Sexual Identity Labels and the Breakdown of Marriage and Family

[erine]

Why does it seem like everyone, including plenty of devout catholics I know, is so obsessed with labeling people based on their sexual feelings at different moments? Even labeling someone as no more than a SSA person is so offensive. If we think it’s absurd that some people believe in horoscopes and believe there are only 12 types of humans, why is it okay to say there’s only like 5 or 6 types of humans (straight, lesbian, bi, gay, pansexual, queer, questioning whatever else they have nowadays.

I think this is linked to the breakdown of family life. It is written in the catechism that there is a fundamental tension between man and woman due to our differences and the fall of man. it is easier for men to get along with men and women with women because we are similar. But now since all human person are is apparently the sum of their sexual attractions and experiences, desired or not, suddenly if women get along as friends they are probably lesbians and if men are close friends and not married they are gay. Even in celibate catholic circles there are knowing winks and nods. I have had people suggest I am a lesbian because right now I am very aware of my extremely strong attraction to men and the fact that I am not emotionally stable and therefore am purposely shutting down my flirtations with men because I know they are probably not best for me right now. The absolute last thing I need is people to decide therefore that since all I am is my sexual identity (which they have pegged completely wrong) I am now somehow forced to be denied family life and a future.

I am not lusting after every man who hits on me so I am therefore no longer allowed to be seen as heterosexual by the community? What?

And why is “coming out” the answer to life these days? It’s like people grow up and realize they are in a fallen state and they feel pain a lot of the time and uncomfortable, but since the doctrine of original sin has fallen out of favor, “coming out” as gay is suddenly the new redemption.

I am mostly just shocked by catholics who want to act like they are these stereotypes and anyone who acts in their idea of a deviant personality, which is basically not a cookie cutter, is SSA or just not normal. I’ve even heard that almost no one is 100% straight, in which case all of these people are hypocrites.

I am just seeing a connection between the breakdown of marriage and this insistence on putting everyone into the tiniest box based on the silliest things, like past abuse, or what kind of shirts people where or what mannerisms they have. It makes me really upset.

I am a woman who wants to be united with a man but is very picky (That is another trend I see–if you are picky it’s because secretly you are gay! If you are a girl who notices girls that are beautiful, you are gay! This is sooo bad for marriage and family) And I currently also enjoy friendships with women. Men and women need close friendships with the same sex. Especially when they are single.
I don’t know, why can’t people rise above this and just see humans as humans who should not fornicate? Most people I’ve spoken to who identified as gay or had a same sex sexual relationship admitted it was a lifestyle choice and or were abused and forced into it during formative years; some of the gay men were attracted to me, and many changed and got married to the opposite sex. It is so silly. I don’t mean to offend anyone who claims they were SSA from birth I have just heard so many testimonies that go against this idea. I have had smug catholics say “I don’t struggle with SSA” and then glare at me. Um…okay, that’s weird because I never thought I struggled with SSA until a bunch of random girls hit on me (CATHOLICS) and told me I did, and some really silly single guys told me I did because I act different sometimes. Great. So now I’m not allowed to have my true love because I am labelled?

I know I can one day but because my trust in men is broken right now I know I am not attracting the best guys and my strong attraction to men right now is forcing me to avoid the near occasion of sin by not getting too close. I have this deep desire to be with a man but I sort of can’t form the bond right now, and it’s a nightmare. And I think it is so evil that many people who are probably in my same position are being pressured by even the catholics around them to just give up and identify with this sick lifestyle and this degrading stereotype.

I know there are catholics that are really just not interested in the opposite sex and want to be celibate and I have nothing but respect for that. I just think there are also a lot of people, based on my observations going to secular schools and my experiences here and research, who probably deep down do want to be united with someone of the opposite sex in holy matrimony, but feel pressured to fit some label based on some past experience or other people’s judgments, and get denied that vocation.

I think that there is a big big difference between being purely SSA / “gay” / “lesbian” / “bi” / “queer” and simply being unable to form a permanent bond with the opposite sex because our culture is so degraded and masculinity and femininity have come under such serious attack. I think the problem is this lack of ability to bond, and it doesn’t make people SSA by default. I think people need to learn how to bond with the opposite sex in a healthy and traditional way.

Next thing you know, the fact the all men are “feminized before God” (Chesterton) and the male saints who had a spousal relationship with Christ are going to be labelled SSA (I jest, but you see my point)

We need to pray.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

Erine,

Reading through your post, I feel like you’re deeply hurt because some people you care about have been challenging your femininity, or saying that because you might recognize the beauty of women, you must be gay. If I’m right about that, the people who said these things did something very wrong. You might want to recognize this as a source of pain in your life, and present it to Christ for His mercy.

I agree that it is wrong to label other people, especially if you are labeling them on the basis on something other than their actions. However, I don’t think it’s wrong for people to use adjectives or phrases to describe themselves. I am a man who deals with a great deal of sexual attraction to other men. As such, I occasionally tell people I have SSA. I don’t think it’s a big deal, and I don’t think that I am labeling my sexual identity.

Blessings, Prodigal

 

[LisaA]

Very sorry for your experience and I agree that there is so much labeling these days. What purpose does it serve, other than for political operatives who are trying to take advantage of peoples’ differences to demonize one group or the other.

I think one of the unfortunate results making public what should be private sex lives as if everyone has a need to know, is the desire to organize and categorize instead of just co-exist. In the bad old days when people didn’t spend two seconds wondering if Suzy were a closet Lesbian or if Joe’s somewhat effete manner means he’s gay, there was far less labeling, particularly with respect to sexual activities. Further this has made close Platonic friendships incredibly suspect when they are not. Certainly in generations past, men had close personal friends with which they may walk arm in arm or sleep in the same bed when travelling (remember the big “is Lincoln gay?” meme because he was known to share a room with a friend when they traveled) without anyone pointing fingers or labeling them as homosexual.

As to the labels, they are utterly ridiculous as sexuality is a continuum, and changes over time. How many of us remember being small children and stating we were going to “marry” our best friends rather than the opposite sex? I did and frankly never had the SLIGHTEST SSA once hitting puberty. Little kids may have sexual feelings but no context (for example small children enjoy their bodies, may explore with friends) Thus bands of little boys or little girls will have virtually zero deliberate contact with the other sex …I mean EWWWWWW boys have germs! Girls have cooties!

Also people do experiment and explore. Doesn’t mean one thing or the other and as you’ve said people are so quick to label that I think many confused kids end up being lobbied toward the gay lifestyle when they are just not sure of their feelings.

As to appreciating beautiful women…good grief. How many fashion magazines are out there and who reads them? Men? I often notice a lovely woman and will compliment her on her appearance, hair, clothing…and it doesn’t mean I want to start pawing on her…geez.

It truly sounds like you have encountered some really immature and overly opinionated individuals. You have the right attitude in my opinion and please do not be swayed by those who are slaves to pop culture or political correctness. It is the loss of traditional values and standards that has created utter chaos in many communities. Embracing a high standard for yourself in every way is a much clearer road to lasting happiness.

Lisa

 

[Zachary]

Gays label themselves more than anyone does it for them. From “bears” to queens… Then they complain when they’re labeled. Paradoxically, of course.

 

[St_Francis]

Erine,
I don’t have anything mew to add, but I wanted to just say you seem to have it down, and are surrounded by people who… don’t get it.

I am sorry they are giving you a hard time. It seems like our society has become so sexualized that that is the *only *way for people to relate!

 

[Miss_Felicity]

Gays label themselves more than anyone does it for them. From “bears” to queens… Then they complain when they’re labeled. Paradoxically, of course.

Did you even read the OP? BTW “bears and queens” ARE two of several labels in the LGBTQ community but unless you have experience in or around that community they don’t help your argument very much Either way again thats not what the OP is getting at.

 

[EasterJoy]

Did someone dare label you as homosexual or asexual because you aren’t inclined to date anyone available to you? Really? Somebody needs to learn to mind their own business.

One correct answer to that rude busybody goes like this:* I beg your pardon? What would possess you to make a personal comment like that? Since I can foresee the day when I might actually find a man I want to date, I’ll thank you to not start any baseless rumors out of an idle need to put people into a box for your…amusement? *Why would you do that? Did I pass over someone you were trying to set me up with, or something? What, you’re the parish matchmaker? The members of this parish are all fully capable of sharing the secrets they choose when they choose and to whom they choose. Throwing around wild guesses about what secrets people may or may not have chosen to tell you is not helpful and it is not nice. Cut it out, and I mean it.

 

[erine]

Erine,

Reading through your post, I feel like you’re deeply hurt because some people you care about have been challenging your femininity, or saying that because you might recognize the beauty of women, you must be gay. If I’m right about that, the people who said these things did something very wrong. You might want to recognize this as a source of pain in your life, and present it to Christ for His mercy.

I agree that it is wrong to label other people, especially if you are labeling them on the basis on something other than their actions. However, I don’t think it’s wrong for people to use adjectives or phrases to describe themselves. I am a man who deals with a great deal of sexual attraction to other men. As such, I occasionally tell people I have SSA. I don’t think it’s a big deal, and I don’t think that I am labeling my sexual identity.

Blessings, Prodigal

Thanks. I am hurt bc earlier people were imply I was bad because I was too attracted to men. I realized I needed to heal so I asked The Lord to get that attraction under control and now a few people think I’m not straight! I may have exaggerated how many in my frustration, but still. It’s not their judgement but the notion that therefore I must in their minds not be allowed family one day that hurts. Since my family is so broken and yet I want my own one day this is a sore spot.

The main question is why do they care …

Btw of course I’m celibate and I realize caring too much what ppl think can be a sin. It is hard though! I imagine its somewhat a spiritual attack since I’ve been more strongly discerning marriage in my future one day

For the record now I am calmer there are a lot of good people who get it and see things how I do

As for labels I meant when people only identify as SSA and not as a person struggling with is. But I meant it more from outsiders like you said. As for secular labels I think they are encouraged and always wrong. People shouldn’t be forced into a tiny role even if they think they want to call themselves gay or whatever. See I knew people that did astrology a long time ago and they just became “I’m such an Aquarius and I hate scorpios” like a caricature with no room for change or growth. That mindset applied to sexuality and fornication lifestyle I find insulting to the human person.

 

[erine]

I don’t think people “come out” because they are “uncomfortable”.
I think people “come out” because they are tired of living a lie and tired of telling themself that what they are is bad and should be kept a secret. That kind of thinking makes a person ill.
A person who is homosexual doesn’t have to have sex if their religion tells them it’s a sin, of course. But even though…it is good to be honest about who you are and the pope himself “welcomes” it’s gay, Catholic members with open arms.
The point is not to be ashamed of yourself.
And as per the CC, there is no sin in having this orientation, therefore nothing to be ashamed of and nothing to hide.

.

Okay yes of course, is someone is truly SSA and never going to change. If that is the case I am all for self honesty though I don’t think it has to be all about announcing it to the world. And if they are celibate it’s all good.

I am talking about something else entirely. This is not PC but I hate PC anyways so it’s fine. I am talking about a number of people I have encountered who I don’t believe are genuinely purely SSA and many of whom admit they are just trying a new lifestyle or were abused at a young age, who come out for the exact reasons I stated above and are then stuck with a label for the rest of their lives. Except of course for the ones who later realize they want marriage and family and go through some healing and aren’t solely attracted to the same sex anymore. This kind of thing happens all the time. That is why I am so upset by people who might be in this latter category but who have been pressured by our sick culture to make being SSA their entire identity and can’t break out of the lifestyle when perhaps many of them want to in their hearts.

I’m sorry but I was forced to take these weird post modern sexuality classes in school and I saw way too many people and talked to other friends who had similar courses in college, who were hetero and later in life went on to get married, who suddenly because (insert extreme label here) – they labelled themselves – and were dating members of the same sex. But they never did that behavior until they had their brainwashing classes. Persuaded to try the lifestyle, and when they left that environment they got married and stuff.

That is not self honesty that is experimentation with a deviant lifestyle that hurt their sexualities and their souls.

In the bible it just talks about how some people used to do orgies and bad sexual behavior and so forth but now they don’t because they are in Christ. It didn’t say anything about nature…not that I am saying some people aren’t “born that way” I just a lot fewer are born that way than we pretend, and a lot of people in the lifestyle were in no way “born that way.”

 

[erine]

Very sorry for your experience and I agree that there is so much labeling these days. What purpose does it serve, other than for political operatives who are trying to take advantage of peoples’ differences to demonize one group or the other.

I think one of the unfortunate results making public what should be private sex lives as if everyone has a need to know, is the desire to organize and categorize instead of just co-exist. In the bad old days when people didn’t spend two seconds wondering if Suzy were a closet Lesbian or if Joe’s somewhat effete manner means he’s gay, there was far less labeling, particularly with respect to sexual activities. Further this has made close Platonic friendships incredibly suspect when they are not. Certainly in generations past, men had close personal friends with which they may walk arm in arm or sleep in the same bed when travelling (remember the big “is Lincoln gay?” meme because he was known to share a room with a friend when they traveled) without anyone pointing fingers or labeling them as homosexual.

As to the labels, they are utterly ridiculous as sexuality is a continuum, and changes over time. How many of us remember being small children and stating we were going to “marry” our best friends rather than the opposite sex? I did and frankly never had the SLIGHTEST SSA once hitting puberty. Little kids may have sexual feelings but no context (for example small children enjoy their bodies, may explore with friends) Thus bands of little boys or little girls will have virtually zero deliberate contact with the other sex …I mean EWWWWWW boys have germs! Girls have cooties!

Also people do experiment and explore. Doesn’t mean one thing or the other and as you’ve said people are so quick to label that I think many confused kids end up being lobbied toward the gay lifestyle when they are just not sure of their feelings.

As to appreciating beautiful women…good grief. How many fashion magazines are out there and who reads them? Men? I often notice a lovely woman and will compliment her on her appearance, hair, clothing…and it doesn’t mean I want to start pawing on her…geez.

It truly sounds like you have encountered some really immature and overly opinionated individuals. You have the right attitude in my opinion and please do not be swayed by those who are slaves to pop culture or political correctness. It is the loss of traditional values and standards that has created utter chaos in many communities. Embracing a high standard for yourself in every way is a much clearer road to lasting happiness.

Lisa

Thank you. This is the voice of reason I used to hear as a kid before I knew about the LGBT stuff.

 

[erine]

Erine,
I don’t have anything mew to add, but I wanted to just say you seem to have it down, and are surrounded by people who… don’t get it.

I am sorry they are giving you a hard time. It seems like our society has become so sexualized that that is the *only *way for people to relate!

thank you
I feel a lot better now, I realized I’m not crazy

 

[erine]

Did someone dare label you as homosexual or asexual because you aren’t inclined to date anyone available to you? Really? Somebody needs to learn to mind their own business.

One correct answer to that rude busybody goes like this:* I beg* your pardon? What would possess you to make a personal comment like that? Since I can foresee the day when I might actually find a man I want to date, I’ll thank you to not start any baseless rumors out of an idle need to put people into a box for your…amusement? *Why *would you do that? Did I pass over someone you were trying to set me up with, or something? What, you’re the parish matchmaker? The members of this parish are all fully capable of sharing the secrets they choose when they choose and to whom they choose. Throwing around wild guesses about what secrets people may or may not have chosen to tell you is not helpful and it is not nice. Cut it out, and I mean it.

amen!

 

[EasterJoy]

amen!

Even people who really do have SSA would thank the others in their parish for not finding their particular struggle the topic of idle conjecture and gossip. There is virtue to be found in minding one’s own business. As for heterosexuals who are (for whatever reason), constantly being mistaken for homosexuals by people who are not in the know, both straight and gay, and every kind of person who keeps getting “set up” when they are not looking to get set up, it gets exceedingly tiresome. Why anyone thinks this kind of meddling would be helpful, even if they are right, I’m sure I don’t know. Generally speaking, when people want help to find dates or help to fend off suitors, they know how to get the word out themselves.

 

[Zachary]

Did you even read the OP? BTW “bears and queens” ARE two of several labels in the LGBTQ community but unless you have experience in or around that community they don’t help your argument very much Either way again thats not what the OP is getting at.

My bad.

 

[LisaA]

Even people who really do have SSA would thank the others in their parish for not finding their particular struggle the topic of idle conjecture and gossip. There is virtue to be found in minding one’s own business. As for heterosexuals who are (for whatever reason), constantly being mistaken for homosexuals by people who are not in the know, both straight and gay, and every kind of person who keeps getting “set up” when they are not looking to get set up, it gets exceedingly tiresome. Why anyone thinks this kind of meddling would be helpful, even if they are right, I’m sure I don’t know. Generally speaking, when people want help to find dates or help to fend off suitors, they know how to get the word out themselves.

Amen to the above. As the OP noted, there is too much ‘sharing’ whether it’s one’s own or speculation about others’ sex lives. I’m not sure of the reasoning about this somewhat ridiculous idea that you cannot be “genuine” if you don’t let it all hang out…figuratively as well as literally. As you said, something to be said for minding your own business and also keeping your private life to yourself.

I think it is particularly damaging when a vulnerable and confused young person is preyed upon by either sex. The breakdown of barriers, traditions and social norms is not a positive for society, especially those who are conflicted about themselves and their feelings and impulses. They do not need to be pushed or manipulated into behavior and activities are potentially self destructive.

Lisa

 

[57thDimension]

The absolute last thing I need is people to decide therefore that since all I am is my sexual identity (which they have pegged completely wrong) I am now somehow forced to be denied family life and a future.

This is potentially dangerous as it creates a feedback loop, in the sense that if people think you have (exclusively) a SSA (and tell others what they think), then men won’t/may not date you and/or will misinterpret your conveyances as being non-romantic (in the future, when you decide to date, that is) thus feeding back into the loop. All the more reason for people to not engage in such guessing and rumor-spreading.

+Sebastian

 

[holyrood]

Erine, I’m sorry for what you’ve been put through. You’re right, the amount of labeling revolving around sexual tastes is insane. And it baffles me why this world wants to define people solely by that. Your experience, to me, is just one more reason why private matters should have been left private.

I have a friend who labeled her daughter lesbian when her daughter was four. When she explained why–based on one comment the little girl made–I could only think that in any other day and age, it would have been obvious that the comment was a completely innocent, non-sexual statement that reflected how her father had been behaving, and had NOTHING whatsoever to do with sexual attraction to other girls! But…the world being what it is, her mother being who she is, this little girl has now been told for probably ten years that she’s a lesbian. I can’t even imagine the damage this has done to her.

Is this a problem mainly at your current church? If so, would you consider moving to a different one? For what it’s worth, I’m in a similar position of having my mother (of all people) telling people at my church things about me that are just not true. I refuse to leave because my children are happy and well-connected there, but I’ve had to take the attitude of simply holding my head up, being the best person I can be, and trying not to worry what anyone else believes. But I certainly feel for what you’re going through.

My prayers are with you.

 

[chevalier]

I’ve been called gay because I’m male, 30 and unmarried. Guess what? It had already happened years before when I simply didn’t show off a girlfriend. (No matter that I very well might have been pursuing someone at the time.)

And also because I have a best buddy who’s also a close neighbour, so we ended up walking his dog together and talking, some 15 years.

I don’t care. That’s little different from when people try to imply I’m less male for stuff like not having a driving licence. Or even not being interested in soccer/football, not being actively interested in DIY and household repairs etc. Who cares?

I’ll live on my life. I’ll take walks with my buddy (this or any other, male or female – now that’s material for gossip of a different kind), I won’t go get a driving licence or a car that’d be of no use for me. I won’t watch any more footie than I genuinely care to, and I will call the plumber, the electrician or anybody else I need, and pay him out of the money I earn pursuing my own profession.

Don’t be so held back and held down by what other people think and say, especially idle gossipers. Among adults, it’s really hard for one or two such people to make literally everybody else really think that you’re homo- or asexual. And even if so, you should be leaving that particular environment in favour of a healthier one.

If I have regrets, I have them from conforming, like when I allowed myself to be discouraged from learning because girls didn’t like that. They didn’t like me anyway, while I never regained the same mental clarity and ease of absorbing information that I had as a child and in my earlier teens. Shouldn’t have given in.

 

[erine]

all of these replies are helping me a lot and I am starting to feel sane again. the problem is that anyone who is suggestible, like that poor 4 year old who is being told she is a lesbian, or someone like me who puts too much stock in other people’s opinions and reactions towards me, is going to be really confused when people say these things. i guess sex as an idol and sexuality as an idol is just really really bad in this time. it’s just so immature, is the only word i can think of. i feel like kids had more common sense in third grade than adults do now on this topic.

I only have this problem with some people in community and not my main core group and the ones i am close to who implied it i think i will just ignore and or some of them kind of half took it back and i’ll accept that

it’s just so horrible to do this kind of thing to anyone.

 

[erine]

This is potentially dangerous as it creates a feedback loop, in the sense that if people think you have (exclusively) a SSA (and tell others what they think), then men won’t/may not date you and/or will misinterpret your conveyances as being non-romantic (in the future, when you decide to date, that is) thus feeding back into the loop. All the more reason for people to not engage in such guessing and rumor-spreading.

+Sebastian

Exactly that is what I want to avoid especially since ironically on all of this part of the problem has been experiences of falling in love with a man i know from community. and when this happened i became so very attracted to him that others seemed less attractive. and i don’t have any idea of the future but the point is i prefer to be with someone from community. and not a stranger i met somewhere. so hopefully this gets under control but what you said is what got to me so much. it wasn’t oh no what do people think, it was the implication that if they start telling people that i am not able to have marriage and family and try to force me into a calling to celibacy that is not mine, that is just incredibly hurtful and damaging. i have no doubt none of them mean to do this to me in the slightest and for all i know some might think they are helping, but it is so sick to try to force someone into believing and tell other potential husbands that this person is just not allowed to be married, to be open to life because we just decided that she isn’t. it’s a subtle tyranny and it’s none of their business. so wrong.

and then before when i tried to be more open about my desire for marriage and interest in men people thought i was just one of those girls who was desperate for marriage.

ahhh i can’t win. lol. i am just going to keep praying to God and tell him to just keep all men out of my life (romantically) except the right one, and the right one won’t buy into any rumors and nonsense.

still, the harm it does to my psyche was not cool.

I think this obsession with sexual identity is one of the silliest and yet one of the most damaging phenomenons of our time