Sexual Molestation & the Liturgy

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This discussion has strayed from its original topic of the seriousness of liturgical abuse. Please return to the original topic under discussion. There are plenty of threads in the various Forums discussing Traditionalist issues.
 
Julian Peters:
This discussion has strayed from its original topic of the seriousness of liturgical abuse. Please return to the original topic under discussion. There are plenty of threads in the various Forums discussing Traditionalist issues.
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What’s a “Traditionalist”?
 
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Crusader:
Let me ask you this first. What do you think would happen if the Mass ceased to be celebrated here on earth?
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What you forget about me? I am interested in seeing what kind of abuse rivals Child Abuse.

Peace 🙂
Jermosh
 
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Jermosh:
What you forget about me? I am interested in seeing what kind of abuse rivals Child Abuse.

Peace 🙂
Jermosh
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Answer question #9 first.
 
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Crusader:
Given the condition of the Church in the USA in say 1965, I would say on average (there are certainly exceptions), the US bishops have done an abysmal job of leading the Church in the USA for the past 40 years.
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sorry, I can’t let a slam like this against all bishops pass without rebuttal. it is pointless and useless for discussion to make general accusations like this which disregard the many fine bishops, and disregard the fact that, like it or not, the bishops are appointed by the pope, who like Jesus, works with the material at hand.
 
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asquared:
sorry, I can’t let a slam like this against all bishops pass without rebuttal. it is pointless and useless for discussion to make general accusations like this which disregard the many fine bishops, and disregard the fact that, like it or not, the bishops are appointed by the pope, who like Jesus, works with the material at hand.
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My comments are not pointed at “all” bishops…
 
Crusaders,

You are correct in your wise insight regarding the seriousness of liturgical abuse and its relationship to the absolute horror of child molestation and other kinds of sexual predation by priests. The horror I have seen, and have responded to in Mass by getting up, saying that it was wrong and walking out, is that of lay people preaching, which, BTW, was just again condemned and proscribed specifically by Rome.

How is it worse than child sexual abuse? Now, when the Church determines that a priest is guilty of such a horrible crime, he is removed. When a priest and or bishop authorizes a layman to preach the homily at Sunday Mass, and call it that brazenly, what does the Church do? So far, in many places, nothing, and the poor congregation mostly sits there like bumps on a log. What is going on? It IS CHILD ABUSE. The priest is abusing the Children of God in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass by making them participants in direct disobedience, and in many cases, bad homilizing, and worse, tempting the Faithful to identify and side with the Disobedient. Who needs King Henry VIII? Don’t look now, but…

So it IS abuse, and as horrible as physical sexual abuse of children is, the spiritual abuse of the Children of God within the Mass, is unspeakably horrible, and to witness it first hand is a great sorrow. Pray for all those dioceses and parishes, and bishops, priests, lay “preachers” (if this applies to you, please STOP it), and the poor Children of God who are being abused in their thousands every Sunday at Mass.
 
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DaveH:
Crusaders,

You are correct in your wise insight regarding the seriousness of liturgical abuse and its relationship to the absolute horror of child molestation and other kinds of sexual predation by priests. The horror I have seen, and have responded to in Mass by getting up, saying that it was wrong and walking out, is that of lay people preaching, which, BTW, was just again condemned and proscribed specifically by Rome.

How is it worse than child sexual abuse? Now, when the Church determines that a priest is guilty of such a horrible crime, he is removed. When a priest and or bishop authorizes a layman to preach the homily at Sunday Mass, and call it that brazenly, what does the Church do? So far, in many places, nothing, and the poor congregation mostly sits there like bumps on a log. What is going on? It IS CHILD ABUSE. The priest is abusing the Children of God in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass by making them participants in direct disobedience, and in many cases, bad homilizing, and worse, tempting the Faithful to identify and side with the Disobedient. Who needs King Henry VIII? Don’t look now, but…

So it IS abuse, and as horrible as physical sexual abuse of children is, the spiritual abuse of the Children of God within the Mass, is unspeakably horrible, and to witness it first hand is a great sorrow. Pray for all those dioceses and parishes, and bishops, priests, lay “preachers” (if this applies to you, please STOP it), and the poor Children of God who are being abused in their thousands every Sunday at Mass.
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You make a very powerful point.

The bottom line is if most Bishops responded to liturgical abuse as they did (fianlly) to child abuse and homosexual rape, the Church would be in FAR better shape in the USA today.
 
Two little thoughts here. I think there is a need to distinguish between the people who have an attachment to the Tridentine and the people who think that VII was the cause of all evil, not inspired by the Holy Spirit, the only way to save the Church is to get rid of the Novus Ordo, etc.,etc., etc… In our neck of the woods the former is called a Traditionalist and there’s nothing wrong with them. The latter, to avoid confusion, we have affectionately dubbed rad-Trads. I’m sure they don’t like it but we needed to make sure that no blame was being laid on the poor Traditionalists!

My second little thought is that if they bishops focused as much on the liturgical abuse scandal as the child abuse scandal there might be far less of the latter!!!
 
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bear06:
Two little thoughts here. I think there is a need to distinguish between the people who have an attachment to the Tridentine and the people who think that VII was the cause of all evil, not inspired by the Holy Spirit, the only way to save the Church is to get rid of the Novus Ordo, etc.,etc., etc… In our neck of the woods the former is called a Traditionalist and there’s nothing wrong with them. The latter, to avoid confusion, we have affectionately dubbed rad-Trads. I’m sure they don’t like it but we needed to make sure that no blame was being laid on the poor Traditionalists!

My second little thought is that if they bishops focused as much on the liturgical abuse scandal as the child abuse scandal there might be far less of the latter!!!
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We call them “Catholics who like the Tridentine Mass” and “Protestants” around here.

Agreed.
 
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Crusader:
We call them “Catholics who like the Tridentine Mass” and “Protestants” around here.

Agreed.
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I’m always praying that somehow a lack of culpability will somehow save them from this (although I’m not sure how!) but I’m sure you are right. Rad-Trads just save me from having to hear how judgmental I am.
 
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Crusader:
We call them “Catholics who like the Tridentine Mass” and “Protestants” around here.

Agreed.
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how vulgar can your posts get? Even if I have never have attended an SSPX Mass, but believe that our future is the TLM[with no NO Mass]
I am a schismatic?
 
Jermosh,

Since you are a new convert I must add some words. Satan attacks Christ Church on a routine bases. In fact, Satan attacks any good pious Christian. You will find problems in any of the various Christian faiths.

The Catholic Church is the biggest target for Satan because G*d himself stated Satan will never prevail. Remember, “… and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it…”

However, this doesn’t mean Satan can’t get his foot in the door every now an then.
 
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katolik:
how vulgar can your posts get? Even if I have never have attended an SSPX Mass, but believe that our future is the TLM[with no NO Mass]
I am a schismatic?
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What the heck does that even mean?
 
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Crusader:
What the heck does that even mean?
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That I believe that in the future the normative Mass of the Post Vatican II era shall be abrogated and that the Traditional Latin Mass, the Mass of Padre Pio, St.Stanislaw Kostka, St.Carlo Bellarmine, St.Alphonsus Ligouri, St.Louis Marie Grignon Montfort, St.Andrew Bobola,St.Catherine Laboure,St.Josaphat,The Korean Martyrs, THe Vietnamese martyrs, St.Therese of the Child Jesus, St/Sr…Faustina, Pope St.Pius X, Pope Bl. John XXIII, Venereable Pope Pius XII, Venerable Pope Pius IX, and many more, shall be once again the Official Mass of the Roman/Latin Rite
 
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katolik:
That I believe that in the future the normative Mass of the Post Vatican II era shall be abrogated and that the Traditional Latin Mass, the Mass of Padre Pio, St.Stanislaw Kostka, St.Carlo Bellarmine, St.Alphonsus Ligouri, St.Louis Marie Grignon Montfort, St.Andrew Bobola,St.Catherine Laboure,St.Josaphat,The Korean Martyrs, THe Vietnamese martyrs, St.Therese of the Child Jesus, St/Sr…Faustina, Pope St.Pius X, Pope Bl. John XXIII, Venereable Pope Pius XII, Venerable Pope Pius IX, and many more, shall be once again the Official Mass of the Roman/Latin Rite
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I think you’re dreaming but I wouldn’t say that this belief would consitute schism. I’m guessing this might not be all you believe and some of those beliefs might constitute schism but, like I said, I’m just guessing.

Just as an aside. how upsetting is it to you that a saint has been canonized that said the Novus Ordo? I’m sure they’ll be more of these to come.
 
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OrthoCath:
Jermosh,

Since you are a new convert I must add some words. Satan attacks Christ Church on a routine bases. In fact, Satan attacks any good pious Christian. You will find problems in any of the various Christian faiths.

The Catholic Church is the biggest target for Satan because G*d himself stated Satan will never prevail. Remember, “… and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it…”

However, this doesn’t mean Satan can’t get his foot in the door every now an then.
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Oh I know this. Satan is very powerfull and uses disguises all the time.
But my question is and its still unanswered. What kind of liturgical abuse would contend with Child rape/abuse? Again I am not trying to be sarcastic, but it just makes no sense to me.
 
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