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Izdaari
Guest
Which, as a libertarian, is the view I subscribe to.
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Mystophilus
Guest
There are Christians who find dancing immoral, remember. The range is pretty broad.
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Mystophilus
Guest
Anglican, and yes, 100% agreed.
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IbnFiktur
Guest
I’ve also come across several non-Catholic churches here and there that are extremely tolerant of pre-marital sex and homosexual acts. The local Lutheran church has a gay pride flag flying above the door!
I think these stances are the minority as far as the “official” teachings of most Christian denominations go, but there’s so many denominations and sub-denominations that it can be difficult to tell. I’ve always been curious to hear the theological explanations for these stances though, so I’m hoping a member of one such denomination comes out of the woodwork here.
I think these stances are the minority as far as the “official” teachings of most Christian denominations go, but there’s so many denominations and sub-denominations that it can be difficult to tell. I’ve always been curious to hear the theological explanations for these stances though, so I’m hoping a member of one such denomination comes out of the woodwork here.
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fpt
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In the practice, as catholic, we need to understand the true definition of each one of this wrong acts. What is the universal definition, objective and realistic?
What is the universal acception of the definition of each one of this wrong act???
The great issues:
How to define? What is intellectual approach that is correct??? The universality of notions? Only, the catholic church has this power to give an acception of the definition.
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exnihilo
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Unfortunately my denomination in modern times prefers to not make decisions. It prefers to leave things wide open. So I can’t rally say what my church teaches. Who knows. I find this disturbing. But I can take a guess.
Pornography - I would imagine bad in so far as it is exploitative of women (they tend to focus on women particularly as victims)
Premarital sex - hard to say. I think not sanctioned but there seems to be little concern about cohabitation which is a indicator of this.
Homosexuality - officially homosexual acts would be immoral, but this will probably change in the next few years.
Violent sexual roleplay - I’ve never encountered this topic within my church.
I don’t know that you were trying to be comprehensive but you did not ask about divorce. I believe attitudes about divorce are at the heart of sexual ethics. Once you accept divorce, which my church does, then the traditional Christian understanding of sexuality is out. I think the damage done to marriage by divorce in a way encourages premarital sex, pornography, and even homosexuality.
Pornography - I would imagine bad in so far as it is exploitative of women (they tend to focus on women particularly as victims)
Premarital sex - hard to say. I think not sanctioned but there seems to be little concern about cohabitation which is a indicator of this.
Homosexuality - officially homosexual acts would be immoral, but this will probably change in the next few years.
Violent sexual roleplay - I’ve never encountered this topic within my church.
I don’t know that you were trying to be comprehensive but you did not ask about divorce. I believe attitudes about divorce are at the heart of sexual ethics. Once you accept divorce, which my church does, then the traditional Christian understanding of sexuality is out. I think the damage done to marriage by divorce in a way encourages premarital sex, pornography, and even homosexuality.
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nickybr38
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Yup. Which is why I wanted to know from individuals from a variety of denominations.
You can even find Catholics who think premarital sex is okay… unfortunately for them the Church has set down certain truths that we cannot deny as long as we call ourselves Catholic.
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fpt
Guest
The solution is to give an universal definition of each immoral sexual act, I mean to define correctly the thing.
The general definition by using the realistic and objective philosophy (metaphysics, epistemology, personalist philosophy, phenomenology, psychology, anthropology, the medical sciences, ethics, the sciences of moral), by using the natural theology (the theodicy with the natural moral law of human beings) by using the catholic moral theology (Holy Bible, catholic moral), thus the link between faith and reason, the link between love, passion, sexuality and reason, and by using the juridical philosophy (philosophy of law…etc).
The metaphysics of sex is the solution. The difference between the wrong act per se, I mean by itself, of itself, from itself and in self and the wrong act only, in function of situations. For instance, the big debate about sexual foreplay in the context of marital act.
The wrong act, per se, has to be defined “largo sensu” or “stricto sensu”. For me it is " stricto sensu". The concept of presumption of immorality is the rule or the exception???
For instance: The fact of dancing, per se, wrong or okay? In reality it is neutral. Only the intentions and the situations of dance and the type of dance can do it wrong.
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Mystophilus
Guest
In Anglicanism, whether or not the liberal, pro-gay-marriage position is in a minority depends upon which province you are in. The general trend is that the provinces of the West which are not already pro are heading towards it.
I can happily explain how it works, although I would ask first for you to read all of this carefully, because we tend to get kneejerk reactions about “relativism” and “cherrypicking” which grossly oversimplify how it actually works. The liberal position is just as much the product of earnest prayer and meditation as the conservative position is, and it goes well beyond simply picking what we like, or simply following society.
As for theology, there seem to be two broad camps on the liberal side. One is the “misinterpretation” camp, who believe that the Bible is not against loving homosexual relationships, only against unloving ones, and that has been misinterpreted as a general prohibition. The other is the “modernising” camp, who believe that Paul was against homosexuality generally, but only because he was a product of his time, which also goes for his attitude towards women; we can thus have gay marriage in much the same way that we can have women priests. I fall into the latter camp.
What both depend upon is the application of Reason ahead of Tradition as the interpreter of Scripture.
More conservative Anglicans, meanwhile, view the whole situation in much the same way as traditional Catholics.
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stevxvx
Guest
I believe all 4 are OK to do and nobody should discriminate if they choose so… also in case Christianity is the “true religion” I know Jesus would be accepting of all those people into his heavenly kingdom.
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kbwall
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I’m fairly certain that Protestant churches deem all these actions as immoral. It’s just that protestant churches are less organized and strict. This allows their followers to outright ignore certain things in the Bible.
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epan
Guest
I don’t think that an attraction to specific types is unique to gay people. This business of stereotyping doesn’t seem to have much value to me. My grandfather married a woman younger than my mom. The last billionaire I worked for had a trophy wife who was less than have his age and supermodel gorgeous in physical appearance. There is a straight counterpart to the “bear” phenomenon. My impression of twink is not teenage looks, but just youthful looking. I am no expert. So, don’t hold me to that.
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nickybr38
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Well, you’d be wrong. The United Church does not deem these things immoral.
Or at least, the one I attended didn’t. In fact, the minister herself encouraged all of her children in their ‘common-law’ marriages. 
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Kristin234
Guest
Wow. I would be floored if I ever heard my pastor every saying homosexuality, premarital sex, and pornography was okay. In my church, my pastor has brought up every single one of those and they are all wrong.
So,
Pornography: Immoral. You are committing adultery
Premarital sex: Immoral. Scripture tells us that because of temptations to have a husband/wife. Also, my church refuses to marry a couple if they live together and they also refuse to remarry divorcees (unless they were cheated on) because that is also a form of adultery.
Homosexuality: Immoral. Scripture is very clear on that topic. “For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.”
Violent sexual roleplay: I find it immoral.
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enickman
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One of the biggest question for Catholics, especially young Catholics, is what defines premarital sex. Most think it deals only with traditional intercourse, and the imitations of sex are okay. The Church, to my knowledge, doesn’t point out that imitations are immoral in the Catechism, but they are considered immoral. Try convincing young Catholics that, it’s extremely difficult.
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Usbek_de_Perse
Guest
Pornography? Moral or immoral?
You seriously have to ask this? It is immoral for a number of reasons, not just for sexual reasons.
Premarital sex? Moral or immoral?
**Immoral. But it happens among Protestants and Catholics. I think we would all be happier if it were just premarital sex and not the rampant extramarital sex. **
Homosexuality? Moral or immoral?
To me it is immoral. To my church, the issue is squishy.
Violent sexual roleplay? Moral or immoral?
**Give me a break. Recreating cartoonish ideas of the inquisition is immoral, but also silly. Perhaps it an be defended as historical reinactment **
By the way, I am Episcopalian.
You seriously have to ask this? It is immoral for a number of reasons, not just for sexual reasons.
Premarital sex? Moral or immoral?
**Immoral. But it happens among Protestants and Catholics. I think we would all be happier if it were just premarital sex and not the rampant extramarital sex. **
Homosexuality? Moral or immoral?
To me it is immoral. To my church, the issue is squishy.
Violent sexual roleplay? Moral or immoral?
**Give me a break. Recreating cartoonish ideas of the inquisition is immoral, but also silly. Perhaps it an be defended as historical reinactment **
By the way, I am Episcopalian.
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nickybr38
Guest
Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut. I’ll give you a break since you asked for one.
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ProdglArchitect
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I asked my old priest and deacon about the role-play one. They said that so long as it was consensual and didn’t result in lasting harm, that there was nothing wrong with it. Within the confines of marriage, of course. If that is what the couple enjoys, and so long as it results in a true marital act, then I don’t think the church says anything on it.
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nickybr38
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There are certain sexual acts which we must refrain from. So I guess it depends on your tolerance level. I threw that one in out of curiosity more then anything.
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