment surgery: doctors, surgeons, lawyers, teachers, priests, ministers, engineers, designers, business owners. I could go on and on. Two of my friends are engineers for big companies working on and designing communication systems that you depend upon each and every day. One of my friends is a former Anglican priest and another is a retired school teacher. They are of course not McHugh patients or Bailey subject matter found in drag clubs. They are women.
To be morally culpable would imply that otherwise what I am is somehow sinful. As I said before, the Catholic Church did not think so when it changed my baptismal certificate back in the 70’s so why would it be morally wrong or sinful now I must wonder?
Lynn-D

 

[Guar_Fan]

spiritblows:

As with many psychological problems, there are sometimes physical triggers or causes. These unfortunates are most likely not morally culpable for their disorder.

Yes. And the science, which is still in its infancy, seems to support the biological basis of transsexualism. There have already been several linked articles which affirm this.

Have you guys heard of ‘Amputee Wannabes’? They are people who develop an intense longing to have a limb amputated. What causes this? Who knows?, the human mind is a complicated and mysterious thing…

I have heard about about this. I guess I am bothered by the comparison because transsexualism seems to be something people are born with - its roots seem to be in fetal development. And transsexualism first becomes apparent in early childhood.

Amputee wannabes seem to develop their desire later in life. Which suggests that life events and psychological development may be involved in its cause - unlike transsexualism.