Sexual question

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Le me ask you this, then; is an act procreative and “open to life” when a couple purposely abstains from the fertile period with the express intention of avoiding pregnancy, and engages in the act during the infertile period when the chance of pregnancy is at its lowest and the sex act can be used as a means to an end as something pleasurable without the consequence of pregnancy?
NFP is approved by the Church as the only way to try to space children. However, the sexual act must still end with the husband climaxing inside his wife and it is then in God’s hands if he decides the couple during that period will conceive or not.
 
NFP is approved by the Church as the only way to try to space children. However, the sexual act must still end with the husband climaxing inside his wife and it is then in God’s hands if he decides the couple during that period will conceive or not.
Then intent has nothing to do with it?
 
In other words I was correct when I said it is NOT a medical fact that pre-ejaculate fluids can cause pregnancy.
Also, although there is a debate on whether there is sperm at all those that say there is admit such sperm is NOT mobile and so cannot cause pregnancy.

I hope the poster who claims it is a medical fact and that most teen pregnancies are caused by pre-ejaculate fluids goes back to his teacher and sets them straight.

By the way this really has nothing to do with this thread.

All sex acts within marriage MUST be procreative and open to fertiity. The only way that can happen is when the husband climaxes inside his wife.
If he deliberately withdraws prior to orgasm then that is a sin of grave matter.
If he deliberately refuses to enter his wife and climaxes outside of her then that is a sin of grave matter.
Let us be clear. Any foreplay and sexual activity between husband and wife is only permitted if it is completed by the husband climaxing inside his wife.
Im not setting that teacher straight, 1st he gets all info from the lead health teacher 2nd he’s SHAQ size, I cant look most people in the eye out of fear let alone someone his height
 
Then intent has nothing to do with it?
Sexual intercourse during NFP often means the couple intend there is no pregnancy at that time. However, God’s will trumps our will no matter what we want or intend. That is why the marital act must always be procreative and open to fertility. It does not mean they will or will not have children. That is up to God.
 
Sexual intercourse during NFP often means the couple intend there is no pregnancy at that time. However, God’s will trumps our will no matter what we want or intend. That is why the marital act must always be procreative and open to fertility. It does not mean they will or will not have children. That is up to God.
Correct, as is your explanation of Church teaching. The husband must climax inside his wife. I find the question of why the Church doesn’t explicitly state this in a document somewhere to be silly. Church documents are not the Kama Sutra, and they don’t need to go into such explicit detail. :o

As far as NFP goes, it is not the same thing as withdrawing before climax. The difference is one of attitude. In a situation where withdrawal takes place, one of the parties is intending to frustrate the sexual act itself. In a sense saying, “I want sex, but without the possibility of life”. When NFP is followed properly, the attitude is entirely different. The couple is saying to God, “we would prefer not to have a child at this time, but still leave the door open to Your will”. It may not be likely that a couple will conceive during infertile periods, but it’s far from impossible.

Also, nothing is truly impossible for God. Consider Abraham and Sarah or Zechariah and Elizabeth. If God desires a child, He can bring one to life where medical science would say it’s impossible. So no, NFP when properly understood is not the same.
 
From EWTN website:
OUTLINE OF AUTHENTIC ROMAN CATHOLIC TEACHING ON THE LIFE ISSUES
A. Artificial Contraception.
  1. The marital act must always be left open to the transmission of life.
  1. The use of artificial contraception is degrading to both human nature and to the institution of marriage.
  1. Persons who employ artificial means deny the will of God and actually set their wills in His place.
  1. Birth regulation through the use of natural family planning (NFP) is licit and, unlike the artificial methods, contributes to marital unity.
From the Catechism:
2370 Periodic continence, that is, the methods of birth regulation based on self-observation and the use of infertile periods, is in conformity with the objective criteria of morality. These methods respect the bodies of the spouses, encourage tenderness between them, and favor the education of an authentic freedom. In contrast, “every action which, whether in anticipation of the conjugal act, or in its accomplishment, or in the development of its natural consequences, proposes, whether as an end or as a means, to render procreation impossible” is intrinsically evil:
Thus the innate language that expresses the total reciprocal self-giving of husband and wife is overlaid, through contraception, by an objectively contradictory language, namely, that of not giving oneself totally to the other. This leads not only to a positive refusal to be open to life but also to a falsification of the inner truth of conjugal love, which is called upon to give itself in personal totality. . . . The difference, both anthropological and moral, between contraception and recourse to the rhythm of the cycle . . . involves in the final analysis two irreconcilable concepts of the human person and of human sexuality.
Can’t get much clearer than 2370 in explaining the differences between NFP, properly understood, and contraception (including withdrawal).
 
In other words I was correct when I said it is NOT a medical fact that pre-ejaculate fluids can cause pregnancy.
Also, although there is a debate on whether there is sperm at all those that say there is admit such sperm is NOT mobile and so cannot cause pregnancy.

I hope the poster who claims it is a medical fact and that most teen pregnancies are caused by pre-ejaculate fluids goes back to his teacher and sets them straight.

By the way this really has nothing to do with this thread.

All sex acts within marriage MUST be procreative and open to fertiity. The only way that can happen is when the husband climaxes inside his wife.
If he deliberately withdraws prior to orgasm then that is a sin of grave matter.
If he deliberately refuses to enter his wife and climaxes outside of her then that is a sin of grave matter.
Let us be clear. Any foreplay and sexual activity between husband and wife is only permitted if it is completed by the husband climaxing inside his wife.
It would seem to be such an easy thing to settle. Medical scientist, a microscope and a sample.🤷 I must be missing something here.
 
In other words I was correct when I said it is NOT a medical fact that pre-ejaculate fluids can cause pregnancy.
Also, although there is a debate on whether there is sperm at all those that say there is admit such sperm is NOT mobile and so cannot cause pregnancy.

I hope the poster who claims it is a medical fact and that most teen pregnancies are caused by pre-ejaculate fluids goes back to his teacher and sets them straight.

By the way this really has nothing to do with this thread.

All sex acts within marriage MUST be procreative and open to fertiity. The only way that can happen is when the husband climaxes inside his wife.
If he deliberately withdraws prior to orgasm then that is a sin of grave matter.
If he deliberately refuses to enter his wife and climaxes outside of her then that is a sin of grave matter.
Let us be clear. Any foreplay and sexual activity between husband and wife is only permitted if it is completed by the husband climaxing inside his wife.
Would “after play” be morally wrong ie male already climaxed continues to stimulate wife manually as she had not climaxed yet, would that be wrong? Especially for those men who suffer from premature ejaculation.
 
Would “after play” be morally wrong ie male already climaxed continues to stimulate wife manually as she had not climaxed yet, would that be wrong? Especially for those men who suffer from premature ejaculation.
Wouldn’t think so. The couple has been open to life at that point, but the husband is attempting to help his wife enjoy the licit sexual pleasure that’s part of intercourse. If the Church allows foreplay that leads to valid intercourse, I don’t see why “after play” would be dis-allowed.
 
Wouldn’t think so. The couple has been open to life at that point, but the husband is attempting to help his wife enjoy the licit sexual pleasure that’s part of intercourse. If the Church allows foreplay that leads to valid intercourse, I don’t see why “after play” would be dis-allowed.
Glad you agree, I did feel awful typing that question
 
It would seem to be such an easy thing to settle. Medical scientist, a microscope and a sample.🤷 I must be missing something here.
I think what’s missing is why it’s wrong to attempt withdrawal. Whether a pregnancy could theoretically happen or not is not what makes it sinful, but rather the motive behind withdrawal, which is to try to artificially prevent pregnancy. If a man believed that pregnancy was possible even if he withdrew…then why wouldn’t he simply climax inside? Obviously there is some uncertainty and so the person is simply trying to get the pleasure of sex and avoid the potential consequences.
 
Glad you agree, I did feel awful typing that question
I’d be quite interested to hear if someone disagrees. I’ve never read or heard anything explicit on that question, and I used to wonder the same thing.
 
I’d be quite interested to hear if someone disagrees. I’ve never read or heard anything explicit on that question, and I used to wonder the same thing.
I’ll see if I could get a Preist or Apologetics answer its something men and women should know given most men cannot last long enough for their wife to finish
 
I think what’s missing is why it’s wrong to attempt withdrawal. Whether a pregnancy could theoretically happen or not is not what makes it sinful, but rather the motive behind withdrawal, which is to try to artificially prevent pregnancy. If a man believed that pregnancy was possible even if he withdrew…then why wouldn’t he simply climax inside? Obviously there is some uncertainty and so the person is simply trying to get the pleasure of sex and avoid the potential consequences.
Read my original post before you make comments, I never “withdrew” I NEVER CLIMAXED!
 
Read my original post before you make comments, I never “withdrew” I NEVER CLIMAXED!
No, you did not, so you did not sin. I understand how you feel. I was stupid enough to ask a question that did make me look like the biggest sinner north of the south-pole. I think you did get your answer much earlier so let it be with that. I did write that if someone did sin it was your wife, and I am sorry, I really am. If I remember right, you and your wife did confess so both of you are good. I am “the new kid” (at age 53) on this forum but I have learn a very important lesson, when you think it was a sin, confess, if it feel bad, it was a sin and if you did not get a penance it was not. God bless you my friend, God bless you.
 
No, you did not, so you did not sin. I understand how you feel. I was stupid enough to ask a question that did make me look like the biggest sinner north of the south-pole. I think you did get your answer much earlier so let it be with that. I did write that if someone did sin it was your wife, and I am sorry, I really am. If I remember right, you and your wife did confess so both of you are good. I am “the new kid” (at age 53) on this forum but I have learn a very important lesson, when you think it was a sin, confess, if it feel bad, it was a sin and if you did not get a penance it was not. God bless you my friend, God bless you.
God bless you too!
 
If you deliberately did not climax inside your wife then that is a sin of grave matter whether you withdrew or not.
That is just an opinion, you have no concrete proof to back up your claim. You’re like a little kid that doesn’t want to admit he’s wrong.
 
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