Sexual morality, secular humanism and Catholic teaching - an overlap?

[FiveLinden]

I found mysef with nothing much to think about and nothing much in the way of distractions so I started thinking my way through Catholic sexual morality and comparing it to my own.

Not much of an overlap in the Venn diagram I’m afraid. In modern western societies I am broadly in favour of monogamy (at least concurrent monogamy).

But I can’t really think of much else.

Anyone with any ideas about overlap in Church teaching and secular humanism (to use the term people here seem to apply to me; i.e. non believing, equality-supporting, gay-friendly etc.?)

I can think of lots of other areas where my views overlap: respect for people and their right to a good name, honesty, love of neighbour, concern for the poor, limitations on violence, proscription of nuclear weapons etc.

I am not here arguing against Church teaching, it’s just that when I thought about it I had not realised how different my views are in this area.

 

[Rob2]

limitations on violence, proscription of nuclear weapons etc.

Some Catholics , @FiveLinden , have a quite a way to go before their opinions on violence and war come close to the Gospel message of the Prince of Peace .

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I was pleased on the Feast of Pentecost in 1982 to hear Pope John Paul II say here in England : " Today, the scale and the horror of modern warfare - whether nuclear or not - makes it totally unacceptable as a means of settling differences between nations. War should belong to the tragic past, to history; it should find no place on humanity’s agenda for the future. "

 

[Pug]

Perhaps you might agree that sexuality should be integrated into the whole person, into who they are, both as a bodily person and a spiritual person (though for you the spiritual part might be the emotional or interpersonal or social part). It is likely you would see the value or appeal of fidelity. You probably see sexuality as a source of joy or pleasure (though the context would differ). You may or may not agree that sexuality is more than just a physical thing, but affects human relationships. Perhaps you could see expressions of love in sexuality, perhaps also self-giving. You may or may not see a connection between sexuality and procreation.

Can you see in any of that an overlap?

 

[BornInMarch]

The American Humanist Association has a page describing the overlap between Catholic Morality and Humanist Morality. It’s here. Below is a quote from that link:

Humanism, in a nutshell, “affirms our ability and responsibility to lead ethical lives of personal fulfillment that aspire to the greater good of humanity.” In many ways, Catholicism and humanism are on common ground. The primary commonalities center on the inherent dignity of all people, rights and responsibilities, the common good, peace and social justice as well as valuing humanistic action.

Notably, the American Humanist Association doesn’t consider theism and humanism to be completely incompatible.

 

[FiveLinden]

Perhaps you might agree that sexuality should be integrated into the whole person, into who they are, both as a bodily person and a spiritual person (though for you the spiritual part might be the emotional or interpersonal or social part). It is likely you would see the value or appeal of fidelity. You probably see sexuality as a source of joy or pleasure (though the context would differ). You may or may not agree that sexuality is more than just a physical thing, but affects human relationships. Perhaps you could see expressions of love in sexuality, perhaps also self-giving. You may or may not see a connection between sexuality and procreation.

Can you see in any of that an overlap?

Interesting and thoughtful questions. Thank you. Intellectually I think it would be ideal if sex between adults was very free and very casual unless people wanted it otherwise. But my experience is that fidelity in long-term relationships does bring great benefits. But that only overlaps with the Catholic position to a degree because of the Catholic insistence on fidelity until death. And yes I guess I agree with the Church about sex being a joy and a pleasure!

 

[TK421]

Pretty much any ideology has some overlap with the teachings of the Catholic Church, but sexuality is an area where there tends to be the least overlap when it comes to any secular ideology.

Sunday’s Gospel readings are relevant in that respect; Jesus tells us that even the law of Moses fell short. Marriage is between one man and one woman. This is an eternal law that will could never and will never change. Whatever governments say about it is irrelevant. That means masturbation, fornication, same-sex marriage, polygamy, human-robot sex (this one will become a major issue within 1 or 2 generations), and anything else other than sex celebrated between a married man and woman who are open to life will always violate the Divine Law of Love.

 

[Loud-living-dogma]

To the OP - - do you acknowledge that sex often results in the procreation of babies? Do you agree that babies do best when they know their parents, who are married to each other? Can you see Catholic sexual morality as largely a vindication of that point of view?

 

[Pug]

Because Christ went so far as to die for us, we tend to view love as something that often involves sacrifice. So the fidelity until death makes more sense, perhaps, if one is Catholic.

Historically, I don’t think women would have chosen free and casual as their ideal. There is an inequity with the consequences that would need to be considered.

Glad you found a point of agreement with the joy part.

 

[FiveLinden]

To the OP - - do you acknowledge that sex often results in the procreation of babies? Do you agree that babies do best when they know their parents, who are married to each other? Can you see Catholic sexual morality as largely a vindication of that point of view?

Yes, I’m sure that sex evolved in our very distant ancestors from asexual reproduction as a way of having more and healthier offspring better able to adapt to the environment they were in. The evidence on modern human children seems to be that children do best when they have a stable and predictable upbringing in close and loving contact with more than one adult who remain in contact during childhood. They also do better when provided with high quality early childhood and later education. Being raised by biological parents provides a substantial part of this. Human needs in childhood evolved in the context of larger adult groups than two parents. Marriage in the sense of Catholic marriage developed on in the last couple of thousand years from earlier forms a further couple of thousand years old. Human societies have a wide range of marriage forms suggesting that a particular form is not more successful in child raising than any other.