Sex today and in the past

[dominikus28]

I have been wondering about why families were so big, 5 children or more, in the past and now there are only 1 or 2 mostly. Most people say that its because of contraception, but Catholic families have also gotten smaller. The question is, were families big before because of the lack of contraception or because they wanted/need to have alot of kids? Most people ask: ‘how can you resist the temptation not to have sex?’ What is it that made big families then and small families now? Contraception or the need for big familes or can people take more temptation these day?

 

[JimG]

Actually, 5 kids in a family used to be considered rather average. Twelve kids was a large family.

Keep in mind that up until 1930, every Protestant denomination had pretty much the same stance about artificial contraception as did the Catholic Church. The Anglican Lambeth Conference in 1930 was the first to break with common Protestant and Catholic tradition, saying at that time that contraception could be allowed within marriage for rare and serious reasons.

 

[NewUlm1976_2000]

I have been wondering about why families were so big, 5 children or more, in the past and now there are only 1 or 2 mostly. Most people say that its because of contraception, but Catholic families have also gotten smaller. The question is, were families big before because of the lack of contraception or because they wanted/need to have alot of kids? Most people ask: ‘how can you resist the temptation not to have sex?’ What is it that made big families then and small families now? Contraception or the need for big familes or can people take more temptation these day?

Some of it is families looking at the real monetary costs of raising each child. Funds are limited and you can only prepare so much for school and college. Also parents want to raise all the children themselves. If you get to 5+ you end up with the older kids taking care of the younger kids.

Also, in the past not every child was expected to survive at or after birth (e.g. have 5 to 8 but only 2 to 5 grow to adulthood). Nowadays the medical field has drastically reduced those rates so most children are expected to survive if they can receive the appropriate medical care.

 

[Jack_245814]

Because far less Catholic families heed the ban on contraception than used to; sad but true.

My grandparents had seven children and all of their kids had 5 - 8 kids; that was just the norm at one time.

 

[aggiecatholic05]

also it was a more agragarian society. kids equaled farm hands. both of my grandparents were from families of over 12 kids and on farms. not the only reason but it was part.

 

[Mike_Dye]

As much as it disturbs me I believe that overwhelmingly Catholic couples are ignorant of Church teaching on contraception, even more sadly if they are aware, they think that they have the final decision. That is why there is a decline in Catholic family population.

 

[chicago]

People tend to marry and start families later in life nowadays, also. At one time, if you weren’t married by 24 you were practically considered an “old maid.” Now if you marry before 27, you’re likely considered “too young.”

Also, when people tended to stay closer together with extended family, it worked out better for having others around to help guide the young moms and assist with children. And young parents had a support system as they got started out in life. Now, with people often more on their own (and with significant debt at an early age), it adds a lot of extra pressures and challenges.

 

[Sam_Maloney]

I don’t think it’s a good idea to sit in Church, count the kiddies, and speculate on what the couples are doing to keep the numbers down. It’s none of our business.

In terms of trends, though: human fertility is dropping. Today’s ‘average’ sperm count would have been considered sub-par a hundred years ago, and scientists aren’t sure why. Women are marrying later, and most STDs can lead to lowered fertility.

There are also better tools for those practicing NFP…

 

[Calliso]

Well not everyone had a big family back then, but there were definately more that did it seems. One reason was likely that many lived on farms. Back before gasoline powered machinery farm work took a lot of people. Not to mention before things like antibiotics and other modern health care was invented/discovered many people died in early childhood. Now adays much less people though live on farms and with techology while farm work is still hard it is probably nothiong compared to what it was before all that techology was invented. Not to mention with health care nowadays if you give birth to 6 kids there is a good chance all of them will make it to adulthood. But with things like health care and other things now having kids is also much much more expensive nowadays and there isn;t quite the benefit or even need now to having alot of kids now.

 

[a_cermak]

One of the big reasons most of my co-workers state for not having more children is college costs. Imagine trying to save the money to put 5 children through college! The economy in the US has changed in that it used to possible for a person to do well (have a house, a car, raise a few children) even if they did not have a college degree. At this point in time, that’s not as easy as it was back then.

Add to that the fact that most people choose their spouse to have educational levels similar to themselves, and you wind up with the people who have college degrees having a much better chance to stay in the middle class than their non-degree holding peers.

People who have college degrees tend to value them and want their children to have them as well, so they would naturally have less children.

 

[tvdxer]

I have been wondering about why families were so big, 5 children or more, in the past and now there are only 1 or 2 mostly. Most people say that its because of contraception, but Catholic families have also gotten smaller. The question is, were families big before because of the lack of contraception or because they wanted/need to have alot of kids? Most people ask: ‘how can you resist the temptation not to have sex?’ What is it that made big families then and small families now? Contraception or the need for big familes or can people take more temptation these day?

Contraception is often the method used to keep families small, but it’s certainly not the only factor. The two biggest ones I see:

People today tend to marry later than they did in the (recent) past. It used to be that a typical bride was perhaps 19 and her groom 21. This is obviously no longer the case, with the averages being more like 26.

The population used to be far more rural, and by implication, agricultural. More children meant more hands on the farm. Even in the cities, children could go to work at young ages and bring home wages for their families. Having several children was an economic benefit, not a hardship. This is, of course, no longer the case for most.

 

[Jennifer_J]

One of the big reasons most of my co-workers state for not having more children is college costs. Imagine trying to save the money to put 5 children through college! The economy in the US has changed in that it used to possible for a person to do well (have a house, a car, raise a few children) even if they did not have a college degree. At this point in time, that’s not as easy as it was back then.

Add to that the fact that most people choose their spouse to have educational levels similar to themselves, and you wind up with the people who have college degrees having a much better chance to stay in the middle class than their non-degree holding peers.

People who have college degrees tend to value them and want their children to have them as well, so they would naturally have less children.

large families do no equal less education…It does often equal the children actually having to WORK for that education, instead of having it handed to them. From what I know, actually working for that education means children appreciate it more, focus on studying more, and have a major they like AND is functional…

 

[tvdxer]

large families do no equal less education…It does often equal the children actually having to WORK for that education, instead of having it handed to them. From what I know, actually working for that education means children appreciate it more, focus on studying more, and have a major they like AND is functional…

Larger families also mean more government aid for a child’s college education.

 

[mercyfalling]

What is it that made big families then and small families now? Contraception or the need for big familes or can people take more temptation these day?

Since when is making love within marriage a temptation? As a couple we sometimes have used NFP to avoid pregnancy, and sometimes the tension was just too great and we threw it to the wind and enjoyed ourselves anyway. It never occurred to me to view this as giving into temptation. We were made to love each other with our bodies, and it’s a wonderful thing. We figured God loves babies, we love each other, let’s cooperate with that natural plan of his. It might not be the most prudent thing to do, but I have never seen it as wrong.

 

[chevalier]

People tend to marry and start families later in life nowadays, also. At one time, if you weren’t married by 24 you were practically considered an “old maid.” Now if you marry before 27, you’re likely considered “too young.”

Actually, according to my former prof, in the customary practice of canon law, 26 and single counts as difficulties in finding a partner, which means it should be easier to get a dispensation that depends on it (e.g. cousins).

Also, when people tended to stay closer together with extended family, it worked out better for having others around to help guide the young moms and assist with children. And young parents had a support system as they got started out in life. Now, with people often more on their own (and with significant debt at an early age), it adds a lot of extra pressures and challenges.

A large family is a good thing, but I don’t think many people these days are prepared to have 5 or 7 children. Especially those who live in small flats in cities, say two rooms apartments, 50 square metres total. A 5-7 children family wouldn’t even fit beds there. I had the experience of living in a 3 children family in such a flat and the crowd was driving everyone insane. When we bought the adjacent flat, everyone suddenly became saner and the lots of inside fighting stopped.

I imagine God doesn’t want us to live in a palace with a golden limo and a kid or two to succeed to the “throne”, but I don’t think that a person prepared to handle 3-4 kids but not really 5-7 is called to be single. Even in utilitarian terms, more brothers and sisters to play with are better than more toys and more money for each, but people have to sleep and study somewhere and they need privacy. This doesn’t necessarily not qualify as a good enough reason for NFP in my view. I don’t think theologians should try and mandate things in numbers. I think charity requires a more considerate, milder approach, although I don’t wish to sound like a relativist here.

 

[lovemysix]

I think it’s because people have a choice nowadays. Although there has always been contraception, it was not that widely available, at least to the average “decent” family, until this century. The only way to limit your family size was to abstain. And I don’t think that worked too well for most couples.

Don’t get me wrong, I LOVE my large family. But I think that the minute the general public was able to acquire the means to control their family size, they devoured it. I rather believe that many parents were not what WE would call happy raising those huge families back in day, and their children saw that and wanted something different for themselves.

And sure, there’s some selfishness involved with some people, I’m sure. We’re all human. But I also think a lot of people just genuinely felt that the negatives of a large family outweighed the positives for THEM.

Thankfully, I do think the pendulum is swinging and that more couples are open to the idea of 3,4, or more children. I’ve been struck by how many mothers I’ve met lately who have 4 or 5 kids, and most of these were not doing it by default because they have a problem with ABC. They just genuinely wanted a larger-size family experience. And didn’t give a hoot what society thought of it.

I do also think that marrying later, declining fertility (probably due to toxins in our environment), and such all play a part. But I think by far the biggest factor is that people simply do not want to have to cope with the difficulties that they perceive to be involved in having a large number of children. It’s not what they feel is ideal for them as far as the structure of their family goes and/or as far as what they can reasonably handle and still maintain a livable family dynamic in which everybody feels some degree of sanity.

Just my .02.
Lauren

 

[Jennifer_J]

Larger families also mean more government aid for a child’s college education.

And those families pay taxes, what’s your point? A large family also offers MORE workers in the future, enlarging the tax base. btw, it’s okay for a family of 1, 2 or 3 to use that gov’t aid, but not the family of 6? Wow…

 

[Catholic_89]

Hello,
I think that it is because of slipping morals and standards that all this has happened.

1. People marry later : Well this is partly because most don’t care about getting married earlier. Marriage has been devaluated, and many young people now just cohabitate. Society has also made it very hard for an 18 year old for example to support themselves, where as back then this would be possible.
2. Attitude towards children: Unfortunately, even for some Catholics, the attitude towards children is appauling. They see children as burdens, as things that will drive you nuts. Even if some people don’t hold this extreme, many feel like it would greatly inconvenience them, and so keep children to the minimal. Again, society hasn’t exactly helped with the living costs of having so many…but I am sure it is possible.
3. Contraception: I am only a student, but I am starting to see why contraception can seem appealing. I mean when a couple is scared about what their future is because of maybe money or inexperience, it is so easy to turn to such an immoral thing. We need to trust in God. Whatever happened to good old faith that God would never give you more than you can handle? Or what about some discipline to abstain for a little while practising NFP.

Now I am only 19, but I hope to be married to my girlfriend after my I graduate from the undergraduate program. I am naturally worried about how to support a family at an early age, but my reasonig is this. If it is God’s will for me to be married, and that is my vocation, and vocations are where we are happiest, why am I going to prolong the wait for something that will bring happiness, because of insecurities about being ready (Now of course one actually has to be decently prepared). Having said that, I would like to have many kids. As many as God will send. Hopefully at least 5. It might seem crazy in today’s age, but I would see each one as a blessing and a gift from God.

 

[tvdxer]

And those families pay taxes, what’s your point? A large family also offers MORE workers in the future, enlarging the tax base. btw, it’s okay for a family of 1, 2 or 3 to use that gov’t aid, but not the family of 6? Wow…

Of course it is. All I was saying is that a child from a family of 6 kids is far more likely to get guidelines for generous government financial aid than a child from a family of 2 kids with the same income.

 

[tvdxer]

Hello,
I think that it is because of slipping morals and standards that all this has happened.

A lot of people on these forums like to blame everything on “slipping morals” and similar moralistic causes while ignoring their sociological basis.

1. People marry later : Well this is partly because most don’t care about getting married earlier. Marriage has been devaluated, and many young people now just cohabitate. Society has also made it very hard for an 18 year old for example to support themselves, where as back then this would be possible.

We live in a country with a comfortable standard of living and a very high life expectancy compared to earlier periods. Also, most jobs today demand an educated workforce, often with a B.A. or higher qualification. In addition, the lack of a necessity to start working and support oneself immediately leads many to extend their adolescence until their mid-20s or so.

As for cohabitation, I am also currently a college student (22 years old), and not many people I know cohabitate yet. This seems to be more common with more established couples planning on marriage.

1. Attitude towards children: Unfortunately, even for some Catholics, the attitude towards children is appauling. They see children as burdens, as things that will drive you nuts. Even if some people don’t hold this extreme, many feel like it would greatly inconvenience them, and so keep children to the minimal. Again, society hasn’t exactly helped with the living costs of having so many…but I am sure it is possible.

In economics, children are considered an “inferior good”. That might sound harsh, but all it means is that the more wealth people possess, the less demand they have for children. However, very few people I know want to be DINK’s (Double Income No - Kids); most people want 2 or 3 kids. Our society really isn’t ideally designed for larger families.

1. Contraception: I am only a student, but I am starting to see why contraception can seem appealing. I mean when a couple is scared about what their future is because of maybe money or inexperience, it is so easy to turn to such an immoral thing. We need to trust in God. Whatever happened to good old faith that God would never give you more than you can handle? Or what about some discipline to abstain for a little while practising NFP.

The problem is most people don’t see contraception as a sin. Outside the Catholic Church, there is very official little resistance to it. If anything, it’s seen as virtuous - “responsibility” for limiting your family size. And Catholics inside the church are still members of American (or Canadian, or British, or …) society, and are just as likely to be influenced by the mores of those around them as those of the church.

As for NFP, it’s not particularly well known, with more convenient birth control methods available.