Sexual Pleasure sinful?

[dominikus28]

From: cybercollege.com/history.htm

Women who enjoyed sex were condemned as being “evil.”

Early religious law set down very restrictive laws governing the “when and how often” of sex between married partners, even to the point of limiting sex to the so-called missionary position.

At one point the Catholic Church had “sex police.”

For example, a married couple could be burned at the stake if they were caught having sex with the women on top. Sex was only for conceiving children, and for the male (and especially the female) to enjoy sex was not only deemed sinful, but could send you to hell.

Is any of this true, that pleasure during sex was considered sinful?

 

[Pacbox]

Yes (with extreme emphasis on context) but definitely no.

There were INDIVIDUALS that advocated strict sexual practices, that any pleasure was circumspect (questionable as to the degree of sinfulness or was it venial or mortal) and that sex be only used for procreation but it was and has never been the Church’s position. (Granted, I also came across sexual pleasure as sin in my own catechesis on the Church’s teaching on sex. I was taught/picked up that sex was sin but only venial in marriage while it was mortal outside of marriage. Some people should not be teachers. Granted, I do understand the CORRECT teaching but iI had some messed up ideas for a while.)

The bigger problem with that link is that there are no sources quoted so it’s a lot of conjecture and with few, if any, facts. St. Augustine did leave a very sinful lifestyle that he had lived for decades which possibly influenced his writings on sex but while he is a saint we don’t take his writings as divine revelation.

I did come across this false view of sex in my Medievel History class back in college but it was pointed out that this was not Church teaching (I was not at a Catholic college nor was the professor Catholic) and that it was a result of individuals who had issues with sex rather than the Church having issues with sex. I remember covering some “guidelines” for sex but the included the fact that the couple “felt” like having sex should primarily have it to have children but it wasn’t the end of the world if the act didn’t result in children. It was more like procreation was above unification of the spouses but both were acceptable.

As for women enjoying sex considered evil, that strikes me more of a Victorian era idea (which saw sex a dirty, necessary evil and not to be talked about or enjoyed by men or women but it was okay of men enjoyed it a little) though that idea has probably existed or been promoted on and off throughout history.

 

[1ke]

Is any of this true, that pleasure during sex was considered sinful?

no

 

[fermat]

:bigyikes: Honestly, where do people come up with this stuff? Burned at the stake???

Here is the * official* teaching of the church:

Paragraph 2362 from the Catechism of the Catholic Church:
The acts in marriage by which the intimate and chaste union of the spouses takes place are noble and honorable; the truly human performance of these acts fosters the self-giving they signify and enriches the spouses in joy and gratitude." Sexuality is a source of joy and pleasure:

The Creator himself . . . established that in the [generative] function, spouses should experience pleasure and enjoyment of body and spirit. Therefore, the spouses do nothing evil in seeking this pleasure and enjoyment. They accept what the Creator has intended for them. At the same time, spouses should know how to keep themselves within the limits of just moderation.

All those little nerve endings do more than tell us when we get hurt.

 

[PilgrimToChrist]

The last of our classes on the Seven Virtues was on Palm Sunday, it was on Temperance. Father said that in no way is pleasure sinful, as the Puritans and Jansenists claimed… ever wonder why you don’t see many of them anymore? He said they probably saw a Catholic drinking a beer and thought to themselves, “My religion is stupid, I’m going to become a Catholic!”

Sexual pleasure (in the proper context and degree, of course) is perfectly good. If God didn’t create us to have sexual pleasure, we probably wouldn’t make as many babies…

People just say random stupid things about the Catholic Church, they’re like academic urban legends, it all started with the so-called “Enlightenment” bashing on the so-called “Dark Ages”…

 

[brandrew]

Note the church teaches:

2351 Lust is disordered desire for or inordinate enjoyment of sexual pleasure. Sexual pleasure is morally disordered when sought for itself, isolated from its procreative and unitive purposes.

As in any sin - it is the ‘disorder’ which makes it an abuse of God’s nature.

In 2352:

For here sexual pleasure is sought outside of “the sexual relationship which is demanded by the moral order and in which the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love is achieved.”

-CCC

 

[Gallowglasser]

From: cybercollege.com/history.htm

Is any of this true, that pleasure during sex was considered sinful?

I’ve just been doing an Early Modern European history unit at Uni this semester, and we actually covered this. Women on top was frowned upon i think, but you probably wouldn’t get burnt at the stake for it in general. Possibly fined by a church court, though if that many people in public knew about your sexual deviancy, you were in more danger of being harrassed by the community, perhaps even driven out of town. (i’m extrapolating for that last bit, there were cases of married couples being tormented by groups of individuals for the husband being much older than the wife or vice versa, so i can imagine the community wouldn’t be too happy with the wife perveting the perceived natural order of things in the bedroom).
Might there have been several cases in history that resulted in women being burnt at the stake for being on top? Possibly, but if so, the practice was not widespread throughout Christendom and not in accordance with the teachings of Rome. I mean, my lecturers at Uni love to talk about how the Catholic church was so brutal and corrupt in ye olden days, and this didn’t get a mention, so i’m assuming it didn’t happen, in the early modern period (1450 - 1700) at least.

Also, in Early Modern Europe (i’m not sure in medieval times), it was widely believed that it was necessary for a woman to reach orgasm in order to have conceive a child, as it was thought in biology that orgasm allowed women to release their own “seed”. (This is, incidentally, i think why rape victims who fell pregnant weren’t treated so nicely, people thought they had enjoyed it). So, since the Church supported sexual intercourse for the means of pro-creation, they supported the female orgasm.

As for when to have sex, i think i heard somewhere on CAF that days of “fasting and abstinence” means having no sex as well as meat. So there are still restrictions in place.

Hope that helps, not sure how accurate it is.

 

[JRRTFAN]

From: cybercollege.com/history.htm

Is any of this true, that pleasure during sex was considered sinful?

The Puritans and Victorians may have had such things but I never heard the Catholic Church accused of same. I’ve heard about nearly every sling and arrow extant against Holy Mother Church but never this one.

 

[PilgrimToChrist]

The Puritans and Victorians may have had such things but I never heard the Catholic Church accused of same. I’ve heard about nearly every sling and arrow extant against Holy Mother Church but never this one.

They usually pin it to St. Augustine, but that’s a misinterpretation.