Sexual confusion and ignorance

[darciaWells]

I had a fairly unusual upbringing as a young person (I am now an adult), and the result of that is that I don’t know a lot about sex or how any of that works. I DO know quite a lot about moral theology, though, as it’s always been an interest of mine. So a quote from the Catechism isn’t going to help me. And I’ve known which sexual acts/thoughts are sins, and so forth, but not what those actually ARE. This has caused me many issues with scrupulosity in the past, but I have never had the courage/resources to fix this. For instance, I don’t exactly know what arousal is. (And I’m certainly not the normal female who can find it out an obvious way by experiencing it frequently. I don’t find almost anybody sexually attractive.).

So I have two main questions. One is: does anyone know of some really books/websites that could teach me sex education, explicitly enough to be not confusing, but in a Catholic way? I don’t really want to just jump into the internet with this, as you can find all sorts of things I don’t particularly want to see/read online.

Second question is about the specific problem I’m experiencing now. Kind of embarrassing, but here goes. Recently, I let my mind dwell on something that wasn’t sexual at all, but seemed to have a strange, possibly sexual, physical reaction to it. There was definitely some consent to this, although once it started getting more extreme I stopped. Now specifically… I find the idea of getting really drunk strangely attractive and repulsive at the same time (I have never done it myself as I am not at all a lightweight), and that’s what I was imagining.
So I’m scared to receive communion now. The problem is, I have had problems with both scrupulosity and the opposite (convincing myself that an actual legitimate sin was not a sin because I was being scrupulous). So everything’s fairly confusing, and I don’t know where I’m at.
Asking a priest is of course an option, but for one thing, I’m not very socially adept. In past confessions, if I’d tried to confess something I was confused or unsure about, I’d always come out realizing that I hadn’t talked about what I’d wanted to talk about AT ALL. And the priests often don’t understand me well either. (Communication by writing is SO MUCH EASIER.) So then I’d have to do the same thing over again. I’d REALLY prefer to have some idea of where I’m at with this before heading to confession.
And for another, I’m not sure if it’s his place to give me the sex education I should have had at a younger age.

Any help or suggestions would be appreciated. If not, then prayers. This sort of confusion has plagued me for a long time, and I’d like to finally take some steps to figure it out.
God bless.

 

[Mummsie]

I had a fairly unusual upbringing as a young person (I am now an adult), and the result of that is that I don’t know a lot about sex or how any of that works. I DO know quite a lot about moral theology, though, as it’s always been an interest of mine. So a quote from the Catechism isn’t going to help me. And I’ve known which sexual acts/thoughts are sins, and so forth, but not what those actually ARE. This has caused me many issues with scrupulosity in the past, but I have never had the courage/resources to fix this. For instance, I don’t exactly know what arousal is. (And I’m certainly not the normal female who can find it out an obvious way by experiencing it frequently. I don’t find almost anybody sexually attractive.).

So I have two main questions. One is: does anyone know of some really books/websites that could teach me sex education, explicitly enough to be not confusing, but in a Catholic way? I don’t really want to just jump into the internet with this, as you can find all sorts of things I don’t particularly want to see/read online.

Second question is about the specific problem I’m experiencing now. Kind of embarrassing, but here goes. Recently, I let my mind dwell on something that wasn’t sexual at all, but seemed to have a strange, possibly sexual, physical reaction to it. There was definitely some consent to this, although once it started getting more extreme I stopped. Now specifically… I find the idea of getting really drunk strangely attractive and repulsive at the same time (I have never done it myself as I am not at all a lightweight), and that’s what I was imagining.
So I’m scared to receive communion now. The problem is, I have had problems with both scrupulosity and the opposite (convincing myself that an actual legitimate sin was not a sin because I was being scrupulous). So everything’s fairly confusing, and I don’t know where I’m at.
Asking a priest is of course an option, but for one thing, I’m not very socially adept. In past confessions, if I’d tried to confess something I was confused or unsure about, I’d always come out realizing that I hadn’t talked about what I’d wanted to talk about AT ALL. And the priests often don’t understand me well either. (Communication by writing is SO MUCH EASIER.) So then I’d have to do the same thing over again. I’d REALLY prefer to have some idea of where I’m at with this before heading to confession.
And for another, I’m not sure if it’s his place to give me the sex education I should have had at a younger age.

Any help or suggestions would be appreciated. If not, then prayers. This sort of confusion has plagued me for a long time, and I’d like to finally take some steps to figure it out.
God bless.

First, Welcome to CAF. Bravo to you for confronting your issues. It takes a huge amount of courage and determination to begin asking the questions.

You might want to set up an appointment with your priest. Print out your post and take it with you. Explain to him how difficult it is for you to discuss this issue; but, reading will help you clearly define the issue. I do believe a priest can help you by answering some of your questions and pointing you in the right direction for the more explicit questions. I’m sure he could recommend some good books or sites that would be Catholic approved. I’m thinking “Theology of the Body” might be a good start.

The CAF group is a very loving group and I know you’ll get other suggestions. Take what you like and leave the rest.

And Pray. God already knows how difficult this is for you. I know he’ll help.

God Bless You

 

[Viki63]

Dear Darcia,
I am sorry you are having this confusion.
I suggest you take a look at Dr Colleen Kelly Mast’s books. She is a psychologist and therapist and has written some Catholic books on sex topics for teens and young adults. Here is the link to the store on her website.
I would be uncomfortable asking a priest for sex education. You might consider asking an older married woman in the parish if you can have coffee with her to discuss specific questions, Although if you are not engaged I am not sure what information you might need, Once you find yourself married it all comes pretty instinctively,
Getting drunk is a bad idea, I’m sure you are aware. Losing control of one’s thought processes never seemed very entertaining to me. I don’t recommend it,
Why would you hesitate to receive communion? It doesn’t sound like you sinned, rather that you found some of your thoughts confusing.
When in doubt, pray. Ask the Holy Spirit to cleanse your heart and mind that you may perfectly love him.
God bless.

 

[Isca]

I think it’s important for a young woman to understand exactly how things work, with regards to her body, sexuality and reproductive health. I remember talking to an Irish friend who was told by nuns that you could get pregnant by kissing. This blighted her teenage years and caused her great anxiety!

With respect to the poster above, it doesn’t all come naturally to everyone once they marry. I used to work with gynaecologists who told me that a fair number of people whom they saw for primary infertility hadn’t actually had sexual intercourse, even though they thought they had. The very first question they used to ask patients who were trying to conceive was ‘Are you having regular, unprotected sexual intercourse?’ Quite a few evidently thought they were, but actually weren’t!

 

[phil_at_dayboro]

I know what I’d like to say, but first might need a little more information,
Like your age, and a little background,
Education in this issue has alway been very sadly lacking in society ,
Although it has improved greatly, since the days of the stork flying above your house,
So many people only think of the most basics ,but that’s just not what it’s about,

Peace

 

[ClearWater]

In the ideal, we could go to our confessors for spiritual counseling. However, due to the shortage of priests, some don´t really have the time for that. I´ve seen that not only in my own experience, but have heard that, repeatedly, on the forum.

I once had a priest level with me, admit he was working 14-hour days.

So, the ideal place to address this may be with a priest, but realistically, due to the circumstances, it might be more practical to address any issues with a Catholic counselor, like through Catholic Social Services.

Well, you might need more than a few minutes here and there to discuss the issues.

With scrupulosity, it is my understanding that is a form of obsessive compulsive disorder. Obsessive compulsive order often is helped by counseling and/or medication.

My ex-husband has OCD, and I WISH he would have gone for the appropriate treatment.

Instead of going to a psychiatrist, he went to a regular MD for the symptoms, panic attacks. The doctor gave him an antidepressant, which did stop the panic attacks but did virtually nothing for the OCD.

Later, I went to a counselor, for myself, and I mentioned about his OCD, and she said it was a shame he wouldn´t get the proper medication. She said that was, relatively speaking, one of the easiest conditions to treat, if one had to have something.

Believe it or not, many people, through medication, are helped.

With counseling, it helps one manage OCD …or scrupulosity. Some people with OCD make typical mistakes. One typical mistake is in trying to resist an obsession. Generally, that does NOT work. It usually, if anything, makes the obsession even stronger!

Key is generally not to resist, basically to ignore, but I think it´d be better to hash this out with a professional counselor, who can give you the time you need, rather than a parish priest who will probably try to rush you through, due to the fact his focus isn´t necessarily counseling, but has many other responsibilities.

With counselors, that´s all they do…counsel. Also, since they are professionals, they may have hundreds, or thousands, of cases to draw on.

Oh, here´s something I wanted to include for you.

mission.liguori.org/newsletters/scrupulosity.htm

Our minds, and sexuality, especially, is quite complex. There are people who happen to have some kind of sexual experience that has happened when some other experience was going on. For some, from that point on, they begin to associate the two experiences, together, as one.

For example, there are people who have had pain, simultaneously, with pleasure…later begin to feel they NEED pain in order to experience pleasure, for instance. They associate the 2 experiences, as inseparable. This is actually extremely common.

For others, they associate an object or situation with sex. Again, this is SO common, more common than most people would even realize, I suspect.

Many people experience sort of a “trigger” event that sets the entire pattern into motion. For some people, the trigger event could be that one time they were experiencing pain, they had a sexual experience, for instance. From that moment forward, the 2 experiences, were one, inseparable. When we realize that, it’s actually understandable.
Some people can even tell you what the initial trigger was. Some remember it like it was yesterday.

Some people associate an object, say, with sex…a non-sexual object, like shoes, for instance. These people are quite real, often don´t even want to experience this, but there it is. In fact, some people are VERY upset by these thoughts.

If you happen to associate, for some reason, one experience, with sex, I hope you would stop beating yourself up for that. It happens, AND. I believe, the more you blame yourself for that, the worse it will be.

So, try to let it go. Try to accept that, for whatever reason(s), in your mind, you associate this non-sexual thing, or situation, with sex. Stop feeling guilty! Guilt only serves to help cement it! Let it go. Stop the guilt and blame, because, they are NOT helpful in this area.

Anyway, that´s my take on it. :twocents: Have a good day and Happy New Year! God bless you!

 

[darciaWells]

Thank you so much, everybody who replied. I’ve read threads here before, and everybody seemed quite kind and helpful. I’m glad they were with me too.

First, Welcome to CAF. Bravo to you for confronting your issues. It takes a huge amount of courage and determination to begin asking the questions.

You might want to set up an appointment with your priest. Print out your post and take it with you. Explain to him how difficult it is for you to discuss this issue; but, reading will help you clearly define the issue. I do believe a priest can help you by answering some of your questions and pointing you in the right direction for the more explicit questions. I’m sure he could recommend some good books or sites that would be Catholic approved. I’m thinking “Theology of the Body” might be a good start.

Hi Mummsie,
Thanks so much. It is taking a fair amount of courage to do this, so thanks for mentioning it.
It will be quite terrifying to talk to someone in person, like a priest, but I think I might have to. I’m in a new city right now, so the problem will be finding a priest that can help me. And as ClearWater mentioned, that can be quite difficult sometimes.

I suggest you take a look at Dr Colleen Kelly Mast’s books. She is a psychologist and therapist and has written some Catholic books on sex topics for teens and young adults.
…
Getting drunk is a bad idea, I’m sure you are aware. Losing control of one’s thought processes never seemed very entertaining to me. I don’t recommend it,
Why would you hesitate to receive communion? It doesn’t sound like you sinned, rather that you found some of your thoughts confusing.​

Thanks for the suggestions, Viki63. I will look at Dr. Mast’s books.
Yes, I’m not going to get drunk. I was simply picturing it in my head. However, I know that thoughts that are fully consented to can be as serious as the acts themselves. The hesitation to receive communion comes from the fact that I started to have a physical reaction to my imaginings, and continued, with consent, to imagine.

…] I remember talking to an Irish friend who was told by nuns that you could get pregnant by kissing. This blighted her teenage years and caused her great anxiety! …]

Yes, Isca, although I wasn’t told I could get pregnant by kissing, I didn’t really know how it happened, and it also made me quite anxious in my teenage years. Although not as anxious as it probably made her, as I was not very interested in boys for the most part. And I know how it happens now, haha. I just don’t know about my own body, and how it reacts to things.

I know what I’d like to say, but first might need a little more information,
Like your age, and a little background, …]

I appreciate your answer, Phil. I’m in my twenties. I’m not sure what kind of background you want, but I don’t really want to discuss too much of my personal life on the internet.

…]So, the ideal place to address this may be with a priest, but realistically, due to the circumstances, it might be more practical to address any issues with a Catholic counselor, like through Catholic Social Services.

Well, you might need more than a few minutes here and there to discuss the issues.

With scrupulosity, it is my understanding that is a form of obsessive compulsive disorder. Obsessive compulsive order often is helped by counseling and/or medication. …]

Hi ClearWater,
Thanks so much for your post. I will think about it, and decide what I want to do. A very close friend of mine has OCD as well as scrupulosity, and I think you’re right that they’re often linked.
I’m not sure if it’s the same circumstance for me, though. It was my impression that my scrupulosity came more from the general confusion of my mind. What happens is that I can see so many possible answers to a question all at once, and it’s difficult to differentiate between them. Because I know that I am biased towards myself, I often go with the “it was wrong” answer, because it seems more likely if I’m biased. However sometimes, I go with the opposite, and decide something was fine when it wasn’t.
Whereas with my close friend, it’s more of a compulsion.
The link you sent me was helpful, though. I’m going to try to keep some of them in mind.
And as far as I know, I haven’t had an experience with drunkenness that would associate it with sex in any particular way. My childhood in all ways but my sex education and the associated anxiety was particularly happy and carefree.
But I’ll think about counselling. It’s kind of terrifying, but it might be worth it. I don’t have anyone I can really talk to about this kind of thing, so it could help quite a lot.
Thanks again.

 

[1ke]

You need to be under the care of a spiritual director who is trained to deal with scrupulosity.

If you also have OCD or intrusive thoughts, get help from a therapist as well as your spiritual director.

Regarding how learning more about how reproduction works, look for a local class on natural family planning or fertility awareness. Many dioceses offer these classes or refer to others that do.

 

[darciaWells]

You need to be under the care of a spiritual director who is trained to deal with scrupulosity.

If you also have OCD or intrusive thoughts, get help from a therapist as well as your spiritual director.

Regarding how learning more about how reproduction works, look for a local class on natural family planning or fertility awareness. Many dioceses offer these classes or refer to others that do.

Thanks 1ke. I don’t think I have OCD. I have a close friend with OCD and know a bit about it.
I need to know more about my own body, less about reproduction per se. So less “how to have sex” and more “what is arousal” and that sort of question. So that I know if things that have happened are sinful or not. Specifically I was wondering about my physical reaction to some thoughts recently, and whether it was gravely sinful to consent to keep dwelling on those thoughts for a little longer. This is the most recent example, and the one I want to figure out first so I know whether I am in a state of sin or not.
Hopefully I can find a spiritual director who can help. I’ve just moved to a new place, though, so it might be difficult. Prayers would be appreciated.

 

[PaulinVA]

I general, if you genuinely wonder whether you have committed a mortal sin, you have not, since knowing it is grave and consenting is required.

 

[1ke]

I need to know more about my own body, less about reproduction per se. So less “how to have sex” and more “what is arousal” and that sort of question.

You are not going to find that in a book.

So that I know if things that have happened are sinful or not. Specifically I was wondering about my physical reaction to some thoughts recently, and whether it was gravely sinful to consent to keep dwelling on those thoughts for a little longer. This is the most recent example, and the one I want to figure out first so I know whether I am in a state of sin or not.

This is 100% your scrupulosity at work. You need to talk to your pastor.

 

[Miss_Felicity]

I haven’t read the rest of the responses but I think you should look into seeing a sex educator, preferably a certified one. If you feel more comfortable you can seek one who is Catholic or has a background in education geared towards Catholics. You will find that some people have done study in various religions and specialize in tailoring the educational experience to fit within your religious paradigm. Any sex educator should be able to gear your session(s) towards your needs, even if there is not a Catholic one in your area. Just make sure in your initial interview or consult that you are clear that you are a practicing Catholic and a professional worth their salt will be happy to go over things with you with language and content that you are comfortable with. HTH

 

[joanofarc2008]

1ke is correct about considering spiritual counseling. You may wish to also consider finding a woman so there are not boundary issues. There are women who have gone to school for pastoral counseling and have gone through spiritual direction programs approved by Bishops in different areas.

 

[Estevao]

I’d recommend the following books to learn about sexual ethics in order of depth and difficulty:

-Called to Love: Approaching John Paul II’s Theology of the Body by Carl Anderson and Jose Granados
-Love and Responsibility by Karol Wojtyla (Pope John Paul II)
-One Body: An Essay in Christian Sexual Ethics by Alexander Pruss

I haven’t read her but if you wanted a book by a woman on the subject I’ve heard good things about Alice von Hildebrand’s books.

 

[darciaWells]

This is 100% your scrupulosity at work. You need to talk to your pastor.

Thanks for the (name removed by moderator)ut 1ke. How are you so sure it is scrupulosity? I understand that I would not have committed a grave sin if I was not sure whether it was grave or not. But all the same, if one’s not sure, one should find out as soon as possible. And I definitely consented to continuing with my thoughts.
I am definitely going to try to find some spiritual counselling or some such person to talk to, but I would still appreciate some (name removed by moderator)ut. Thanks for what you’ve given so far.

1ke is correct about considering spiritual counseling. You may wish to also consider finding a woman so there are not boundary issues…

I think this is a very good idea. I’m new to my area, so it might be difficult, but I’m going to try. Having a woman would make it much easier for me, I think.

I’d recommend the following books to learn about sexual ethics in order of depth and difficulty: …]

Thanks, Estevao. I’ll look into those, although I think they’re more geared towards sexual morality, which is not quite my problem. I know what’s moral and why, I’m just not sure how, if that makes sense.

And thank you again to everyone who’s replied. It’s been helpful, and given me some direction, and some courage to go in that direction.

 

[joanofarc2008]

Depending on the area you are in there are a couple different ways to go to find someone. The diocese may have a counseling center that can match you with someone that has had the proper training. In Boston here the Franciscan Center also keeps a list of Spiritual Directors and matches people. I have found almost any major shrine or Center will have this type of service.