Sexless marriage?

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Suppose a married couple tries sex on their wedding night, and afterwards realises they don’t care for it very much. How many times a year are they obligated to have sex in order to preserve the legitimacy of their marriage?
 
None, so long as the abstinence is mutually agreed upon.

– Mark L. Chance.
 
Doesn’t such an arrangement violate the intrinsic purpose of marriage, which is to beget children?
 
Doesn’t such an arrangement violate the intrinsic purpose of marriage, which is to beget children?
If the abstinence is mutually agreed upon, no. Josephite marriages are rare, but they are not forbidden.

– Mark L. Chance.
 
If the abstinence is mutually agreed upon, no. Josephite marriages are rare, but they are not forbidden.

– Mark L. Chance.
Wouldn’t that imply that sterile people can be married? Someone else on these boards claimed that sterile people were ineligible for marriage. What’s the difference between sterility and mutual abstinence?
 
Wouldn’t that imply that sterile people can be married? Someone else on these boards claimed that sterile people were ineligible for marriage. What’s the difference between sterility and mutual abstinence?
Sterile people can be married. Impotence is an impediment but sterility is not.
 
Wouldn’t that imply that sterile people can be married? Someone else on these boards claimed that sterile people were ineligible for marriage. What’s the difference between sterility and mutual abstinence?
Sterility is either the inability to fertilize an ovum or the inability to produce ovum that can be fertilized. It does not mean one cannot have sex. Mutual abstinence is an agreement by both spouses to abstain from sex.

– Mark L. Chance.
 
Married couples mutually consenting to live as “brother and sister” was not unheard of in the middle ages when people were very faithful and wanted to progress more thoroughly in the faith.

I am going off memory but I recall that St. Bridget was married with children to royalty and he had a late life reawakening. She went on later to found a convent (The Brigittines – I stayed at one of her convent’s in Rome where they have a tradition of hospitality to travelers). Her story is quite interesting and she gives accounts of how she had a hard time giving up the marital pleasures and heeding her call to greater devotion (apparently her knightly husband was quite proficient and accomplished in his spousal conjugal duties ;)). They both consented to consecrate themselves entirely to God and went into religious monastic life later in life.

More here: St. Bridget of Sweden

James
 
Sterile people can be married. Impotence is an impediment but sterility is not.
What possible difference can there be between a sterile couple and an impotent couple? The end result–no children–is exactly the same.
 
You’ll notice in St. Paul that he says husbands and wives can abstain from sex whenever they want, in order to have more time for prayer. It has to be mutually agreed, however, because the normal way of things in marriage is for the spouses to have sex.

So if you’re wondering where this whole idea came from, it’s that passage from St. Paul plus the married life of St. Joseph and the Virgin Mary.
 
Suppose a married couple tries sex on their wedding night, and afterwards realises they don’t care for it very much. How many times a year are they obligated to have sex in order to preserve the legitimacy of their marriage?
Here’s some unsolicited advice, depending on whether Situation A or Situation B obtains:

Situation A: Your question is genuine, let’s say. If you are for real, please don’t give up on this yet. Nobody’s perfect first time around—everything gets much, much better with practice and patience.

Situation B: You just threw out this question to stir something up, for whatever reasons of your own. In that case, my advice would be to go read a good book, or watch a good movie, or SOMETHING else with your time.
 
What possible difference can there be between a sterile couple and an impotent couple?
This isn’t rocket science. Someone can be sterile and still engage in the marital act. Someone who is impotent cannot.
The end result–no children–is exactly the same.
The reasons for that end result, however, are different, and ignoring those reasons while focusing on just the result fails to take into account all the facts.

– Mark L. Chance.
 
Man A is impotent, and gets married realizing he can have a loving marriage without having sex.
Man B isn’t impotent, and gets married realizing he can have a loving marriage without having sex.

Why is Man A considered to be living in sin while Man B is considered to be living a virtuous life?
 
You’ll notice in St. Paul that he says husbands and wives can abstain from sex whenever they want, in order to have more time for prayer. It has to be mutually agreed, however, because the normal way of things in marriage is for the spouses to have sex.

So if you’re wondering where this whole idea came from, it’s that passage from St. Paul plus the married life of St. Joseph and the Virgin Mary.
A little know fact is that in the old Jewish practise married Rabbi’s abstained from sex when they were doing temple duties. The same is true of married Orthodox priests to this day - they abstain from conjugal relations for at least a day before services.

James
 
Man A is impotent, and gets married realizing he can have a loving marriage without having sex.
Man B isn’t impotent, and gets married realizing he can have a loving marriage without having sex.

Why is Man A considered to be living in sin while Man B is considered to be living a virtuous life?
Man A cannot possibly be answering a call from God because God intends marriage to have the primary purpose of begetting children and impotent men CANNOT beget children.
Man B could possibly be answering a call from God (hey, it’s not only priests and nuns who are called to lives of celibacy), and this is scripturally supported (look at the above posts). AND no one who lives a live intended by God is “living in sin”.
 
This isn’t rocket science. Someone can be sterile and still engage in the marital act. Someone who is impotent cannot.

The reasons for that end result, however, are different, and ignoring those reasons while focusing on just the result fails to take into account all the facts.

– Mark L. Chance.
What does copulation or lack thereof have to do with marriage if the end result is always “no children”? An impotent man can’t marry but a sterile one who can futilely ape the deed can? That makes no sense.
 
What does copulation or lack thereof have to do with marriage if the end result is always “no children”? An impotent man can’t marry but a sterile one who can futilely ape the deed can? That makes no sense.
The way I see it is sterility can be fixed by modern medicine, and sometimes even sterile people can beget children (Remember Elizabeth, the mother of John the Baptist)? But impotent people (e.g. those who have been castrated) has 0% chance of begetting children, and currently nothing can be done to improve the odds. See the difference?
 
Man A cannot possibly be answering a call from God because God intends marriage to have the primary purpose of begetting children and impotent men CANNOT beget children.
Man B could possibly be answering a call from God (hey, it’s not only priests and nuns who are called to lives of celibacy), and this is scripturally supported (look at the above posts). AND no one who lives a live intended by God is “living in sin”.
Sorry, this makes no sense. If the reason Man A is living in sin is because the primary purpose of marriage is to beget children, then Man B would also be guilty of the same sin, since he intends on having a sexless marriage.
 
You’ll notice in St. Paul that he says husbands and wives can abstain from sex whenever they want, in order to have more time for prayer. It has to be mutually agreed, however, because the normal way of things in marriage is for the spouses to have sex.

So if you’re wondering where this whole idea came from, it’s that passage from St. Paul plus the married life of St. Joseph and the Virgin Mary.
That said it best.

The primary purpose of marriage is for the spouses to support and contribute to each other’s spiritual growth. Period.

Sexual relations and possibly begetting children may or may not be in sync with this primary purpose at any given time in any given marriage.

Anyone who claims the primary purpose of marriage is begetting offspring is at best, catering to the average population, or is naive, or at worst, is being manipulative.
It doesn’t matter what that person’s title or position of authority is.
 
Man A is impotent, and gets married realizing he can have a loving marriage without having sex.
Man B isn’t impotent, and gets married realizing he can have a loving marriage without having sex.

Why is Man A considered to be living in sin while Man B is considered to be living a virtuous life?
Because the sexual act is necessary for the Sacrament of Marriage to be true. Sex in marriage is really similar to Communion. In the Sexual act you are worshiping your spouse, in Communion you are worshiping Christ. Just like sex, Communion is not necessary other then once to be a Catholic in full Communion. But just like Communion, we all called to do it as much as possible to keep our bodies from sin. What you are speaking of does happen with religous couples who are part of an order that allows spouses into their ranks.

This is the reason why the Church will not recognize someone who is not able to have sex, but they can be allowed to marry under the Bishops advice I believe. Procreation is not necessary for the Sacrament of Marriage but they must be open to it.
 
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