Sexism in the Bible - A debate

  • Thread starter Thread starter SlimNm
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Regarding the arguments, here are some thoughts:

Eve was created from Adam’s rib, but this was after Adam was created from dirt (Genesis 2:7), who had the more low origins? Also, Eve was made so that Adam would be able to find a partner to share his life with, feeling alone without her, thus they complete each other and are equals, especially considering Genesis 2:24, where they become one in flesh, indicating equality.

As for the helper thing, does helper indicate subservience? Help means “to give assistance or support” (merriam-webster.com/dictionary/helps) and thus a helper would be an equal, since a lower class of being can not help a higher one.

Eve is FIRST persuaded by the snake, Adam is then persuaded by her, it is an order of chronology, no indication is given that she was with Adam at the time.

God does declare women’s punishment for sin to be subserivance, but he also says that a woman will bear the offspring that will save mankind and that “you(woman) will crush he(the devil/snake) will bite your heel,” indicating that it is woman that would be of the most help in triumphing over sin, compared to man.

That’s his genesis argument, I’ll look at the next section now.
 
I don’t really have a response to his Corinthians argument, as such a specific statement as things like hair-coverings is probably related to some sort of issue with the times, and would thus require context to properly understand. As it is now, he has taken a single statement out of context and thus we can not properly view it outside a he has made vacuum.

He says that all of Jesus’ apostles were men and claims that that is sexist: Mary is the only one to possess no sin upon her soul and she is a woman, furthermore, she is with the apostles when they are hiding from the crowds, (See acts 1) and is there when the Holy Spirit fills them, once again indicating equality.

He argues that women are seen as less, citing that “Adam was not decieved,” this, if anything, reflects more poorly on Adam!:eek: As Eve needed to be lied to to eat the fruit, Adam blindly ate it, indicating that Eve actually needed convincing!
 
Also, remember, your go-to people in this debate will be Mary and Judus, Mary, a woman, helped redeem all mankind by being the mother of Christ, the Savior, while Judus, a man, sent him to death for a little spare cash. This is the polar opposite of the roles in the Garden, indicating that it has gone full circle, which will backfire quite horribly. He will try to argue that men don’t all suffer for Judus’ mistake, while all women suffer for Eve’s, but point out that all men are also in the same state of sin as women because of Adam’s eating of the fruit.
 
All I can say is what the church teaches. Which is that men and women are equal. What some call sexism is a mixture of things. First the times in which were living. Second a misunderstanding brought about by modernism. Modernism says that women have to be a certain way. So does the Church. It says all people must follow the will of God. God wills that men and women have different natures. Modernism calls the living out of these natures sexist because modernism would have women and men living differently.

Just some thoughts

God bless
 
Aeden is soooo right.

Mary is the Queen of Heaven, Ark of the New Covenant, Mother of God!

How are we sexist?
 
I’m not familiar with that site. How does it work, an audience watches a live video stream of the debate?

Men and women are biologically and psychologically different. Therefore, it is only natural that we should discriminate between the sexes and appoint to them different roles. If sexism means acknowledging our differences, then, yes, there is sexism in the Bible.

If sexism means prejudice against women, then I don’t think there is sexism in the Bible.

See this list for a number of verses that may be thrown at you. They are all easily refuted as evidence for prejudice against women. Only Leviticus 12:2 and 12:5 seem be problematic, but the ritual differences between mothers who give birth to a boy and mothers who give birth a girl are probably based on the fact that boys had to be circumcised on the eighth day.

Good luck. 🙂
 
Aeden said:
Eve is FIRST persuaded by the snake, Adam is then persuaded by her, it is an order of chronology, no indication is given that she was with Adam at the time.
Click to expand...
I just re-read the section of fruit-eating to be sure and it is ambiguous as to whether or not they were together, meaning that it COULD be interpreted as adam having to be decieved by both the serpent and the woman, either way though, they both fell for the same crime, the only difference being that the woman tempted adam, while the snake tempted the woman, there is still no reason to believe that Adam was somehow more resistant to temptation than Eve, as the serpent did not try to tempt Adam, but tempted Eve, who in turn tempted Adam. Just a little extra in case you need it.
 
Sexism is a word meant to stir conflict, nothing more. If these people believe that the writers of the Bible planned all the male references, we have Jesus who is a man, his/our Father, and the Holy Spirit is identified as male as well.

bible.cc/john/16-7.htm

This was all written long before the fighting/conflict words, sexist and sexism, were invented.

Hope this helps,
Ed
 
IesuMariaIoseph said:
Mary is the Queen of Heaven, Ark of the New Covenant, Mother of God!
Click to expand...
Theotokos (God-bearer)
Virgo Virginum (Virgin of virgins)
The Blessed Virgin Mary
The Blessed Mother
Mother of God
Immaculate Mary
Saint Mary
Holy Mary
Holy Virgin
Our Lady …of Fatima,
…of Guadalupe,
…of Lourdes,
…of Mount Carmel,
…of Akita,
…of Good Counsel,
…of Graces,
…of Victory,
…of the Rosary, etc, etc.

Star of the Sea
The Madonna
The Mother of the Church
Queen of Heaven
Mother of Mercy
Co-Redemptrix
Mediatrix
New Eve

Add about 100+ other titles, and you’ll have given 'em all for Mother Mary! 😃
 
Wow, thank all of you, especially Aeden. My faith isn’t in doubt here in the least; in fact, his arguments are so weak they strengthen mine. I asked for help because my main goal is convincing the general user population on the site to vote for me. Internet Evangelization, plus it feels good to have a majority of people say you are right. Haha.
 
In reference to Aeden’s quote:
God does declare women’s punishment for sin to be subserivance, but he also says that a woman will bear the offspring that will save mankind and that “you(woman) will crush he(the devil/snake) will bite your heel,” indicating that it is woman that would be of the most help in triumphing over sin, compared to man.
Click to expand...
I think you are incorrect; it isn’t a woman that will crush the devil, it’s her son. Please clarify this point for me! Nowhere can I find the Bible saying that a woman will crush the devil.
 
How about the law in the Old Testament requiring women to marry their rapist?

I think this applies to women who are single at the time of the rape. However knowing rapists, she probably wouldn’t be his only victim. Would his victims also be required to marry him?

I can just imagine a man who has had no success in getting a woman to marry him. All he had to do was rape her and viola, she’s his.
 
SlimNm said:
In reference to Aeden’s quote:

I think you are incorrect; it isn’t a woman that will crush the devil, it’s her son. Please clarify this point for me! Nowhere can I find the Bible saying that a woman will crush the devil.
Click to expand...
Thank you for pointing that out! That’s what I get for speed reading late at night: mixing up Mary and Jesus!:eek:
 
SlimNm said:
In reference to Aeden’s quote:

I think you are incorrect; it isn’t a woman that will crush the devil, it’s her son. Please clarify this point for me! Nowhere can I find the Bible saying that a woman will crush the devil.
Click to expand...
In Genesis it is the son of the woman. Traditionally in Catholic art Mary (the woman) is depicted stepping on the serpent in Genesis.

I would say the Bible is more sexist than Catholicism the living Church, that extra-Biblical history that marches through post-Biblical time and consequently unrecorded in the Bible.

I don’t think the Declaration of Independence or U.S. Constitution are sufficient by themselves to infer a history and culture of the United States from one coast to the next. Likewise, I see a logical limitation in literary criticism of the Bible if one is attempting to understand the living Church throughout post-Biblical history.

But you got yourself caught up in a debate to defend the Bible over normal social and political paradigms of today. There is slavery in the Bible and Moses has young and old slaughtered for heretical idol worship. The God of the Old Testament supposedly prescribes burning at the stake the daughter of priests over things today we would regard as not worthy of homicide let alone death by burning at the stake. But it’s not the Bible that was hung crucified on the Cross nor the Bible that rose from the dead. It does not matter what landscape Satan wants you to fight the battle on. Of course he will pick the bible because he can quote Scripture. The real questions are these for the detractor of Christianity:

Will you deny Jesus as Christ before others?

Will you bend your knee before the Holy Mother of God?

All that yapping about the Bible does not matter… because the answers to these questions and our heart will justify us or not. In this sense the Protestant is right about by faith and by grace.
 
Sarcelle raises and important question. I think that the reference is to Deuteronomy 22:28-29.
Yes it can be understood the way it was presented, but the Hebrew does not say that it was a case of rape necessarily. We do well to not try to view these things by contemporary standards of our Western civilization. It is also a warning to men that if they commit this act, there will be immediate (paying the father 50 shekels) and lifelong consequences (no divorce lifelong). Marriage in those days was a way of uniting to the woman’s family, for one was expected to protect the members of the extended family or tribe if one married into it: my friends are your friends, my enemies, your enemies sort of a thing. The laws found in Deuteronomy actually indicated that women had some intrinsic value, and were not to be used and discarded. Sadly, that message still is not understood in many segments of the modern world.
 
Oldtimer_7 said:
Sarcelle raises and important question. I think that the reference is to Deuteronomy 22:28-29.
Yes it can be understood the way it was presented, but the Hebrew does not say that it was a case of rape necessarily. We do well to not try to view these things by contemporary standards of our Western civilization. It is also a warning to men that if they commit this act, there will be immediate (paying the father 50 shekels) and lifelong consequences (no divorce lifelong). Marriage in those days was a way of uniting to the woman’s family, for one was expected to protect the members of the extended family or tribe if one married into it: my friends are your friends, my enemies, your enemies sort of a thing. The laws found in Deuteronomy actually indicated that women had some intrinsic value, and were not to be used and discarded. Sadly, that message still is not understood in many segments of the modern world.
Click to expand...
Thanks for that. Fortunately, my opponent hasn’t brought up this particular aspect of the Bible yet.

If anyone could check out the link again, debate.org/debates/Is-the-Bible-Sexist and read my opponent’s most recent arguments, and let me know if they have any suggestions for my defense, that would be great!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top