Sex Criteria FAIL & NFP Contradictory - Questions

[funkAYE]

I was wondering what people thought of a scenario where a Catholic married couple has sex but doesn’t give a care about “giving themselves to each other” or “having kids” and pretty much just have sex for their own respective pleasure. Like is this a sin still or are they covered since it is under the umbrella of the Catholic marriage? I asked this because I feel like most Catholic marriages don’t really understand the underlying meaning of sex still and are just Catholic in a shallow sense and her just having sex for sex’s sake. My parents for instance don’t even really like each other all that much but they still have sex so I’m pretty sure it’s kind of self-serving and not really an act of giving. So like I don’t know if they’re committing a mortal sin. Also my mom has her tubes tied so that’s another factor as well but yeah I’m wondering in the scenario where she did have then tied and didnt if its ok that they are doing it?
I also have a question about NFP. It doesn’t make sense to me. Like, you are basically preventing having kids by meticulously planning out your sex life kind of, like isn’t this directly not open to life? Okay yeah the possibility is there still but it’s just still a direct act intended to not have kids so it’s like what the hell. And you know the parents don’t want kids at all at that point honestly in their minds so it’s like straight up they don’t care about the open to life criteria of sex anymore and are doing it just for the pleasure from then on so yeah can somebody explain how this is a just act once you get to the point where you dont want kids anymore??
Another thing I want to ask is like when do you even know when you’re legitimately like having sex for the right reasons? At some point I might just going to be like oh my gosh I now truly want to give myself to you? It seems very unrealistic for me at this point to think that way. It just seems like sex is naturally for your own pleasure, and that sex out of “giving” is like still very selfish. Here is a realistic thought process i feel like im going to think when im married and having sex “I love you hella babe, like I legitimately love you for x reasons and truly do want to work together in this marriage to better both of our relationships with God, but right now I don’t care about any of that I just want to bang you”
Yknow what i mean?
And it’s crazy like, it seems like for sex to be valid in the eyes of the church you have to have some great reverence and solid understanding of what this giving of yourself means or else it’s really not ok it’s still just a sin. That’s how I kind of see it at least, I’m probably wrong but yeah if anyone felt my frustration or has some insight into things let me know cuz I am very confused.

 

[ShrodingersCat]

I was wondering what people thought of a scenario where a Catholic married couple has sex but doesn’t give a care about “giving themselves to each other” or “having kids” and pretty much just have sex for their own respective pleasure. Like is this a sin still or are they covered since it is under the umbrella of the Catholic marriage? I asked this because I feel like most Catholic marriages don’t really understand the underlying meaning of sex still and are just Catholic in a shallow sense and her just having sex for sex’s sake. My parents for instance don’t even really like each other all that much but they still have sex so I’m pretty sure it’s kind of self-serving and not really an act of giving. So like I don’t know if they’re committing a mortal sin. Also my mom has her tubes tied so that’s another factor as well but yeah I’m wondering in the scenario where she did have then tied and didnt if its ok that they are doing it?OK so pretending that no tubes have been tied and no other form of contraception is in use, it wouldn’t be a mortal sin. Sex is unative in nature. As long as you aren’t using the other person in a way that hurts them (i.e. coercing them into sex, using it to manipulate them,
etc) there is no criteria to actually want to give yourself to that person selflessly to make it kosher. That is the ideal that we should all strive for: selfless sex. But the vast majority of people are at least a little selfish about it: after all it feels great. And that’s OK, that is how God designed it.
I also have a question about NFP. It doesn’t make sense to me. Like, you are basically preventing having kids by meticulously planning out your sex life kind of, like isn’t this directly not open to life? Okay yeah the possibility is there still but it’s just still a direct act intended to not have kids so it’s like what the hell. And you know the parents don’t want kids at all at that point honestly in their minds so it’s like straight up they don’t care about the open to life criteria of sex anymore and are doing it just for the pleasure from then on so yeah can somebody explain how this is a just act once you get to the point where you dont want kids anymore??**The problem with artificial contraception is that you are deliberately frustrating the act of sex. Being open to life actually means being willing to do your best if God sends you a child. God designed women to only be fertile at certain times. NFP is a way of working within the natural biological design. The problem with ABC is that it is more like being given a gift by God and smashing it on the floor. NFP is more like thanking him for the gift and saying that you will use it later (crude analogy). **
Another thing I want to ask is like when do you even know when you’re legitimately like having sex for the right reasons? At some point I might just going to be like oh my gosh I now truly want to give myself to you? It seems very unrealistic for me at this point to think that way. It just seems like sex is naturally for your own pleasure, and that sex out of “giving” is like still very selfish. Here is a realistic thought process i feel like im going to think when im married and having sex “I love you hella babe, like I legitimately love you for x reasons and truly do want to work together in this marriage to better both of our relationships with God, but right now I don’t care about any of that I just want to bang you”
Yknow what i mean?
And it’s crazy like, it seems like for sex to be valid in the eyes of the church you have to have some great reverence and solid understanding of what this giving of yourself means or else it’s really not ok it’s still just a sin. That’s how I kind of see it at least, I’m probably wrong but yeah if anyone felt my frustration or has some insight into things let me know cuz I am very confused.**Criteria for having vaginal sex according to the CCC: Be married, don’t use artificial contraception, do not force anyone into it or do things that make them uncomfortable. If you want to have sex because you are super horny and your wife says she feels sick and you say “OK no worries”, then you clearly are putting her before yourself, even if your primary motivation was sexual release. If you start sulking and making her feel bad for not being up for it that is a problem. Remember God designed us as sexual beings. Libido is a feature not a bug. **

 

[1ke]

Are you a teen or an adult?

 

[St_Francis]

People use NFP to avoid pregnancy because they have a reason serious enough to forego the marital act to accomplish avoiding pregnancy.

NFP to avoid pregnancy is moral because the means (method) of obtaining the goal is moral. It’s ok to say, we have situation X and having children would be a bad thing in this situation.

What is immoral about artificial birth control (abc) is that the couple *has *sex while avoiding the result: although they do not want children, they don’t want to sacrifice the marital act.

 

[Arizona_Fat_Gir]

Just think. Having baby pandas is a happy event. Some just can’t have cubs.

Humans could have been created whereby they only have a viable conception once a year, if that.

 

[TechieGuy]

Oh you sweet summer child…you are making this *way *too complicated…

 

[AdamP88]

Here is a realistic thought process i feel like im going to think when im married and having sex “I love you hella babe, like I legitimately love you for x reasons and truly do want to work together in this marriage to better both of our relationships with God, but right now I don’t care about any of that I just want to bang you”

While you shouldn’t approach your spouse in a disrespectful manner, or objectify them, yeah, I think it’s fair to say that sometimes both spouses just want (and need sometimes) the pleasure and intimacy of sex.

I think you are on to something here, but you’re over-complicating it. You don’t have to read chapters of Theology of the Body before you have sex, or to approach it with a purely Theological and rigid attitude. You just need to have, in general, an attitude that puts your spouse first. That extends into all areas of your shared life, including the bedroom. If you have the theology and the knowledge, and an active prayer life, then it should inform all your actions, without you even having to worry about it.
Basically, you should be sacrificing and giving yourself to your spouse in every other area of life so that it comes naturally when you make love.

I also have a question about NFP. It doesn’t make sense to me. Like, you are basically preventing having kids by meticulously planning out your sex life kind of, like isn’t this directly not open to life?

You are in error here. There is a big difference between “blocking” the sex act from doing what it is supposed to do and taking advantage of the natural cycle that the woman has in order to plan when to have/avoid kids, in the interests of the family as a whole. That said, the couple practicing NFP should be praying and discerning God’s will for their family and should think carefully about whether their reasons for using it are legit.