Sex - Unity and Procreation

[tafan2]

To me, one of the best arguments for it being both unitive and procreative is that we are to give ourselves fully to our spouse, likewise we are to accept the gift fully.
One cannot say, I am giving you everything except my fertility. Nor can in say, I want all of you, except your fertility. Take away the fertility, and it’s not unitive. We are no longer giving ourselves completely to our spouse.

 

[Ron_Conte]

Taking away fertility makes the marital act non-procreative. It harms the unitive meaning, but does not extinguish it. Similarly, non-marital sex can still be unitive and procreative, though the deprivation of the marital meaning harms the unitive and procreative ends.

The give yourself fully argument seems to propose an ideal, whereas the deliberate deprivation of the procreative end is inherently a grave sin.

 

[tafan2]

Not disagreeing with anything you say. My argument is admittedly non-technical and I would not say it’s complete. But it is simple, and for many married couples it seems like it can help in the understanding of the church’s teaching.

 

[Ron_Conte]

Yes, tafan2, good point.

 

[Elizabeth3]

Well … yes. I don’t want to defy or wave away the Church or her teaching, but to my uninstructed ears that sounds a lot like “you aren’t giving your whole self if you avoid kissing your wife while you have a cold.” Now, I suppose that’s “holding back a part of your self” … but very defensibly so in the situational context!

Well…no. One’s fertility is a very different thing than a cold. A cold isn’t an integral part of yourself. If you read my 2nd paragraph you would see that I showed that there are different modes of giving so to speak. Not kissing your wife when you have a cold is giving of yourself but in a very different way. You are self-sacrificially not kissing your wife in order to do a service of good-will towards her in avoiding making her sick.

 

[Le_Cracquere]

One’s fertility is a very different thing than a cold. A cold isn’t an integral part of yourself.

Well, I don’t know. A cold is simply one’s immune system doing its thing … and the immune system is a fundamental part of oneself.

You are self-sacrificially not kissing your wife in order to do a service of good-will towards her in avoiding making her sick.

Well, precisely! And though I defer to the Church’s teaching on the subject, I’m reduced to taking it on faith … because the parallels seem exact, to me at least.

 

[Elizabeth3]

A cold is simply one’s immune system doing its thing … and the immune system is a fundamental part of oneself.

A cold is your immune system’s response to a virus you are carrying. It’s not your immune system that you would hold back from your wife when kissing her, it’s the possibility of passing the virus to her, which is not a part of you.

the parallels seem exact, to me at least.

How is holding back from giving a virus to your wife (which is not a part of you but you’re carrying it) the same as holding back your fertility in the form of contraception (sperm or egg)? Hardly an exact parallel.

 

[Le_Cracquere]

How is holding back from giving a virus to your wife (which is not a part of you but you’re carrying it) the same as holding back your fertility in the form of contraception (sperm or egg)? Hardly an exact parallel.

Well, I’d say “close enough for the proverbial government work,” at least. Granted, you & I very likely disagree on the benefits and inherent goodness of “fertility” … or rather, since I don’t wish to be disobedient to the Church’s teachings on the subject, let’s say they’re rather more puzzling to me than to you.