Sex life of a Godly family?

[copland]

I checked out Billings method! Excellent!!

Thank you all so much for everything!

 

[Gertrude]

copland:

I know that this may be a little more then what people want to discuss. But let me ask a serious question.

I have not gotten very far with learning about what the Catholic Church teaches about sex. But I do know that the protestant churches has no problems with married couples using any kind of contrasceptive to prevent pregnancy. But what is the “norm” for a sex life of a Catholic couple who don’t exactly desire to have children? Please forgive me for my ignorance on this subject, but I really don;t know what alternatives to sex with contraceptives. Is there a certain time that couples can have it when the woman is not fertile? What is the norm of that? Or does the Church teach that the only time you couple can have sex is when they are wanting a child?(Surely not!)

“SURELY NOT!” *Whew!! *

Natural Family Planning is the only method that’s approved of. The average woman is fertile for the first 10-14 days of her cycle (first day of period being day one) and that’s when you avoid each other’s loving unless you don’t mind another smiling face at the table! There are far more complex ways involving charts and themometers (and signs of fertility that are pretty accurate) but that rule of thumb worked for us. I’d recommend buying the Catechism of the Catholic Faith, if you don’t have one already. Here’s what it says about this:

**2370 **Periodic continence, that is, the methods of birth regulation based on self-observation and the use of infertile periods, is in conformity with the objective criteria of morality.158 These methods respect the bodies of the spouses, encourage tenderness between them, and favor the education of an authentic freedom. In contrast, “every action which, whether in anticipation of the conjugal act, or in its accomplishment, or in the development of its natural consequences, proposes, whether as an end or as a means, to render procreation impossible” is intrinsically evil:159
Thus the innate LANGUAGE that expresses the total reciprocal self-giving of husband and wife is overlaid, through contraception, by an objectively contradictory LANGUAGE, namely, that of not giving oneself totally to the other. This leads not only to a positive refusal to be open to life but also to a falsification of the inner truth of conjugal love, which is called upon to give itself in personal totality. . . . The difference, both anthropological and moral, between contraception and recourse to the rhythm of the cycle . . . involves in the final analysis two irreconcilable concepts of the human person and of human sexuality.160

 

[drg]

copland,

Since your wife is Pprotestant, you might try this book:

OPEN EMBRACE; A PROTESTANT COUPLE RETHINKS CONTRACEPTION
Author: SAM AND BETHANY TORODE

It’s available from CCL at:

ccli.org/catalog/cclcatalog.phtml?f_cat=marriage&criteria=category&order_by=name

I haven’t read it, but most of the material at CCL is good!

Peace

 

[YinYangMom]

2370 Periodic continence, that is, the methods of birth regulation based on self-observation and the use of infertile periods, is in conformity with the objective criteria of morality.158 These methods respect the bodies of the spouses, encourage tenderness between them, and favor the education of an authentic freedom. In contrast, “every action which, whether in anticipation of the conjugal act, or in its accomplishment, or in the development of its natural consequences, proposes, whether as an end or as a means, to render procreation impossible” is intrinsically evil:159
Thus the innate LANGUAGE that expresses the total reciprocal self-giving of husband and wife is overlaid, through contraception, by an objectively contradictory LANGUAGE, namely, that of not giving oneself totally to the other. This leads not only to a positive refusal to be open to life but also to a falsification of the inner truth of conjugal love, which is called upon to give itself in personal totality. . . . The difference, both anthropological and moral, between contraception and recourse to the rhythm of the cycle . . . involves in the final analysis two irreconcilable concepts of the human person and of human sexuality.160

Does anyone else get dizzy reading that kind of writing. I’m an educated woman, and I look the the catechism often for guidance, but it’s passages like those above which drive me nuts. I recognize the words and basicaly follow the grammer, but then the logic escapes me along the way. I feel like an idiot at times.

Here’s where I get really lost…even in reading these great posts in this thread…
I don’t understand the “unitive” purpose of sex when using NFP in order not to conceive. I can understand the ‘be open to God’s will’ part where by choosing to marry we open ourselves to the possibilty of conception each time we unite and we grow spiritually together in that process…
but when we make a conscious decision to no longer put our trust in God in that regard, and choose NFP as the means to control that decision…then how can the ‘union’ of the times outside the 7-10 days be considered unitive in our spiritual growth when both parties ‘believe’ they are in control?

 

[tudie]

I wish I could comment on this one…but my dad might see me

Good topic.

 

[tudie]

Good point. I don’t like contraception and don’t think I am going to use it. Frankly, the idea of having 4-5 kids is neat as long as they are taken care of. You are right. It is a culture to have a bunch of kids and it seems magical. I am open to it…don’t know how the logistics would work…but it seem neat. What a nice life plan. Frankly, we need more Catholics.

Dadof9:

We should first look at why we are not desirous of a child. God asks that we be generous with Him. When we create a child, we create a vessel for a soul that will know ,love, and serve God. Our society has forgotten that. We think kids are for college. We have the children that we want, and then lock God out of the marriage. How offensive that must be to Him. Interfering with Gods creative plan in marriage is gravely sinful, and must be avoided. We as parents must surrender to God what is His. If God is truly the God over our lives, then does that not include our fertility? The church does allow for the use of Natural Family Planning if there is a grave reason for doing so. We have to be careful with that,also, because we can easily adopt a contraceptive mentality with that as well. Let go and let God and love your wife as He intended.

 

[Katia]

Definitely try the Torode book, as it might have a more Protestant point of view. I’d also highly recommend Life-Giving Love by Kimberley Hahn, a convert to the Catholic Church from Protestantism. Ironically, it was looking into birth control that got her started on her journey.

Couple-To-Couple League and Northwest Family Services both have good NFP programs. We use Northwest’s and find it to be an excellent program, and easy to understand and follow. NFP is over 99.9% effective and can be used to both avoid and achieve pregnancy, and can be helpful in locating some fertility problems, as well as in maximizing your chances of conception when you have minimal fertility. There are no negative side-effects, and no chance of an early abortion, which the other methods can cause (they don’t always manage to prevent ovulation, and their secondary job is to prevent implantation after conception if it occurs).

I totally understand where your wife is coming from, as I was completely opposed to NFP at the time I converted to Catholicism (right about the time we got married). I’m sorry to say, I did not do the right thing immediately, even though my cradle-Catholic husband wanted to use NFP, but have since rectified the situation, and are now teaching NFP. God works in mysterious ways. The turn-around came as I read and learned more about the Church, her authority to teach, and the extensive history behind the opposition to contraception throughout the Christian world. The Protestants first approved it’s use in hardship cases in the 1930’s, and it was a slippery slope since then. Until that time, no Christian churches approved.

On a positive note, my husband and I just convinced Protestant friends of ours who were about to marry (and who were being hit up with contraceptive info) that NFP was a much better route. The “Contraception - Why Not?” tape and the Hahn book seemed to be helpful for them. They even made it through a honeymoon that wasn’t at the “right” time of month for relations, as they didn’t feel that it was the right time to start their family. Best wishes!

 

[ms_cilantro]

If your wife really wants to get her tubes tied make sure she learns of the physical negatives (in case she isn’t open to the moral negatives). For some reason that “isn’t fully understood” the capillaries can change and her cycles can become difficult, more cramping, and heavier bleeding and increases in other pms symptoms. I’m betting she is only focusing on the perceived benefits.

Ms. Cilantro

 

[Katia]

Good point. I believe that in Couple to Couple League’s book, they talk about the serious side effects of having your tubes tied. Such effects, that women have had hysterectomies to rid themselves of the problems caused by the tubal ligation. Hysterectomies, of course, bring their own difficulties (early menopause). Something to think about…

 

[Shelby_Grace]

Katia is right about tubals…

Dear Copland,
Hopefully, you may share this with your dear wife…
I had a ruptured uterus during my third C-section. It was a life-threatening problem that was non-problematic for me or the baby. There was henceforth a big to-do about how we survived etc. I was told by the Humana doctors that I would be getting a tubal while they had my abdomen open on the operating table. I demurred quite strenuously.
I was told that I and any “fetus” would surely die if I was to become pregnant again.Yikes. But no thanks.
I was released from the ungodly non-canonical marriage less than a year later.
I met my husband and became pregnant happily with his child. We both survived…unfortunately, this Catholic hopsital I went to assured me I could carry to almost term, then conned me into a tubal ligation during the surgery to deliver Rachel. They told me they had gotten permission form the Archdiocese Ethics Board.
(No such thing exists) That’s another story…
At any rate, I came home from the hospital 5 days later with a catheter in my bladder from an accidental laceration…I digress!
My point: As soon as I got home the bleeding began and progressive got worse with each period. They went from 7 days to ten to seventeen days long…and by six months later they were all month long, quite heavy and I was anemic.
I didn’t try the Pill to stop bleeding because of its disgusting background and I refused to give money to those companies…
I was told that I needed a hysterectomy to control the bleeding, that I may have intra-muscular fibroids and that my uterus was the size of a 5 month along pregnant uterus…and boy did I feel pregnant and looked it. Never mind the bleeding.
At age 30 I lost my uterus, less than a year after sterilization by tubal ligation. It is not all that uncommon and doctors fail to mention the risks. Just like they do not tell us that the Pill/shots and patches keep new human beings from making a home in the uterus…abd chemically abort them.
May God bless you in your struggle!
Shelby Grace