Sex today and in the past

[edwest2]

Artificial birth control is a bad thing. Who decides when you have sex?

When the Church published Humani Generis in 1968, the Pope told Catholics and anybody willing to listen: you will find it easier to cheat on your spouse if you go this route. Instead of responsible consideration for what sex is, you’ll treat it selfishly. Your pleasure will be the primary concern, along with your convenience. Life is short, you might think, so have lots of sex and babies – how inconvenient. To some, it is beyond imagination how any couple could handle raising two or more kids.

It is a sign of maturity and faith, to make a commitment and live it out, through good times and bad. No, the past wasn’t perfect but it was better prior to 1968, and there were fewer STDs (called Venereal Disease during the time).

Sex today is about pleasure first without much thought for responsibility. It shouldn’t be that way. Who decides when you have sex?

Peace,
Ed

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Until the mid 1850s or so, the rate of maternal mortality in childbed from puerperal fever ALONE was astounding–in many countries it was as high as 30 percent. (This was due to lack of handwashing, believe it or not, as proven by Dr. Ignaz Semmelweis). Add on other things such as hemorrhages (no transfusions available then), poor maternal health to begin with, diseases like consumption and tuberculosis, the fact that the average woman’s life expectancy if she were ‘middle’ class was about age 40, and that for poorer women, even in ‘industrial’ countries, it was about 25. . .then factor in for the men wars, disease, conscription, prison (sent to Australia for 7 years for stealing a loaf of bread was not uncommon), things like ‘miners’ lung etc. --and seeing people having larger families becomes more understandable.

Child mortality was likewise high. . .in Colonial times, in a family of 10 children one was lucky to raise 2 or 3 to adulthood. By the mid 19th century, you might raise 5 or 6. . .but even so, those adults would still have barely 2 decades remaining to them --by the time your children were adults you would probably be dead yourself. No 40 hour work weeks with vacations and benefits, either.

But children were seen more as gifts and blessings by most (in contrast to today when they are apparently seen as gifts and blessings by only FEW).

When you knew that you and your spouse had ‘half’ the lifetime that we would have today, and you’d be lucky if you raised 1/3 of the children you would have, both your spouse and your children were more precious and less taken for granted than apparently they are today.

 

[tvdxer]

Until the mid 1850s or so, the rate of maternal mortality in childbed from puerperal fever ALONE was astounding–in many countries it was as high as 30 percent. (This was due to lack of handwashing, believe it or not, as proven by Dr. Ignaz Semmelweis). Add on other things such as hemorrhages (no transfusions available then), poor maternal health to begin with, diseases like consumption and tuberculosis, the fact that the average woman’s life expectancy if she were ‘middle’ class was about age 40, and that for poorer women, even in ‘industrial’ countries, it was about 25. . .then factor in for the men wars, disease, conscription, prison (sent to Australia for 7 years for stealing a loaf of bread was not uncommon), things like ‘miners’ lung etc. --and seeing people having larger families becomes more understandable.

Child mortality was likewise high. . .in Colonial times, in a family of 10 children one was lucky to raise 2 or 3 to adulthood. By the mid 19th century, you might raise 5 or 6. . .but even so, those adults would still have barely 2 decades remaining to them --by the time your children were adults you would probably be dead yourself. No 40 hour work weeks with vacations and benefits, either.

But children were seen more as gifts and blessings by most (in contrast to today when they are apparently seen as gifts and blessings by only FEW).

When you knew that you and your spouse had ‘half’ the lifetime that we would have today, and you’d be lucky if you raised 1/3 of the children you would have, both your spouse and your children were more precious and less taken for granted than apparently they are today.

Good point in the first part of your posting. Child mortality was indeed very high until fairly recent times. I think I read that the majority of children born did not even make it until 5! (at least in some places)

I think it’s erroneous, however, to assert that children are today “seen as gifts and blessings by only FEW”. I’m completely against contraception and sterilization, but I have a hard time imagining the majority of couples who use it as seeing their 2 or 3 children as not being “gifts” and “blessings”. Speaking for the U.S., we aren’t a country of DINKs, and we’re quite natalist compared to the rest of the West. After all, many couples resort to immoral techniques (IVF, AIS, etc.) to HAVE children, just as they do so to avoid them.

 

[Antrim]

Some very interesting discussions on here.
One of them about not having a big enough house caught my Eye. The reason being I grew up in Ireland in a Cottage that had three Bedrooms and a Kitchen and there was ten in the house. My grandparents, My Parents an Aunt and five of us and we did fine. We managed.
A cousin of my father’s had sixteen. When they have a Wedding in the family they stop inviting at about 250 people. They used to have a relative get together once a year. I dont know if they still have it but that was about 400 people.
I just think that is great and a lot of fun.
One time I was talking to a young man and he wondered why we had ten children and I told him I was a very rich man because of it but he did not understand.
When we get together now with Son’s in law, Daughter’s in Law and the Grandchildren it is great We have a great time.

Antrim

 

[Just_wondering]

Some very interesting discussions on here.
One of them about not having a big enough house caught my Eye. The reason being I grew up in Ireland in a Cottage that had three Bedrooms and a Kitchen and there was ten in the house. My grandparents, My Parents an Aunt and five of us and we did fine. We managed.

I was going to make the same comment, although I didn’t grow up in a small house. My family of ten to twelve (depending on which cousins were living with us) had enough rooms for most of us to have our own room, but my boyfriend, one of eight kids in his family (plus three adopted after he left home) grew up in a two-room house that’s approximately the size of my very small studio apartment (nicknamed my prison cell by those North Americans who visit it).

When I visited his hometown and met his family, twelve of us shared two rooms (the bedroom and the living room/kitchen) and it didn’t feel cramped at all, honestly. We just rolled out the mattresses on the floor when we were tired, and the rest of the time most of the people were out on the porch or otherwise hanging out in the neighbourhood. It did amaze me that his parents managed to conceive 8 children when they shared a room and even a bed with the rest of them, but I assume they just sent the kids to the store or arranged romantic moments for while the kids were at school or something!

If people are having fewer children because of space issues at home, it’s more because they’re spoiled by our modern taste for open spaces than because they truly need more room.

 

[LJN21]

I think the statement that only a children being a blessing, so long as there is just a few, is very true. All it takes is to be a mother of more than a few to see it. First couple kids and everyone is excited and congratulatory, after the social norm the comments start. “Your finished right?” “Your going to have any more?” “You know how that happens right?” This happens even in Catholic circles. I had a woman after Mass Sunday I’d not seen in a while say loudly as can be, “Your pregnant again!”

 

[Antrim]

I have had different thoughts on this family size thing over the years. One was in a case where say they have two children and there is a tragedy and they lose one or maybe both and they are to old to have any more. I would think that has to be a terrible feeling and a very lonely one as well.
I think it is very foolish to worry about an unborn childs College Education since we dont know what the future holds.
I saw this posted in work years ago and it went like this.
I never saw a Brinks Truck at a Funeral Procession.
Today was tomorrow yesterday.
Those who live in the future and deney themselves the joys of the present are as foolish as those who live in the past.
Back about thirty to forty years ago they were pluging on T V to get a good job get a good education and I remember this old man say if every one goes to College who is going to do the work.
There must have been a shortage in the workforce because the education thing stopped and they were telling people to go learn to drive Tractor Trailer.
I think another thing people should think about is that a lot of people with a College Education end up fliping Burgers because they cant find a good job after spending all that money for an Education
When my wife got very Ill a few years ago and she was not given long to live. I thanked God every day for having all my children around me. She did survive.

Antrim

 

[LeroyCRHP]

We only have 3 and clearly looking back I wish we had 6-10! Children are such a blessing.

We worried about college expenses, married “later” at 26 and 29, having a bedroom for each kid and really stupid stuff. Sounds almost like a Seinfeld skit.

At 48 looking back, have all the kids you can, plan, but don’t worry about anything. There are several people at our church with 8-12 kids and they do great. One even homeschools! I have yet to hear a person seriously say they wanted fewer kids but many times wish they had more. The other missing factor is so many people move away from family and lose the support, guidance and interaction with their family. People make different life decisions when they live near parents than if they move 1000 miles away.

 

[Antrim]

L J N 21

I know exactly what you mean. Every time we were having a new baby some of the neighbours would give us a hard time. Somehow I think we are the happiest today.
I remember one neighbour was having their third and she was worried about how she was going to cope. We had five or six by that time and we just laughed thinking it is no big deal.

God Bless you and your family.

Antrim