Sexism

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awfulthings9

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I’m so tired of the sexist attitude of so many Catholics.
The degrading position of women and their roles in the Church.
The insulting opinion of “liberal” Catholics that the very special role of women in the Church and the family isn’t special and unique.
That it is in some way “inferior” to that of men.

As I read Ephesians 5, I think of the relationship that my wife and I have. She submits to me and I give her my sacrificial love. So many cringe at the idea of a wife “submitting” to her husband, but this is only because they have such a antique understanding of marriage. By submitting to me, this doesn’t mean that my wife has no say in family matters. It doesn’t mean she cannot override my financial insight or disciplinary suggestions. It doesn’t mean, as some think it does, that I can go by a new car without her permission or that she needs to get me a beer on command.

It means that, as a husband, I model myself after Christ, and she allows me … she *submits *to that. I might model myself after Christ and sacrifice myself by working two jobs or hurt my back shoveling the snow, and she submits to that. I might model myself after Christ and offer her a backrub after a bad day and she submits to that. I might model myself after Christ and give up watching my favorite television show to do the dishes, and she submits to that. I might model myself after Christ by leading the family in a nightly rosary, and she submits to that. I am her servant, and she submits to that. I give everything I am, and she submits to that.

My wife, however, models herself after the Church. I am her servant, and she is the one who works at my rough edges, as the Church does through baptism and confirmation. She is the one who revitalizes me, as the Church does through reconciliation. She is the one who nurses our children, as we are fed through the Eucharist. She is the one I will fight and die for, as the Church and Christ are the ones for whom we would give our lives.

This relationship parallels what we see in the roles of women and men in the Church. The priest is our servant, the one who gives his life to our service and our sanctification in Christ. It is the woman, though, whom we hold in esteem. She is our vision of heaven. Her comfort is in the volunteer work women give to the faith community; it is in the prayers that sisters offer for us all; it is in the image of heaven we get from a woman’s beauty; it is in her beautiful insight and the gift of herself as an extraordinary minister of communion or as an usher or as a member of the parish council; it is in the way women bring us an image of our Blessed Virgin through their vocations as wives and mothers. She is the one for whom we fight. Her touch, her hug, her soft words, are the perfect complement to the priest in his sacramental role.

And liberal Catholics don’t think that is important. God gave his church the most awesome gift in women, who in their “behind-the-scenes” role, give us energy in our daily spiritual walk. I read the posts by “enlightened” Catholics who want to tell my wife that all that she does as a mother and a wife and a volunteer doesn’t amount to much until she’s able to wear a Roman collar.

What a sexist attitude.
 
ok, took me a minute to read then reread your post as I had originally thought it was going to be a tirade against the Church. Sorry… :o

I don’t like the sexist attitude of the fem-nazi’s but that’s a result of the women’s lib (or should I say womyn’s?) movement. I’m all about women having rights and stuff, but I don’t go for what’s been going on.

As for Eph. 5… I have no problem submitting… what’s missing in most interpretations (especially for Protestants) is the RESPECT. Every act of submission from either spouse is done out of respect, not just because he’s the husband.

that’s just my two cents. 😛
 
Peace be with you!

I agree. “Submit to your husbands” is a verse often misunderstood, by Protestants and athiests alike (moreso by the latter). Submission, from the Latin, means to place under the mission of, as Christopher West explained. So what that verse is saying is wives, place yourselves under the mission of your husbands. The mission of the husbands is explained in the next verse: “Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ loved the Church.”

In Christ,
Rand
 
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tamccrackine:
ok, took me a minute to read then reread your post as I had originally thought it was going to be a tirade against the Church. Sorry… :o

I don’t like the sexist attitude of the fem-nazi’s but that’s a result of the women’s lib (or should I say womyn’s?) movement. I’m all about women having rights and stuff, but I don’t go for what’s been going on.

As for Eph. 5… I have no problem submitting… what’s missing in most interpretations (especially for Protestants) is the RESPECT. Every act of submission from either spouse is done out of respect, not just because he’s the husband.p
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Glad I had you confused! Part of my attempt was to get people stirred up, thinking I was just another lib trying to “reform” the male-dominated church. My other motivation was that there is a thread floating somewhere just above or below mine about Women Priests. The first post is just so judgemental of “conservative” Catholics (though I prefer the term “obediant” Catholics) that I had to write about the fact that when “enlightened” and politically correct “Catholics” start on their “women should be priests” rants, I am so offended. It’s one of the most sexist attitudes I’ve ever seen. I think the family is a model of the Church (and yeah, I love Christopher West’s and John Paul II’s writings on theology of the body, too), and with everything I do in my marriage, it is all for my wife only secondary in that it is all for Christ. She is the real authority figure, in a sense, because it is my love of her that commands my sacrificial actions.
 
Sexism was rampant when the scriptures were written.

The admonition that wives submit to their husbands reflects Mediterranian culture in the 1st century when women were considered chattels. Those quoting the scripture have demonstrated a habit of not completing the part that says the husband is to love the wife like Christ loves the Church. The scriptural admonition has been used to the great disadvantage of women for centuries.
There is no getting around the fact that in Bible times in the middle east men were supreme over women. And in the Middle East it is still that way in many places.

In western countries this attitude, like polygamy, is hopelessly passe.
 
OriginalJS, you misunderstand Scripture. Let’s analyze Ephesians 5. Here’s verses 21-32:

21 Be subordinate to one another out of reverence for Christ.
22 Wives should be subordinate to their husbands as to the Lord.
23 For the husband is head of his wife just as Christ is head of the church, he himself the savior of the body.
24 As the church is subordinate to Christ, so wives should be subordinate to their husbands in everything.
25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ loved the church and handed himself over for her
26 to sanctify her, cleansing her by the bath of water with the word,
27 that he might present to himself the church in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish.
28 So (also) husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself.
29 For no one hates his own flesh but rather nourishes and cherishes it, even as Christ does the church,
30 because we are members of his body.
31 “For this reason a man shall leave (his) father and (his) mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.”
32 This is a great mystery, but I speak in reference to Christ and the church.
33 In any case, each one of you should love his wife as himself, and the wife should respect her husband.

We are to submit to one another, but in different ways. Wives are to place themselves under the mission of their husband. What is this mission? To hand himself over to her as Christ handed himself over for us (i.e. to the point of death). Basically then, the wife submits to the husband and allows for him to offer his life to her and to sanctify her. Awfulthings9 laid this out beautifully. Yes, the husband is the head of the household, but his will is directed towards the good of his household.
 
As a woman, raised by a good, Catholic mother who was left alone to raise her children by herself, I have absolutely no problem accepting the teachings of my Church, seeing myself as a complete and total equal to all the men in my Church and feeling totally accepted as a complete and meaningful member of the Catholic faith despite the fact that I am a widow, did not have children of my own, support myself, and have two college degrees. I fail to see why anyone would think that the Church, which is relies upon both Holy Scripture AND Sacred Tradition, is sexist simply because I cannot be ordained a priest. Guess what. A priest cannot have a child. He may want to, and it may not be fair. He can’t. Oh well. I cannot become a priest. I may want to, and it may not be fair. Oh well.

At some point, in our lives, this has to stop being about getting what we WANT and become doing what HE wants…in other words, practicing the virtue of OBEDIENCE. And I defy anyone to tell me, that because I have CHOSEN by my own free will to practice this virtue that somehow I am oppressed.

In the words of Dorothy Day - stick it in your ear.

ok - so maybe she didn’t say that, but I betcha she would have…
 
Good essay. I like how you point out that radical feminists actually hate women. They’re misoginists! The whole thing makes me think of Michael Jordan playing baseball: you can’t change who you are.
 
Coming up to my 32 year wedding anniversary in just over a week. When I first read feminist rants about men I started to get a bit hot under the collar about those chauvanistic men who treated women so badly.

Then reality set in and I realised that no men would ever have got away with treating the women of my family, including grandmothers and great-grandmothers, badly.

They stayed home, looked after their husbands and raised their families but no-one could ever be deceived that they were downtrodden.

My maternal GM and G-GM were both married to non-Catholics, yet raised all their children in the Faith and their husbands both converted before they died. They deferred to their husbands when necessary yet are acknowledged to have been the ‘iron hand in the velvet glove.’

I defer to my husband as well. If he is in the wrong I don’t nag, I simply bring the matter to his attention as many times as necessary until he realises the fact. :rotfl:
 
Such a great thread! I love what you said as a man, awfulthings. I am fairly sure my husband believes many of the same things although he is not such an eloquent writer or speaker. (But, MAN is he an incredible chef!)

I have fully believed for many years that feminists really hate women and their own biology. The many feminists I have dealt with have so often referred to “hating their bodies.” This would be said in reference to menstrual cycles, pregnancy, the ability to become pregnant, and general weight issues. Sadly what has happened is that those self-haters have spread to women who are not feminists. I have spent hours talking with many female friends trying to undo the damage.

The irony I have found is that the women who fight the hardest are often women whose husbands (exs usually) or fathers bought into the feminist ideology and demanded these women behave differently than their nature. Because of this treatment they have no idea of their true nature or how to express things. Since they were forced down they felt they had to fight to the top. Fighting is against a woman’s nature. (Nagging yes, fighting, no… I love how Eileen T put it.)

I love Eph 5. I have been told by so many people that as a woman it puts me down. I quickly disagree with them. It has raised me up. Thanks to those who have clarified the true meaning of submission. You have given me more to play with!

There is a part that I really liked in the movie, “My Big Fat Greek Wedding.” Her mother is talking about the man being the head of the body in marriage. Then she says it is most important to remember that the woman is the neck. It supports the head and most importantly, it turns the head. Without the neck the head can only look straight ahead.

I still live in hope that men and women can live true to our natures. I hope that sexism on both sides will be drowned out in love and respect. It works well in God’s design that men provide and protect and women feed and nurture. I cannot for the life of me figure out why people want it to be different than that.
 
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LittleDeb:
I have fully believed for many years that feminists really hate women and their own biology. The many feminists I have dealt with have so often referred to “hating their bodies.” This would be said in reference to menstrual cycles, pregnancy, the ability to become pregnant, and general weight issues. Sadly what has happened is that those self-haters have spread to women who are not feminists. I have spent hours talking with many female friends trying to undo the damage.
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Oh yeah. From what I have read, many of the early feminists and ‘women’s libbers’ were abuse either verbally, physically or sexually. They were ‘victims’ who’ found their voice’ and believed all women were victims.
The irony I have found is that the women who fight the hardest are often women whose husbands (exs usually) or fathers bought into the feminist ideology and demanded these women behave differently than their nature. Because of this treatment they have no idea of their true nature or how to express things. Since they were forced down they felt they had to fight to the top. Fighting is against a woman’s nature. (Nagging yes, fighting, no… I love how Eileen T put it.)
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Aaargh! I never nag. I disagree about fighting though, if you hurt my kids you hurt me! God help you then, I’ll go to confession afterwards - IF I repent!
I love Eph 5. I have been told by so many people that as a woman it puts me down. I quickly disagree with them. It has raised me up. Thanks to those who have clarified the true meaning of submission. You have given me more to play with!
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St Paul a misogynist? I love St Paul. I think he knew that if women were allowed their head they would be worse than men could ever be. Who are the most ruthless baby-killers today?
There is a part that I really liked in the movie, “My Big Fat Greek Wedding.” Her mother is talking about the man being the head of the body in marriage. Then she says it is most important to remember that the woman is the neck. It supports the head and most importantly, it turns the head. Without the neck the head can only look straight ahead.
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I love that movie. That mother is like the women in my family. We support our menfolk, affirm them and tell them how wonderful they are…but they are the only ones who don’t realise who is really in control - if they do they are clever enough to pretend they don’t!
I still live in hope that men and women can live true to our natures. I hope that sexism on both sides will be drowned out in love and respect. It works well in God’s design that men provide and protect and women feed and nurture. I cannot for the life of me figure out why people want it to be different than that.
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I love my husband, I respect him, and I protect him as much as I can from reality, I let him be the hero.
 
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LittleDeb:
Such a great thread! I love what you said as a man, awfulthings. I am fairly sure my husband believes many of the same things although he is not such an eloquent writer or speaker. (But, MAN is he an incredible chef!).
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Eloquent writing and speaking is just a clever arrangement of words. A good cook, though, that’s a man who cares for his family and isn’t afraid to put his heart (and a little oregano) into it.
 
From St. John Chrysostom:

Observe again that Paul has exhorted husbands and wives to reciprocity…To love therefore, is the husband’s part, to yield pertains to the other side. If, then, each one contributes his own part, all stand firm. From being loved, the wife too becomes loving; and from her being submissive, the husband learns to yield." (Homilies on Colossians, NPNF1 13:304)
 
what a great post.
the scriputre from eph was read at my wedding and I could feel some of my girlfrined chringing in the crowd 🙂
to submit is a HUGE struggle for me. I have a bad temper and can be an evil nag. It’s my cross to bear, but I try and bear it well. I believe that if I yeald to my husband, God will not let me down. I pray for him constantly that he will guide our small family and the proper way. he’s not catholic but he drives me to mass and makes sure we find a catholic church when we are out of town. I know it’s because I go to mass quietly and don’t try and drag him along. I don’t nag about it. it’s funny how when we let go of our controle, we get everything we want (need) anyway. and it comes easier.
Also, if my husband leads our family in a wrong way, he’s the one who has to answer for it. if he harms our family, it’s his fault. I have a duty to do also and if I do it fully and he messes up, it’s on him. I don’t want that authority. with great authority, come great responsablity. He can have it. and the OP is such a wise man. your wife must be wonderful! when the two of you make it to heaven, I’m sure you’ll both hear, “well done, my good and faithful servent”
 
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