Sexual Abuse in other faiths?

[tjones80]

Hi all. We are all sadly familiar with the many news reports on Clerical sexual misconduct. For me it has been a very disheartening, shaking experience, sifting through the various articles, and grand jury reports of various cities/ dioceses. I am fortunate to live in the Twin Cities/ Minnesota archdiocese, where thankfully, there has not been a flood of lawsuits and bankruptcy.

But I wonder about other faiths? Is it really just as bad in other religions? Is it better? Is it worse? I have heard that the Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses, and Southern Baptists have severe problems in this regard, though this is just heresay.

Does anyone know?

The child abuse rate is 5% across all groups. The only reason the Catholic child abuse is so bad and costs so much money to settle is that the Church reassigned preists that were caught usually after some counseling to other parishes where they abused more children.
If the Catholic Church had simply kicked out any preist that had abused children then the civil damages would not have been as high as they are. Since the Chuurch has now changed policies regarding child abuse in the future their will not be any major scandals to worry about. But no matter how careful the Church is there still will be incidents of child abuse and those offenders will be removed promptly now instead of being reassigned.

 

[josephback]

I think to a large degree the media has singled out the Catholic Church and has hurt her greatly! I believe that in many instances, the media drooled all over themselves in there haste to purposely harm the Catholic Church. I found the following very, very interesting;
themediareport.com/fast-facts/

Peace, Mark

The Catholic Church makes claims that no Protestant would dare(like one true church"). Thus, as I once read in an article, the reason that people hold the Catholic Church to greater scrutiny is because of the extroadinary claims it makes. Higher bar, higher standard. The real time for worry this article said, would be when charges of abuse by the clergy emit only a yawn.

 

[Bradski]

And I have read that there was a concerted effort by organized homosexuals who wanted to bring the Church down from the inside, to get into seminaries in the 1960’s and 1970’s, which they succeeded in doing.

Let me get this straight…

You are seriously suggesting that there was a concerted and specific plot by homosexuals to infiltrate the Catholic Church over a period of twenty years in order to bring the church down. And that to do this they entered seminaries, studied for years and worked behind the scenes in an organised manner acting as some sort of fifth columnists.

Presumably, as we are talking about the rape of young children, to abuse those in their charge to bring the church into disrepute.

There isn’t anything in that scenario that has any relationship to reality in the slightest. Maybe you could let me know where you read it? We could then contact the person who wrote it and tell him or her that they should get some help.

Then, when abuse happened, the knowledge of pedophilia at the time was not extensive and it was not known that pedophiles were largely unable to be reformed. The Bishops did the best they could with the knowledge that they had at the time.

No. The best thing to do when you find that a child has been raped, assuming that your own anger does not turn to immediate thoughts of violent reprisal, is to make sure that the perpetrator is brought to justice as soon as possible and punished to the full extent allowable by law. Not to think: Hey, we’ll move him somewhere else so that the problem will obviously dissapear.

And in any case, can you give any details of what was tried in the way of reform? If someone had been caught raping a child, what did the Bishops do in that regard? Any details?

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I have read exactly the same thing, in fact there is a book unfortunately I can’t remember the name but it mentioned that the diary of one of these activists was found after his death and the book mentioned how he was able to successfully enter the seminar and how he worked to destroy the church from the inside.

If you can find a link, please put it up, I am looking through my bookmarks but it may take some digging.

Thanks.

Of course an atheist wouldn’t believe that our Church came under this kind of attack, but it did happen.

Here is one quote I just found, I’m off to bed but will post more tomorrow.

*William Donohue, president of the Catholic League, a conservative Catholic group, however said he believes permissiveness in the church in the 1960s and 1970s - particularly at seminaries - had been a significant reason for the rise in sexual abuse. Mr. Donohue said that while he generally supported the report’s findings, he believed that the study seemed to have purposefully avoided linking abuse cases with the increase in the number of gay men who became priests during the 1960s and 1970s. “The authors go through all sorts of contortions to deny the obvious - that obviously, homosexuality was at work,” Mr. Donohue said. *

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Let me get this straight…

You are seriously suggesting that there was a concerted and specific plot by homosexuals to infiltrate the Catholic Church over a period of twenty years in order to bring the church down. And that to do this they entered seminaries, studied for years and worked behind the scenes in an organised manner acting as some sort of fifth columnists.

Presumably, as we are talking about the rape of young children, to abuse those in their charge to bring the church into disrepute.

There isn’t anything in that scenario that has any relationship to reality in the slightest. Maybe you could let me know where you read it? We could then contact the person who wrote it and tell him or her that they should get some help.

No. The best thing to do when you find that a child has been raped, assuming that your own anger does not turn to immediate thoughts of violent reprisal, is to make sure that the perpetrator is brought to justice as soon as possible and punished to the full extent allowable by law. Not to think: Hey, we’ll move him somewhere else so that the problem will obviously dissapear.

And in any case, can you give any details of what was tried in the way of reform? If someone had been caught raping a child, what did the Bishops do in that regard? Any details?

Yes, I stand by what I posted. Here.

catholiceducation.org/articles/facts/fm0153.htm

 

[HabemusFrancis]

Bradski, as much as I hate to say this, it was slightly more complicated than what you said.

Before 1984, or so, it was very difficult for child sex abuse victims to get real, good help. Filing a police report would not have been what happened before early 1980s. It could have been that some bishops just “did not care” about kids getting molested, but many were handicapped by their times, as were most people of other institutions of the time.

Of course there was this same unwholesome pattern going on in the 1980s, and even up until the mid 1990s! That is what a great number of clergy in Philadelphia are in trouble for now!

The whole thing makes me so sad, and at times disillusioned with a good part of the Churche’s leadership. I do think that history will vindicate Pope Benedict XVI in his zeal and earnestness to crack down on sex abuse. I think JPII was only half aware of the problem before the 2002 revelations, and tended to dismiss it as an aberrant anomoly, an “American thing” that was being taken care of. It upset him very much, but he was just to old and sick by the time the “floodgates were opened.”

We must all remember to pray for out leadership, for the priesthood itself, and for the victims, those who have felt completly cut off and abandoned from the goodness of the Church, and God as well.

 

[stewstew03]

…

And in any case, can you give any details of what was tried in the way of reform? If someone had been caught raping a child, what did the Bishops do in that regard? Any details?

Sure - are you familiar with Towards Healing, which was initiated back in 1996?

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

And I have read that there was a concerted effort by organized homosexuals who wanted to bring the Church down from the inside, to get into seminaries in the 1960’s and 1970’s, which they succeeded in doing. Then, when abuse happened, the knowledge of pedophilia at the time was not extensive and it was not known that pedophiles were largely unable to be reformed. The Bishops did the best they could with the knowledge that they had at the time. But many people take what we know now, backward in time and think “They should have known this!” Sure, they should have, but they didn’t! Only gradually and with a lot more experience has it been shown that pedophilia is a very stubborn disorder.

The Catholic Church has done more than any other faith to prevent these events from happening and to treat each one as it should be dealt with. Of course there would seem to be more, since the Church is made up of over a billion people. And when the scandals first started to emerge, people didn’t realize that these cases were from an era where next to nothing was known about pedophilia.

The clergy has always had a higher than average amount of gay people in it for reasons innate to it.

 

[Bradski]

Yes, I stand by what I posted. Here.

catholiceducation.org/articles/facts/fm0153.htm

That link has literally nothing at all to do with what you posted. Which was that a covert, concerted and organised movement of homosexuals working undercover in the ministry over a period of twenty years was attempting to bring down the church.

I would suggest that you have no evidence of that whatsoever.

Sure - are you familiar with Towards Healing, which was initiated back in 1996?

I’m not asking what the church has done or is doing to reform itself. I wanted to know what was done to reform the paedophiles (as Juliane admits they were). As she said:

“…it was not known that pedophiles were largely unable to be reformed. The Bishops did the best they could with the knowledge that they had at the time.:

So their best was…moving them elsewhere? Not reporting the fact that children had been raped to the police? That didn’t occur to them? It is this above all other matters that makes people angry and keeps it in the press.

 

[chosen_people]

And what about the jews? They are not small and they are not fragmented and they do have a unified identity. They also have the highest rates of pedophiles. Why we don’t see the media attackingng them?

The same anti-Jewish internet sites that falsely state that “Jews have the highest rate of pedophiles” are the same sites that explain that “the Jews control the media”.

As to why Catholic priests are being mentioned in this context, retired Catholic Bishop Giacomo Babini of the Italian town of Grosseto gave the answer back in 2010 when he told the Catholic Pontifex website
" the Catholic pedophile scandal is being orchestrated by the “eternal enemies of Catholicism, namely the freemasons and the Jews, whose mutual entanglements are not always easy to see through. … I think that it is primarily a Zionist attack, in view of its power and refinement. They do not want the church, they are its natural enemies. Deep down, historically speaking, the Jews are God-killers.”

 

[ngill09]

If you can find a link, please put it up, I am looking through my bookmarks but it may take some digging.

Thanks.

Of course an atheist wouldn’t believe that our Church came under this kind of attack, but it did happen.

Here is one quote I just found, I’m off to bed but will post more tomorrow.

*William Donohue, president of the Catholic League, a conservative Catholic group, however said he believes permissiveness in the church in the 1960s and 1970s - particularly at seminaries - had been a significant reason for the rise in sexual abuse. Mr. Donohue said that while he generally supported the report’s findings, he believed that the study seemed to have purposefully avoided linking abuse cases with the increase in the number of gay men who became priests during the 1960s and 1970s. “The authors go through all sorts of contortions to deny the obvious - that obviously, homosexuality was at work,” Mr. Donohue said. *

I think Bill Donahue is a secret liberal trying to make Catholicism look ridiculous. I mean, look at how often he gets to be put on the news as a “representative of Catholics.”

 

[stewstew03]

The same anti-Jewish internet sites that falsely state that “Jews have the highest rate of pedophiles” are the same sites that explain that “the Jews control the media”.

As to why Catholic priests are being mentioned in this context, retired Catholic Bishop Giacomo Babini of the Italian town of Grosseto gave the answer back in 2010 when he told the Catholic Pontifex website
" the Catholic pedophile scandal is being orchestrated by the “eternal enemies of Catholicism, namely the freemasons and the Jews, whose mutual entanglements are not always easy to see through. … I think that it is primarily a Zionist attack, in view of its power and refinement. They do not want the church, they are its natural enemies. Deep down, historically speaking, the Jews are God-killers.”

So, in response to someone who misrepresents Jews, you offer a misrepresentation of your own?

 

[Christy_Beth]

Ok guys. enough already. Sex abuse has happed an I think that the church is making late movement to clean all this mess. It may not go away completely, because there will always be t hose with such desires. And even non-priest employees of the church will be a sad cause of this. And the sad fact remains, we aren’t the only ones with this problem. We do need to weed out the “bad” from the “good.” Hopefully before someone gets into the seminary or is ordained a priest. But,. barrinng that, we need to speak up when we are sure of an act of sexual abuse. We are all called to be like Christ, and speaking up about sex sins is a good place to start. But make sure of the facs first. Maybe others have seen the same behavior and would be willing to add their names to the complaint. Remember, the squeeky when gets the oil.

 

[marymary1975]

If you can find a link, please put it up, I am looking through my bookmarks but it may take some digging.

Thanks.

Of course an atheist wouldn’t believe that our Church came under this kind of attack, but it did happen.

Here is one quote I just found, I’m off to bed but will post more tomorrow.

*William Donohue, president of the Catholic League, a conservative Catholic group, however said he believes permissiveness in the church in the 1960s and 1970s - particularly at seminaries - had been a significant reason for the rise in sexual abuse. Mr. Donohue said that while he generally supported the report’s findings, he believed that the study seemed to have purposefully avoided linking abuse cases with the increase in the number of gay men who became priests during the 1960s and 1970s. “The authors go through all sorts of contortions to deny the obvious - that obviously, homosexuality was at work,” Mr. Donohue said. *

Julianne, I found the name of one of the books. It was published in 1984 by Bella Does “the school of Darkness” and it details the infiltration plan to destroy the catholic church from the inside. I read it a long time ago. However, looking for it I noticed that according to this book the infiltration was not made by homosexuals but by the Communist party and the KGB Who were actively looking to destroy the church but it does mention that one of the objectives was for the infiltered “KGB priests” to assault children sexually. Dodd was a member of the communist party so it is a great read. Also I know there is another book based on the diary of one of this priests but I haven’t been able to find the link or the name. As soon as I do, I will post it.

 

[marymary1975]

The same anti-Jewish internet sites that falsely state that “Jews have the highest rate of pedophiles” are the same sites that explain that “the Jews control the media”.

As to why Catholic priests are being mentioned in this context, retired Catholic Bishop Giacomo Babini of the Italian town of Grosseto gave the answer back in 2010 when he told the Catholic Pontifex website
" the Catholic pedophile scandal is being orchestrated by the “eternal enemies of Catholicism, namely the freemasons and the Jews, whose mutual entanglements are not always easy to see through. … I think that it is primarily a Zionist attack, in view of its power and refinement. They do not want the church, they are its natural enemies. Deep down, historically speaking, the Jews are God-killers.”

Only last year NY had several cases of child abuse involving Rabbies and two children died. Why this Rabbies have not been scrutinized at the same level of catholic priest?

 

[WhatMeWorry]

I have read exactly the same thing, in fact there is a book unfortunately I can’t remember the name but it mentioned that the diary of one of these activists was found after his death and the book mentioned how he was able to successfully enter the seminar and how he worked to destroy the church from the inside.

Was this the book you were referring to?
amazon.com/Goodbye-Good-Men-Seminaries-Generations/dp/0967637112

Rose, Michael S. Goodbye Good Men: How Catholic Seminaries Turned Away Two Generations of Vocations From the Priesthood

 

[marymary1975]

Was this the book you were referring to?
amazon.com/Goodbye-Good-Men-Seminaries-Generations/dp/0967637112

Rose, Michael S. Goodbye Good Men: How Catholic Seminaries Turned Away Two Generations of Vocations From the Priesthood

No the book I was referring to was Bella Dodd’s the school of Darkness. The other one was the diary of a carmelita “priest” and it doesn’t seem to be that one. There may be other books on the matter but to me Dodd’s is the most significant as it was written in 1984 way before those issues came to public eye and made a wonderful description of exactly what was going to happen in 10 -20 years later.

 

[HappyCatholic01]

But why is it in the US we only here about Catholics?

Simply put, because Satan’s biggest obstacle to dominating all of society is the Eucharist and the Catholic Church. The forces of every other non-Catholic faith put together with the best of intentions cannot even approach the power of authentic Catholic living.

That is why He fuels Priests who fell into these sins, and why he fuels a media to focus on the Catholic Church’s mistakes while seemingly being indifferent elsewhere.

Destroy it from witthin, so he can allow society to destroy it from the outside. Satan wants to grab all souls, but the only ones with the tools to keep him at bay are those armed with the Rosary, the Papacy, and the Eucharist.

 

[Bradski]

Julianne, I found the name of one of the books. It was published in 1984 by Bella Does “the school of Darkness” and it details the infiltration plan to destroy the catholic church from the inside…it does mention that one of the objectives was for the infiltered “KGB priests” to assault children sexually.

Could you tell me where you get this info from? Because I missed the bit about infiltration by the KGB. Likewise the objectives to assault children. Or the bit to destroy the Catholic Church. In fact, the book mentions none of those things at all. It’s a personal account of communism in America in the 60’s.

So maybe it wasn’t homosexuals infiltrating the priesthood. Maybe it wasn’t the Communists either. Maybe it wasn’t the KGB. In fact, let’s be honest, there wasn’t anyone at all…

 

[HappyCatholic01]

Could you tell me where you get this info from? Because I missed the bit about infiltration by the KGB. Likewise the objectives to assault children. Or the bit to destroy the Catholic Church. In fact, the book mentions none of those things at all. It’s a personal account of communism in America in the 60’s.

So maybe it wasn’t homosexuals infiltrating the priesthood. Maybe it wasn’t the Communists either. Maybe it wasn’t the KGB. In fact, let’s be honest, there wasn’t anyone at all…

Sure, let’s be “honest” (which your response was clearly not), and look at facts that are readily available online.

Regardless of your thoughts of one particular book, there is ample evidence that many seminaries were infiltrated by active homosexuals in the late 60s, 70s and 80s. Books have discussed this, personal testimony and evidence from seminaries in this period bear this out (google the “Pink Palace” in Baltimore, for example), and the statistics of the scandal itself including those in the John Jay Report bear this out. There was a serious problem of an active and at times predatory homosexual infestation in seminaries and the Church paid for it. It is not the only sin within the Church, but it was the driving force behind the Priest scandal.