Sexual question...

[Eschato]

It’s going to sound kind of odd, but here it goes. At what point is sex defined as sex? Same thing with masturbation. If sex is sex at the climax is masturbation not considered masturbation until climax? I’ve looked all around here for an answer, but can’t find one. I am more interested in the masturbation side of the question, because it wouldn’t include penetration, etc.

Thank you in advance. I hope I don’t offend anyone.

 

[PennitentMan]

It’s going to sound kind of odd, but here it goes. At what point is sex defined as sex? Same thing with masturbation. If sex is sex at the climax is masturbation not considered masturbation until climax? I’ve looked all around here for an answer, but can’t find one. I am more interested in the masturbation side of the question, because it wouldn’t include penetration, etc.

Thank you in advance. I hope I don’t offend anyone.

Hi there.

CCC # 2352 “By masturbation is to be understood the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure.”

Basically, any stimulation that gives sexual pleasure. I would imagine that sex would be viewed in the same light, basically when sexual pleasure is derived.

Best to err on the side of caution anyway.

In Christ,
PM

 

[Eschato]

Of course, I’m not trying to “push it to the limit” I was wondering that if someone were mid coitus or mid… whatever, and realized that it was wrong and stopped before the end.

 

[DanteAlighieri]

“Realized it was wrong?”

Unless you’re talking about someone whose invincible ignorance was suddenly overcome by the Holy Spirit’s intervention while he was mid…whatever, I don’t think one can “realize it’s wrong” suddenly in the middle of it. One generally knows.

But to answer the original question, the intent to fornicate or masturbate, even if one stops, is still sinful. Think of it this way: if I plot to commit a crime and the police arrest me beforehand, I’m still guilty (in the eyes of the law) of conspiracy, and (from a moral standpoint) I’m still guilty of the desire to sin.

Reaching climax has nothing to do with whether one has sinned, in my understanding.

Peace,
Dante

 

[Eschato]

OK, you had me laughing a bit there, and having looked at it that way I agree. Now, would “conspiracy” to commit said acts be mortal or venial sin? The only biblical passage that I can think of is “if one has lusted in his heart, he has already committed adultery.” But as I understand it, that is still a venial sin. It’s just that a whole lot of the Church’s teaching on sexuality seems to do with where the seed ends. But it doesn’t seem so cut and dry for a case where it wouldn’t end up anywhere.

Also, you don’t necessarily have to go forth with the intent to commit a sexual sin to commit one. Many people get “caught in the moment” but failing to avoid the near occasion of sin is not in and of itself a sin as I understand it.

 

[pyropam]

“Realized it was wrong?”

Unless you’re talking about someone whose invincible ignorance was suddenly overcome by the Holy Spirit’s intervention while he was mid…whatever, I don’t think one can “realize it’s wrong” suddenly in the middle of it. One generally knows.

But to answer the original question, the intent to fornicate or masturbate, even if one stops, is still sinful. Think of it this way: if I plot to commit a crime and the police arrest me beforehand, I’m still guilty (in the eyes of the law) of conspiracy, and (from a moral standpoint) I’m still guilty of the desire to sin.

Reaching climax has nothing to do with whether one has sinned, in my understanding.

Peace,
Dante

I’m not sure you are correct here Dante… If one starts to commit a crime and then realizes they are in the wrong… Stops… and then doesn’t commit… They haven’t completed the crime… therefore cannot be held guilty. He wasn’t stopped by somebody else… he stopped himself! Big difference.

You did good if you realized what you were doing and then stopped! Now… you don’t need to do it again…

When you go to confession… I would say that I almost did this act but then stopped and did not complete it…

God Bless

Pam

 

[patientone]

Stopping to sin is more pleasing to God than following through, so realizing a sin is occuring during some kind of sexual gratification would be better than totally disregarding the sixth commandment- it’s never too late to ask for forgiveness- doesn’t mean a sin didn’t occur and the more disregard the more morally offensive the act. Of course confession is required to restore grace in sins of this nature.

 

[Eschato]

Stopping to sin is more pleasing to God than following through, so realizing a sin is occuring during some kind of sexual gratification would be better than totally disregarding the sixth commandment- it’s never too late to ask for forgiveness- doesn’t mean a sin didn’t occur and the more disregard the more morally offensive the act. Of course confession is required to restore grace in sins of this nature.

Thank you very much Patience. I believe that was what I needed to hear.

 

[DanteAlighieri]

I’m not sure you are correct here Dante… If one starts to commit a crime and then realizes they are in the wrong… Stops… and then doesn’t commit… They haven’t completed the crime… therefore cannot be held guilty. He wasn’t stopped by somebody else… he stopped himself! Big difference.

You did good if you realized what you were doing and then stopped! Now… you don’t need to do it again…

When you go to confession… I would say that I almost did this act but then stopped and did not complete it…

God Bless

Pam

Good point. I’m not saying, though, that one is guilty of the same sin; merely that one has sinned by desiring to commit the other sin.

Perhaps my analogy wasn’t completely congruent; one doesn’t frequently find oneself in the heat of passion and, bang, robbing a bank before he knew it, the way one can with sexual sins. Nonetheless, if one considers the sinfulness beforehand and consciously and freely decides to commit the sin, one has still sinned in that act of the will – even if one stops.

But I think you and I agree on that.

Peace,
Dante