Sexual orientation laws trump religious freedom, California Supreme Court says (CNA)

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Sacramento, Aug 23, 2008 / 08:47 pm (CNA).- The California Supreme Court?s decision against two doctors who declined to artificially inseminate a lesbian could have significant implications for religious freedom in the United States.http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/catholicnewsagency/dailynews/~4/373115785

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Interesting. Hopefully this can go to the Federal Supreme Court.

If such a ruling holds, couldn’t doctors of a certain specialy…say OBGYN, be coerced in to performing abortions against their will? Of course, they couldn’t force all physicians to do things against their conscience…like making dermatologists do abortions or embryo implantation, IVF, etc.

The law quoted in the article also has a chilling effect for non-doctors. It seems that say, a private mom-and-pop printing shop could be compelled to print fliers or banners for a homosexual event like a parade or such, couldn’t it?
 
it is obvious this violates the 1st amendment forbidding any prohibition against the free practice of religion
 
There’s a LONG thread on this one in the “News” section.

If the MD’s had won-it would have set a precedent that a doctor’s belief can be used to deny treatment. Do you know your MD’s views on Catholics? 😉
 
There’s a LONG thread on this one in the “News” section.

If the MD’s had won-it would have set a precedent that a doctor’s belief can be used to deny treatment. Do you know your MD’s views on Catholics? 😉
I would be happy to take my chances. If this were a problem, then Catholics would see the solution as having Catholics that supported Catholic positions. And THAT would be a change of pace.
 
I would be happy to take my chances. If this were a problem, then Catholics would see the solution as having Catholics that supported Catholic positions. And THAT would be a change of pace.
I don’t want me or anyone to be at the mercy of an MD’s belief system in regard to medical decisions. Now, in this case, the procedure was elective, but the way the language was written the Court was thinking ahead to procedures that are NOT elective.

You’re in an auto accident, you’ve got your crucifix on, your “I love Pope Benedict” t shirt on, and your wallet contains a card informing medical practictioners that you are Catholic and to call a priest. The MD in the ER is an avowed athiest and says: “my beliefs will not allow me to treat this person, let their God save them”. I don’t care how rarely something like that could happen, I don’t want to see a precedent set for it. Even one life endangered or lost is too many.
 
Religion is protected by the US Constitution, homosexuality is not. Federal law trumps state law
 
There’s a LONG thread on this one in the “News” section.

If the MD’s had won-it would have set a precedent that a doctor’s belief can be used to deny treatment. Do you know your MD’s views on Catholics? 😉
They should be allowed to deny treatment. Why should someone with some particular degree be forced to commit a grave sin? They have rights.
 
They should be allowed to deny treatment. Why should someone with some particular degree be forced to commit a grave sin? They have rights.
What about the Hippocratic Oath they took?
 
What about the Hippocratic Oath they took?
They do not all take it and such an oath does mean one is bound to do what is immoral.

All sorts of “treatments” are available today that are not treatments at all.
 
I don’t want me or anyone to be at the mercy of an MD’s belief system in regard to medical decisions. Now, in this case, the procedure was elective, but the way the language was written the Court was thinking ahead to procedures that are NOT elective.

You’re in an auto accident, you’ve got your crucifix on, your “I love Pope Benedict” t shirt on, and your wallet contains a card informing medical practictioners that you are Catholic and to call a priest. The MD in the ER is an avowed athiest and says: “my beliefs will not allow me to treat this person, let their God save them”. I don’t care how rarely something like that could happen, I don’t want to see a precedent set for it. Even one life endangered or lost is too many.
The doctor in this case was not refusing to treat them with basic medical care because they were homosexual, the doctor was refusing to help them have a child. A completely different issue, a light years difference, not even close to a realistic comparison with basic medical care.

If you want to think ahead to procedures that were not elective then you would take up that issue in a different case.

If you are an ER doctor then obviously you are there to treat anyone who comes in, and you also work for the hospital which expects you to perform emergency medical services to people regardless of their background.

This case is completely different, it forces someone to help a homosexual couple with elective care to have a child which goes blatantly against their religious beliefs. It also could be used to force plastic surgeons to perform sex change operations, and maybe eventually force OBGYNs to perform abortions.

There is no excuse as a Catholic to go directly against Church teachings and support this court’s decision.
 
This case is completely different, it forces someone to help a homosexual couple with elective care to have a child which goes blatantly against their religious beliefs. It also could be used to force plastic surgeons to perform sex change operations, and maybe eventually force OBGYNs to perform abortions.
Right. Just because the profession classifies some procedure as “medical” does not nake it justified.
 
Also, there is nothing in Christianity that could be used to justify denying basic care to anybody since Christ himself came to save the sinners, he healed them, cleansed them, forgave their sins etc. However, the teachings of Christianity would completely support the doctor’s refusal to help others commit a grave sin and in effect participate in a grave sin themselves by doing so.
 
Also, there is nothing in Christianity that could be used to justify denying basic care to anybody since Christ himself came to save the sinners, he healed them, cleansed them, forgave their sins etc. However, the teachings of Christianity would completely support the doctor’s refusal to help others commit a grave sin and in effect participate in a grave sin themselves by doing so.
That is the confusion, intentional or not.

No one is arguing authentic medical care should ever be denied to any person. The problem is medical care is now defined so broadly that any procedure, no matter how immoral, is called medical care.
 
That is what I was saying, sorry for not being clear. I am saying that forcing the doctor to perform the procedure is forcing them the participate in grave sin. However, there is nothing in our faith that would prevent us from providing basic medical care like ER services for anyone. I was just showing the drastic difference between the two.
 
The doctor in this case was not refusing to treat them with basic medical care because they were homosexual, the doctor was refusing to help them have a child…
Exactomundo.

We’re not talking about alleviating pathology, relieving pain or suffering or correcting a congenital or developmental defect here.

But…the interesting thing is what’s next…surgeons getting busted for not providing transsexual modification surgeries? The agument could be made that transgendered or transexual or whatever the correct term is people have a genetic defect, i.e. were “born the wrong gender” and needed correction in order to return them to “health”.

Scary, isn’t it?
 
I don’t want me or anyone to be at the mercy of an MD’s belief system in regard to medical decisions. Now, in this case, the procedure was elective, but the way the language was written the Court was thinking ahead to procedures that are NOT elective.
If that’s what they were doing, I think it’s a great mistake for them to lump together elective and non-elective procedures into the same category. Beside the fact that a doctor performs them, they are not at all the same. Saving someone’s life is a morally good act regardless of who the person is or what their beliefs are. In the situation in the article, the very act the doctors are being asked to do is immoral.

Similarly, the Wisconsin University Law professor’s analgoy has no bearing:

"Imagine somebody who runs a store for maternity clothing who refuses to serve single women or gay women, because the owner believes that it is immoral for such a woman to have had sex, let alone to have a child.”

If the doctor’s refused to care for a single woman who was already pregnant, then this analogy might work. But they are refusing to help her get pregnant in the first place. This is an important difference.

I guess what it comes down to is that doctors should not refuse any service based on their evaluation of a particular patient’s sinful lifestyle. However, a doctor should not be required to perform a service which they believe in and of itself is immoral. The example from this article falls into the latter category, not the former.
 
If that’s what they were doing, I think it’s a great mistake for them to lump together elective and non-elective procedures into the same category. Beside the fact that a doctor performs them, they are not at all the same. Saving someone’s life is a morally good act regardless of who the person is or what their beliefs are. In the situation in the article, the very act the doctors are being asked to do is immoral.

Similarly, the Wisconsin University Law professor’s analgoy has no bearing:

"Imagine somebody who runs a store for maternity clothing who refuses to serve single women or gay women, because the owner believes that it is immoral for such a woman to have had sex, let alone to have a child.”

If the doctor’s refused to care for a single woman who was already pregnant, then this analogy might work. But they are refusing to help her get pregnant in the first place. This is an important difference.

I guess what it comes down to is that doctors should not refuse any service based on their evaluation of a particular patient’s sinful lifestyle. However, a doctor should not be required to perform a service which they believe in and of itself is immoral. The example from this article falls into the latter category, not the former.
And that is the MD’s right-because they can choose what they wish to specialize in. However, once they’ve made that choice, I think they need to check their personal feelings at the door.
If they don’t want to do X procedure on X member of X group-then it’s their choice not to specialize or practice a type of medicine that includes that procedure.
 
This is a very unique and bizarre situation in which it seems no matter what happens we open our way to a slippery slope of unwanted consequences. On the one hand, if we ignore religious freedom, we have Catholics (and other religious beliefs) forced to act against God’s law, which is clearly unacceptable. On the other hand, if it is decided to allow religious beliefs to, on some level, dictate what can and cannot be done physicians then we could very possibly have non-religious, non-Catholic doctors pulling the freedom of religion card when the intent IS discrimination.

Now, I do not know how likely any of this is. What I do know is this needs national attention. Lines need to be drawn…carfefully. This has a great potential to go horribly wrong.
 
And that is the MD’s right-because they can choose what they wish to specialize in. However, once they’ve made that choice, I think they need to check their personal feelings at the door.
If they don’t want to do X procedure on X member of X group-then it’s their choice not to specialize or practice a type of medicine that includes that procedure.
Medicine changes every day. No one knows what types of things will become available. Why must we force people to act immorally?
 
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