H
HoneyBea
Guest
lol I don’t know I assumed it was a joke at least I hope so because it’s probably nasty
- Status
M
mommamaree
Guest
Many women absolutely do consider their husbands’ needs as important as their own needs. But I would again point out that the generalization that women need emotional intimacy and men need physical intimacy is too simple to be true. Women have physical needs and men have emotional ones. Christians really need to be honest and open about this. Wives will desire sexual relations with their husbands, and sex is not only about him or for him. It is about the joining of TWO bodies and the intimacy between TWO souls. Now men may be more or less chatty, depending upon their personalities, but emotional intimacy is not solely dependent upon speech. Being able to be silent with each other, or being allowed to have feelings that are not belittled, or being able to work side-by-side with someone, those are emotionally intimate moments, too. Besides that, the physical intimacy of sexual relations can enhance the emotional intimacy, and emotional intimacy can lead to the spouses making more opportunities for physical intimacy. It is all wrapped up in the same package: married love.
As an aside, I see it often asserted that women must have their emotional needs meet BEFORE being able to engage in sexual relations. But it feels like sexual relations is being viewed as something she allows if she is happy enough. But shouldn’t sexual relations actually BE A REASON for her own joy, too, and NOT just the reward for him making her happy? Maybe I have misunderstood others’ posts…But I see plenty of opportunity for emotional/physical intimacy in the meeting of each other’s needs. If sexual relations is approached slowly and tenderly, and not insistent upon one’s own timing or preferences, but is instead other-seeking, then there is no discernable order to whose needs have priority.
Husbands can entice their wives. Wives can entice their husbands.
Husbands can please their wives. Wives can please their husbands.
Each can be accepting of the other, with all the flaws of their bodies, and still say “I love you and you are sexy”.
Each can be accepting of the other’s fertility, and remember what the purpose of sex IS (hint: pleasure is a motivator, but not its purpose).
When I read threads like this, I often wonder if the couple in the OP were caught in the trap of believing the culture’s lies about sex, and if they were ever told the truth. Sex is not just a guy thing. If a woman believes that lie, how will she ever learn that she is meant to experience joy from and a longing for the marital embrace? If a man believes that lie, how will he ever slow down enough to not hurt her and to see that she enjoys it? Our minds are powerful things, and our perception becomes our reality. So we should always tell the truth, as Catholics, who possess the fullness of the faith and thousands of years of discussion on such matters.
T
The_Bucket
Guest
Quite. I think the Puritan history in America has had a nasty, nasty impact on society. Because we’re always either undersexed, oversexed or both. And today we’re all definitely both. Society is totally permissive of sex before marriage, homosexual acts, really anything between “consenting adults” and pornography is everywhere. At the same time sex is also treated as something women can use as leverage over men, as a way to get what they want… and there are plenty of microcultures within the country that treat any mention of sex as being vulgar. Plenty of such subcultures trying to shield even teenagers from understanding God’s gift of sexuality instead of addressing it frankly and respectfully from young ages.
It’s pretty messed up if you ask me and it leads to situations where “anything goes” or “nothing goes.” Either sex is everything or it’s nothing. Both are odious lies and twisted perversions of what God meant for husband and wife. Sex is not the be all and end all of life… but it should be very important for spouses. I mean, people who are literally physically incapable of sexual intercourse are not permitted to marry in the Church. It’s what separates spousal love from love between any other people.
L
LongingSoul
Guest
I have to disagree that the generalisations are a cultural lie. There are of course exceptions to every rule which means some women will get more out of sexual intimacy than the emotional intimacy outside of sex and vice versa with men. Biology is a powerful factor here though. Populating the world depends on men enjoying sex a lot. For women, we can conceive reading a book or watching telly or thinking about tomorrows menu or in our sleep. Our biology doesn’t require our enjoyment of sex to populate the world. It’s not just a cultural fact that men pursue prostitutes, porn and masturbation much more than women in pursuit of fullfilment in sexuality. And it’s not just a cultural fact that women drive the chick flick, chick lit and romance industries. It makes biological sense to respect the generalisation as having the answers and clues to problems in relationships.
Having a real relationship with our Creator, does demand a more highly evolved way of approaching relationships because we realise that strong family units is the premium place for nurturing the next generation of the species. Strong family units depends first on the mutual respect of the parents and the unitive being as important as the procreative. But I think that ‘unitive’ aspect is not as natural to the biology as the procreative and it has to be worked at by acknowledging the biological truth of males and females and putting effort into not so much overriding it… but enhancing it. If we aren’t acknowledging the biological truth of these things both males and females go into relationships expecting the other to want what they want rather than being open and listening and learning to have the attitude of mutual self giving.
M
mommamaree
Guest
Female genital anatomy and sexual function would support my point.
M
Maine52
Guest
I sincerely apologize if my post offended anyone. If it was judgmental or not Christian of me, then I am sorry. I would just ask that you graciously hear me out as I try to make a point.
The OP came on here giving a one-sided account of how his wife treats him horribly by not having sex with him. We know his side of the story and his side only. If his wife doesn’t want sex, there’s got to be a reason. Does he give a reason? No. He just goes on and on about how it’s all her fault and that he, the OP, is the only injured party in the situation. Perhaps she has needs of her own that need met. The OP entitles his post “Sex Starved Husband” as if his need for sex is the same as his need for food and water. Where is the emotional aspect? Yes, sex is an important part of marriage, and yes, he and his wife should be having sex, and yes never having sex is not how a marriage works. But the way the OP has worded his post implies that he sees his wife as someone who will “do a job” for him so that he can get his personal physical fulfillment. That’s not the way marriage works either. Both partners need to work to meet each other’s needs. If sex with his wife is as one-sided as this post, it is no wonder his wife does not want to have sex with him.
If the OP had come on here and said something along the lines of, “I love my wife very much and we have been to counseling and have been trying to work on this…but she still does not have sex with me and I am deeply hurt…” that would have been an ENTIRELY different story.
This is not the first thread like this on here. I can remember another thread in which a poster went on and on about how his wife treated him horribly, giving no details about what she did that was so horrible, and said she did not have enough sex with him. Said poster came on this thread and went on and on about how his wife and wives/women in general are so selfish to not have sex with their husbands, making no reference to the fact that women have feelings and needs that need to be met by their husbands in order for them to desire sexual intimacy. I can also recall a third poster, from a while ago (did not post on this thread), who said horrible things about his wife, complaining that she did not have enough sex with him because they “only” had relations twice a week.
This is a recurring topic.Whenever I hear about this topic, I, as a woman, feel degraded.
I’m sorry if I crossed any lines and offended anyone. That is not what I intended. Thank you for letting me speak my piece.
L
LongingSoul
Guest
Females of course have the capacity to enjoy sex. But the generalisation that it is not as high on the list of needs as it is for men is fairly universally accepted as being a biologically driven thing. There are of course exceptions to the general rule, but you possible find yoursel,f in conversation with friends that there is a more common experience of men experiencing a higher need in that department.
L
LongingSoul
Guest
Really I think your first gut instinct was accurate. The guy made an account, posted this one post, signed off one minute later and hasn’t showed up since. He’s obviously not about sharing in general. Just needed to dump his load and move on. It says a lot about him to my mind. Probably does that to his wife in their marital relations and she’s just had enough of it. Who knows.I sincerely apologize if my post offended anyone. If it was judgmental or not Christian of me, then I am sorry. I would just ask that you graciously hear me out as I try to make a point.
The OP came on here giving a one-sided account of how his wife treats him horribly by not having sex with him. We know his side of the story and his side only. If his wife doesn’t want sex, there’s got to be a reason. Does he give a reason? No. He just goes on and on about how it’s all her fault and that he, the OP, is the only injured party in the situation. Perhaps she has needs of her own that need met. The OP entitles his post “Sex Starved Husband” as if his need for sex is the same as his need for food and water. Where is the emotional aspect? Yes, sex is an important part of marriage, and yes, he and his wife should be having sex, and yes never having sex is not how a marriage works. But the way the OP has worded his post implies that he sees his wife as someone who will “do a job” for him so that he can get his personal physical fulfillment. That’s not the way marriage works either. Both partners need to work to meet each other’s needs. If sex with his wife is as one-sided as this post, it is no wonder his wife does not want to have sex with him.
If the OP had come on here and said something along the lines of, “I love my wife very much and we have been to counseling and have been trying to work on this…but she still does not have sex with me and I am deeply hurt…” that would have been an ENTIRELY different story.
This is not the first thread like this on here. I can remember another thread in which a poster went on and on about how his wife treated him horribly, giving no details about what she did that was so horrible, and said she did not have enough sex with him. Said poster came on this thread and went on and on about how his wife and wives/women in general are so selfish to not have sex with their husbands, making no reference to the fact that women have feelings and needs that need to be met by their husbands in order for them to desire sexual intimacy. I can also recall a third poster, from a while ago (did not post on this thread), who said horrible things about his wife, complaining that she did not have enough sex with him because they “only” had relations twice a week.
Whenever I hear about this topic, I, as a woman, feel degraded.
I’m sorry if I crossed any lines and offended anyone. That is not what I intended. Thank you for letting me speak my piece.
M
Marie5890
Guest
I noticed that, too.
And those were my thoughts.
T
The_Bucket
Guest
I take back what I said in another thread. This is the sickest burn ever on CAF.
F
fastenatingguy
Guest
**If the OP had come on here and said something along the lines of, “I love my wife very much and we have been to counseling and have been trying to work on this…but she still does not have sex with me and I am deeply hurt…” that would have been an ENTIRELY different story.
**
This was similar to my situation many years ago (14 to be exact). Except in our case my wife would not consent to counseling, so I went by myself. The psychologist and then the priest eventually said “you need to get her to attend…” but my wife responded to me that she had “replaced me” with time spent on the small business she started from home, and her friends, and sisters, etc.
When I confronted her with “why?” she responded “you’re never here, don’t make enough money, side with your parents instead of me” etc. In retrospect she had some good points, but only when I could see it from her perspective. So I said “ok I accept your premise, and take 80% of the responsibility for this situation.” Unfortunately, that did not resonate with her. She wanted me to take 100% of the blame.
Anyway, I drifted around as a sex deprived/starved husband for awhile. I found outlets for my sexual needs that I am/was not proud of. However, can’t deny that I paid for a woman’s company 25 or so times over three or four years. Believe it or not, it wasn’t just for sex, it was for companionship and tenderness. It was a convincing lie for me.
Thankfully, I went to confession once, then regularly, and over time I was able to get all of that behind me, with prayer and contemplation. I’ve abstained for nearly a decade. Sadly, my wife and I have no relationship other than her leaving the bills for me to pay. She left the Church when she replaced me, and only attends now for a few holidays.
I found renewed meaning in the Church and now spend most of my free time in endeavors related to catechesis, volunteering, etc. My chief regret is that my wife and I cannot reconcile and my love for her (as she behaves now) is waning. I pray for her and us and leave the rest to the Lord.
Sorry for the discourse but my point is that it is possible for there to be many versions/sides of the same story. There probably isn’t an objective truth for those that are immersed in it, only “him vs her” which makes it difficult to articulate everything–even one’s own perception. I know we’re both wrong, but it takes two to tango. I still pray for divine inspiration and intervention: For anything is possible with the Lord.
**
This was similar to my situation many years ago (14 to be exact). Except in our case my wife would not consent to counseling, so I went by myself. The psychologist and then the priest eventually said “you need to get her to attend…” but my wife responded to me that she had “replaced me” with time spent on the small business she started from home, and her friends, and sisters, etc.
When I confronted her with “why?” she responded “you’re never here, don’t make enough money, side with your parents instead of me” etc. In retrospect she had some good points, but only when I could see it from her perspective. So I said “ok I accept your premise, and take 80% of the responsibility for this situation.” Unfortunately, that did not resonate with her. She wanted me to take 100% of the blame.
Anyway, I drifted around as a sex deprived/starved husband for awhile. I found outlets for my sexual needs that I am/was not proud of. However, can’t deny that I paid for a woman’s company 25 or so times over three or four years. Believe it or not, it wasn’t just for sex, it was for companionship and tenderness. It was a convincing lie for me.
Thankfully, I went to confession once, then regularly, and over time I was able to get all of that behind me, with prayer and contemplation. I’ve abstained for nearly a decade. Sadly, my wife and I have no relationship other than her leaving the bills for me to pay. She left the Church when she replaced me, and only attends now for a few holidays.
I found renewed meaning in the Church and now spend most of my free time in endeavors related to catechesis, volunteering, etc. My chief regret is that my wife and I cannot reconcile and my love for her (as she behaves now) is waning. I pray for her and us and leave the rest to the Lord.
Sorry for the discourse but my point is that it is possible for there to be many versions/sides of the same story. There probably isn’t an objective truth for those that are immersed in it, only “him vs her” which makes it difficult to articulate everything–even one’s own perception. I know we’re both wrong, but it takes two to tango. I still pray for divine inspiration and intervention: For anything is possible with the Lord.
S
severus68
Guest
You certainly did not offend. Very well said in this post.I sincerely apologize if my post offended anyone. If it was judgmental or not Christian of me, then I am sorry. I would just ask that you graciously hear me out as I try to make a point.
The OP came on here giving a one-sided account of how his wife treats him horribly by not having sex with him. We know his side of the story and his side only. If his wife doesn’t want sex, there’s got to be a reason. Does he give a reason? No. He just goes on and on about how it’s all her fault and that he, the OP, is the only injured party in the situation. Perhaps she has needs of her own that need met. The OP entitles his post “Sex Starved Husband” as if his need for sex is the same as his need for food and water. Where is the emotional aspect? Yes, sex is an important part of marriage, and yes, he and his wife should be having sex, and yes never having sex is not how a marriage works. But the way the OP has worded his post implies that he sees his wife as someone who will “do a job” for him so that he can get his personal physical fulfillment. That’s not the way marriage works either. Both partners need to work to meet each other’s needs. If sex with his wife is as one-sided as this post, it is no wonder his wife does not want to have sex with him.
If the OP had come on here and said something along the lines of, “I love my wife very much and we have been to counseling and have been trying to work on this…but she still does not have sex with me and I am deeply hurt…” that would have been an ENTIRELY different story.
This is not the first thread like this on here. I can remember another thread in which a poster went on and on about how his wife treated him horribly, giving no details about what she did that was so horrible, and said she did not have enough sex with him. Said poster came on this thread and went on and on about how his wife and wives/women in general are so selfish to not have sex with their husbands, making no reference to the fact that women have feelings and needs that need to be met by their husbands in order for them to desire sexual intimacy. I can also recall a third poster, from a while ago (did not post on this thread), who said horrible things about his wife, complaining that she did not have enough sex with him because they “only” had relations twice a week.
Whenever I hear about this topic, I, as a woman, feel degraded.
I’m sorry if I crossed any lines and offended anyone. That is not what I intended. Thank you for letting me speak my piece.
Z
z_0101
Guest
Actually:
I’d post a screen shot, but why bother, anyone can go look at the public profile to confirm this. (I write this at 201-03-17 1035CST)
depressedhubby is probibly too put-off by some of the more unchartable posts that he may well be very afraid to make any posts in reply for fear of the Stake and Bonfire that appear to be set up and waiting for his return, oh, yes, after several of the members castrate him first - are they auctioning that privlage off or simply having a raffle with a good will donation for the tickets.
D
DAML72
Guest
I think that this difference is highly exaggerated. But if the man is giving nothing back (either in the bedroom, outside the bedroom, or both), then it’s definitely not going to be a priority.
T
TK421
Guest
Sort a kind a. In order to survive and thrive, human beings evolved requiring and desiring communities, not situations where males roamed around mating with women whenever she was fertile and then wandering off while the woman was pregnant for 9 months in the wild, had her kid on a rock, and then raised it on her own. This sort of scenario might happen in the 21st century, but it certainly didn’t happen in the 21st century BC. People are feeble and her chances of mortality in such a situation would be very high. Pretty much 100% unless she had a stable, easy food source. This instead meant men being in ongoing monogamous or polygamous relationships with women, but from the very beginning monogamy would have been encouraged due to the roughly equal ratio of the sexes. If a man has three wives, A) it means a high chance of an uncharitable pecking order among the wives, both from the husband and from each other, B) it means two other men in the village are getting shafted. Cultures where monogamy was the norm (if not totally universal) were the happier and more successful ones.
I’m not convinced men have an inherently more demanding sex drive than women, but psychologically, they are more ‘ambitious’ and readily accessible to it, because they’re not the ones that carry and birth the breastfeed the kid. Women are more conservative and protective of their bodies, and this is readily observed outside of the context of sex as well. They obsess about their health, their weight, their appearance, etc, in areas where many men couldn’t care less. There is a high demand for a woman to feel secure and loved before she is willing to tap into her sexuality. All people’s bodies are a temple to the Lord, but ontologically this is more obvious for the female (vulnerable creation) than for the male (not-vulnerable Creator)
On the flip side, you don’t say that the reason men don’t talk about their feelings is because they don’t have them. Men are built to psychologically safeguard such things and are very demanding before unraveling that aspect of them to other people. They need to be strong and unreadable. The feelings are there, but they are less accessible, perhaps even to themselves. This is why if you go through the history of the Family Section, you’ll find more female rants on emotional needs. Men don’t talk about it so much to other people. They find it uncomfortable, unless you’re me, because other men are weak but I have no feelings and am strong caveman, hence I have no need to talk about such petty things.
Another point is that you can see this is somewhat unraveling in modern culture with the breakdown of exclusive, permanent marriage and the advent of contraception. Female violent crime is on the rise, infidelity is soaring, effeminate men are up. The factors that guided prior behaviors in healthy marriages aren’t non-existent, but they have been weakened.
T
TK421
Guest
That reply was only suppose to be like 3 sentences. Oh well.
H
HoneyBea
Guest
This thread makes me laugh.
I have never seen sex made so complicated.
It’s a basic primal instinct, it’s not complicated, people make it complicated.
I have never seen sex made so complicated.
It’s a basic primal instinct, it’s not complicated, people make it complicated.
Z
Zzyzx_Road
Guest
He may need to work on other aspects of his life, he may need to work on issues of communication between him and his wife, he may need to work on his leadership. No guarantee of course that these actions on his part will help with his sex life. But he shouldn’t apologize for his desire to have sex.
F
fpt
Guest
The couple and each spouse have to identify *the deep reasons, the deep factors, the deep causes, the deep contexts of these conjugal sexual issues. *
Fear, stress, depression, lack of feelings, lack of romance, lack of tenderness, lack of signs of love, lack of communication, the issues of “modus operandi” of the marital act (issues on the Song of Songs, lack of conjugal erotism, lack of the Ars Erotica in the marital act), the frigidity, the impotence, low sex drive, low libido, lack of pleasure, lack of orgasm, the lack of hormones, the weak of will, the wrong philosophies, the wrong theologies, the wrong mentalities, the effects of professional activities, the tireness…etc.
Moral issues? Spiritual issues? Religious issues? Social issues? Mental issues? Psychological issues? Psychical issues? Affective issues? Physical issues? Physiological issues? Technical issues? Professional issues? Money Issues? Children issues? Educational issues? The causes can be numerous.
The couple should to visit a catholic medical general doctor, a catholic psychiatrist, a catholic gynecologist, a catholic obstetrician, a catholic nurse, a catholic midwife, a catholic psychologist, a catholic sexologist, a catholic philosopher, a catholic theologian, a catholic canon lawyer, catholic priests (catholic confessors and catholic spiritual directors), a catholic conjugal adviser, a catholic conjugal counseling, a catholic conjugal mediator.
Each member of couple has to make sacrifices and efforts, in positive and in negative.
Fear, stress, depression, lack of feelings, lack of romance, lack of tenderness, lack of signs of love, lack of communication, the issues of “modus operandi” of the marital act (issues on the Song of Songs, lack of conjugal erotism, lack of the Ars Erotica in the marital act), the frigidity, the impotence, low sex drive, low libido, lack of pleasure, lack of orgasm, the lack of hormones, the weak of will, the wrong philosophies, the wrong theologies, the wrong mentalities, the effects of professional activities, the tireness…etc.
Moral issues? Spiritual issues? Religious issues? Social issues? Mental issues? Psychological issues? Psychical issues? Affective issues? Physical issues? Physiological issues? Technical issues? Professional issues? Money Issues? Children issues? Educational issues? The causes can be numerous.
The couple should to visit a catholic medical general doctor, a catholic psychiatrist, a catholic gynecologist, a catholic obstetrician, a catholic nurse, a catholic midwife, a catholic psychologist, a catholic sexologist, a catholic philosopher, a catholic theologian, a catholic canon lawyer, catholic priests (catholic confessors and catholic spiritual directors), a catholic conjugal adviser, a catholic conjugal counseling, a catholic conjugal mediator.
Each member of couple has to make sacrifices and efforts, in positive and in negative.
M
mommamaree
Guest
That was an excellent reply.
- Status