C
Checksix
Guest
Hello everyone,
This message will contain a kind of detailed question (but not gratuitous … just honestly looking for information) about sex, so please don’t read on unless you are all right with that.
I will be getting married in August, and my fiance and I are both virgins. I have been trying to prepare for our wedding night by making sure that I know as much as I can about the Church’s teachings on sex. I had thought that our pre-Cana instruction would cover sex at some point, but other than the usual NFP class we didn’t get anything about sex itself, about the act and what is or is not moral and so on. I had thought we still had a class or two left but I just found out that our classes are done, so I thought I would take my main question here.
If someone has an answer, please give a source for the information if possible.
So here it is: I gather that a man reaches climax more quickly than a woman in most cases. This is probably going to be especially true of the first time and for some time after that. And even when both spouses are used to sex, I gather that the woman usually has to work harder (or the man work harder for the woman) in order for her to experience a climax. Given this, I would like to know: is a man allowed to give a woman a climax AFTER he has experienced his own, but as part of the same sex act? Of course, a man probably loses his ability to give a woman stimulation in the usual way after he climaxes, so he probably would have to use a hand.
I can’t find a direct answer to this question. I bought of a book called Contemporary Moral Theology that several people on this forum mentioned. It’s really good. It says that a man must climax inside the woman, and that is what makes a marriage act, since that is how procreation occurs. The woman doesn’t have to climax for it to be a valid marriage act, but she is ENTITLED to a climax. The man is also allowed to delay his climax until the woman has climaxed multiple times, as long as he does climax inside the woman (or makes a reasonable effort to do so … the Church isn’t going to condemn people who have problems in this area). But obviously my question is about the opposite case: when the man climaxes before the woman has a chance to. The book doesn’t say anything about whether it is permitted to give the woman a climax with a different method than the usual.
My guess is that this is permitted, as long as it is in the context of the marriage act. At one point the book says, “Deliberate, intended orgasm is not permitted either to husband or wife except in the marriage act, OR IN IMMEDIATE CONJUNCTION [my emphasis] with the marriage act, so that, morally speaking, it is part of the marriage act.” Given that the man must ALWAYS climax inside the woman’s vagina (which EQUALS the marriage act) it seems that that passage is talking about the woman climaxing at times other than when the man does. It doesn’t specify that her climax can come afterwards, but it seems like a natural conclusion. The only thing I get hung up on is that it would require the use of a hand. I know that such stimulation is allowed as foreplay, but is it allowed to bring about an actual climax that way for the woman?
I really want my wife to experience a climax with every act. And I’d love for her to experience more than one! Climaxing at the same time is an ideal, but I don’t think most couples are able to do that regularly.
As a side note, I know that a lot of people think that the Church’s sex teachings are too legalistic, but reading this book it is kind of amazing how much is allowed. Foreplay of any kind, check. Stimulation during the day outside of the marriage act as long as it does not involve a climax, check. What the Church is clear about is what the sex act is, what it is for, and why it is that way. Everything else comes from those understandings. I think that people only think the Church is legalistic when they want to do something, like mutual masturbation or contraception, that is against the purpose of the marriage act.
Also reading this book, I am amazed at how clear the Church used to be in its teachings (the book came out in 1963). Some call that clarity legalism, but to me it is just plain clarity. I think we’ve lost a lot of that these days. Our pre-Cana classes were really general and kind of silly, as if they were afraid to say anything too specific in case someone disagreed with them. But if I wanted “do whatever you feel” I’d be a protestant!
Anyway, I don’t think that what I am asking about is against the purpose of the marriage act, but I just want to be sure.
Also, any other advice for a soon to be husband, especially about the wedding night, would be appreciated!
This message will contain a kind of detailed question (but not gratuitous … just honestly looking for information) about sex, so please don’t read on unless you are all right with that.
I will be getting married in August, and my fiance and I are both virgins. I have been trying to prepare for our wedding night by making sure that I know as much as I can about the Church’s teachings on sex. I had thought that our pre-Cana instruction would cover sex at some point, but other than the usual NFP class we didn’t get anything about sex itself, about the act and what is or is not moral and so on. I had thought we still had a class or two left but I just found out that our classes are done, so I thought I would take my main question here.
If someone has an answer, please give a source for the information if possible.
So here it is: I gather that a man reaches climax more quickly than a woman in most cases. This is probably going to be especially true of the first time and for some time after that. And even when both spouses are used to sex, I gather that the woman usually has to work harder (or the man work harder for the woman) in order for her to experience a climax. Given this, I would like to know: is a man allowed to give a woman a climax AFTER he has experienced his own, but as part of the same sex act? Of course, a man probably loses his ability to give a woman stimulation in the usual way after he climaxes, so he probably would have to use a hand.
I can’t find a direct answer to this question. I bought of a book called Contemporary Moral Theology that several people on this forum mentioned. It’s really good. It says that a man must climax inside the woman, and that is what makes a marriage act, since that is how procreation occurs. The woman doesn’t have to climax for it to be a valid marriage act, but she is ENTITLED to a climax. The man is also allowed to delay his climax until the woman has climaxed multiple times, as long as he does climax inside the woman (or makes a reasonable effort to do so … the Church isn’t going to condemn people who have problems in this area). But obviously my question is about the opposite case: when the man climaxes before the woman has a chance to. The book doesn’t say anything about whether it is permitted to give the woman a climax with a different method than the usual.
My guess is that this is permitted, as long as it is in the context of the marriage act. At one point the book says, “Deliberate, intended orgasm is not permitted either to husband or wife except in the marriage act, OR IN IMMEDIATE CONJUNCTION [my emphasis] with the marriage act, so that, morally speaking, it is part of the marriage act.” Given that the man must ALWAYS climax inside the woman’s vagina (which EQUALS the marriage act) it seems that that passage is talking about the woman climaxing at times other than when the man does. It doesn’t specify that her climax can come afterwards, but it seems like a natural conclusion. The only thing I get hung up on is that it would require the use of a hand. I know that such stimulation is allowed as foreplay, but is it allowed to bring about an actual climax that way for the woman?
I really want my wife to experience a climax with every act. And I’d love for her to experience more than one! Climaxing at the same time is an ideal, but I don’t think most couples are able to do that regularly.
As a side note, I know that a lot of people think that the Church’s sex teachings are too legalistic, but reading this book it is kind of amazing how much is allowed. Foreplay of any kind, check. Stimulation during the day outside of the marriage act as long as it does not involve a climax, check. What the Church is clear about is what the sex act is, what it is for, and why it is that way. Everything else comes from those understandings. I think that people only think the Church is legalistic when they want to do something, like mutual masturbation or contraception, that is against the purpose of the marriage act.
Also reading this book, I am amazed at how clear the Church used to be in its teachings (the book came out in 1963). Some call that clarity legalism, but to me it is just plain clarity. I think we’ve lost a lot of that these days. Our pre-Cana classes were really general and kind of silly, as if they were afraid to say anything too specific in case someone disagreed with them. But if I wanted “do whatever you feel” I’d be a protestant!
Anyway, I don’t think that what I am asking about is against the purpose of the marriage act, but I just want to be sure.
Also, any other advice for a soon to be husband, especially about the wedding night, would be appreciated!
