Sex with Transgender a sin?

[Truthstalker]

religioustolerance.org/transsexu15.htm

Thanks, thistle.

This is interesting but goes into things off thread rather quickly. I seem to have a satisfactory understanding of where the Catholic Church is at on this.

I am concerned about what seems to be a lack of compassion and hope, short of a miracle, for these mentally ill people, “the least of these”. If we look around for who the lepers are in our society, they quickly come to mind. Aside from telling them to bear their cross, what hope is there for them? Surgery is wrong and counsel is unavailing. Telling them to go ahead and kill themselves if they want - but that is also wrong -is not exactly optimal. That is off thread, but is my reaction. There should be a valid solution short of a miracle.

 

[CopticChristian]

You’re talking about intersex conditions. Don’t confuse transgender and intersex issues. This thread is specifically concerned with having sex with transgendered individuals, not intersex.

Truth,

Truth…

Man/XY/…believes/wants/thinks HE is a woman is a man…the notion of transgender exists in the imagination of a man.

 

[Truthstalker]

Truth,

Truth…

Man/XY/…believes/wants/thinks HE is a woman is a man…the notion of transgender exists in the imagination of a man.

We could argue whether the sky is typically blue, but I would say that is off-topic. So is the whole thing of the validity of the transgender condition. I think we can agree that there are people who insist they are of the opposite sex. I suspect out there somewhere is someone who insists he is a porcupine, or Norwegian (though Mexican) or a Klingon. The validity of their belief does not alter the existence of their belief.

I will go further, and raise the possibility that gender ID is fixed before birth, and that it is not inconceivable that there can be a birth defect in which a brain is hardwired to behave according to the norms of the opposite sex. Such a person has a medical condition and it is not curable surgically. I have not idea how to help them and they seem to be in a great deal of pain.

 

[CopticChristian]

We could argue whether the sky is typically blue, but I would say that is off-topic. So is the whole thing of the validity of the transgender condition. I think we can agree that there are people who insist they are of the opposite sex. I suspect out there somewhere is someone who insists he is a porcupine, or Norwegian (though Mexican) or a Klingon. The validity of their belief does not alter the existence of their belief.

I will go further, and raise the possibility that gender ID is fixed before birth, and that it is not inconceivable that there can be a birth defect in which a brain is hardwired to behave according to the norms of the opposite sex. Such a person has a medical condition and it is not curable surgically. I have not idea how to help them and they seem to be in a great deal of pain.

Truth,

I would argue as a Physician that they have no medical condition and that as you believe, so you think and as you think so you act.

 

[april32010]

religioustolerance.org/transsexu15.htm

This second approach is forbidden by the Roman Catholic Church, because of their system of morality, ironically called the “Culture of Life.”

 

[fkjuliano]

Quote:
This second approach "gender reassignment] is forbidden by the Roman Catholic Church, because of their system of morality, ironically called the “Culture of Life.”

The only irony in this garbage is that the site is called “religioustolerance.org”. It should be called “freaklifestyletoleranceandreligiousbigotry.org”

 

[CrimsonThorn]

What exactly makes a male, male, or a female, female?

What about somebody born with androgen insensitivity that has XY chromosomes but grows up with a female body? (plenty of those people exist, they are sterile females usually). Are you going to insist they never marry?

What about intersex people, people that do not have specificly male or female genitals? \

The people you describe in these situations are typically ASEXUAL.

 

[Truthstalker]

Truth,

I would argue as a Physician that they have no medical condition and that as you believe, so you think and as you think so you act.

You err greatly if you are assuming I am an advocate for transgendering. I am very concerned about the people caught up in this.

I think this thread has run its course.

Trudi

 

[CopticChristian]

You err greatly if you are assuming I am an advocate for transgendering. I am very concerned about the people caught up in this.

I think this thread has run its course.

Trudi

Truth,

I assume nothing. You said you would argue for something and I said I would not based on my knowledge, training and experience. You inferred something I did not state.

 

[jimmy]

Is sex with a transgender a sin? (male to female)

Knowing she was a transgender and still having her male part below but everything else is female does it make it a sin if a person did?

I’ve heard people say technically they’re born with male features but in the inside they’re females and make a life decision on having sex change.

Which is why I’m really curious.

What is the difference between this and homosexuality? Even if the person didn’t have the male parts, it is still a man even if he calls himself joan now. But he still has the parts, so how can you call it a she? I don’t see why any guy would do this unless he was gay.

On a similar note. I once saw a person on tv who had surgery on his face, and had tattoos to make himself like a tiger. Is it now proper to identify him as a tiger? Did he cease to be human, and become a tiger? I also saw a similar situation where a guy had surgery to have horns put on his head and tattoos so he would look like a demon. Is he now a demon instead of human? There are other similar cases. The point though is; can I change what I am simply by making an act of the will (even if it is a pathetic act that can’t produce the desired effect)? Could I wake up one morning and think, “I feel like a lion trapped in a mans body, therefore I am now going to call myself mufasa and everyone must recognize that I am a lion”? Does it make it so?

 

[CopticChristian]

What is the difference between this and homosexuality? Even if the person didn’t have the male parts, it is still a man even if he calls himself joan now. But he still has the parts, so how can you call it a she? I don’t see why any guy would do this unless he was gay.

On a similar note. I once saw a person on tv who had surgery on his face, and had tattoos to make himself like a tiger. Is it now proper to identify him as a tiger? Did he cease to be human, and become a tiger? I also saw a similar situation where a guy had surgery to have horns put on his head and tattoos so he would look like a demon. Is he now a demon instead of human? There are other similar cases. The point though is; can I change what I am simply by making an act of the will (even if it is a pathetic act that can’t produce the desired effect)? Could I wake up one morning and think, “I feel like a lion trapped in a mans body, therefore I am now going to call myself mufasa and everyone must recognize that I am a lion”? Does it make it so?

Jimmy,

This is the solution to this thinking that does not require a Phd to figure out. A man is a man. A man thinking, saying, acting like a woman is a man…this is something that was figured out by the record industry long ago…

The Kinks sang Lola…

I met her in a club down in old Soho
Where you drink champagne and it tastes just like cherry-cola [LP version: Coca-Cola]
See-oh-el-aye cola
She walked up to me and she asked me to dance
I asked her her name and in a dark brown voice she said Lola
El-oh-el-aye Lola la-la-la-la Lola

Well I’m not the world’s most physical guy
But when she squeezed me tight she nearly broke my spine
Oh my Lola la-la-la-la Lola
Well I’m not dumb but I can’t understand
Why she walked like a woman and talked like a manOh my Lola la-la-la-la Lola la-la-la-la Lola

Well we drank champagne and danced all night
Under electric candlelight
She picked me up and sat me on her knee
And said dear boy won’t you come home with me
Well I’m not the world’s most passionate guy
But when I looked in her eyes well I almost fell for my Lola
La-la-la-la Lola la-la-la-la Lola
Lola la-la-la-la Lola la-la-la-la Lola
I pushed her away
I walked to the door
I fell to the floor
I got down on my knees
Then I looked at her and she at me

Well that’s the way that I want it to stay
And I always want it to be that way for my Lola
La-la-la-la Lola
Girls will be boys and boys will be girls
It’s a mixed up muddled up shook up world except for LolaLa-la-la-la Lola

Well I left home just a week before
And I’d never ever kissed a woman before
But Lola smiled and took me by the hand
And said dear boy I’m gonna make you a man

Well I’m not the world’s most masculine man
But I know what I am and I’m glad I’m a man
And so is LolaLa-la-la-la Lola la-la-la-la Lola
Lola la-la-la-la Lola la-la-la-la Lola

That is just the way it is…:bigyikes:

 

[Arizona_Mike]

Chromosomes don’t change. One remains biologically a man even if castrated and female hormones are taken to change secondary sexual characteristics.

The soul does not change. Our souls have gender, and we remain male or female.

Sex with a “transgendered” person is a homosexual act.

 

[OraLabora]

It sounds like you are talking about a biological male, in terms of chromosomes, who would prefer to be a female.

If I understand you correctly, then the answer would be that it is a sin for two reasons.

1. This person is not married to a female. If I am mistaken about that, then sex is OK with his wife.
2. This person cannot bear a child. Therefore sexual relations cannot be procreative, if I understand what you mean by having sex with this person.

Point 2 is completely incorrect. Infertility in and of itself does not make sex sinful. An infertile couple can marry and licitly engage in sexual relations, provided that they are married. Infertility is also not a barrier to marriage. Impotence is though.

Marital sex serves two purposes: it is both unitive and procreative. If procreative ability is impaired by natural reasons, it remains moral and licit to have sex with one’s spouse. Infertility means that sex cannot be procreative, but it still can be unitive. Impotence means it can’t be either.