Sexual Sin in My Marriage

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This book is no “hit piece”. The fact that she (Randy Engel) is a catholic of the traditional variety and a very experienced investigative reporter should clear up any misconceptions that she is suggesting that sodomy is an official rite of the Catholic Church.

*“Author Randy Engel in The Rite of Sodomy has given readers a thoughtful, detailed, and very comprehensive overview of the history and ramifications of homosexuality and pederasty, and this provides a broad base for the detailed, exact, and well researched facts concerning the present ever expanding apparent social and political ‘power” of the “Homosexual Collective” within and without the Roman Catholic Church,” writes Cillis."

“The entire volume is a definite, carefully chronicled documentation of facts - naming names- and reinforced by the thousands of endnotes (footnotes) and covers entire historical periods,” states Cillis. “The author has covered her subject from ancient times, throughout all the periods of human history, up to the present.” *

Anne McGinn Cillis, is a Franciscan tertiary and author of Arrivederci, Padre Pio – A Spiritual Daughter Remembers, opens her lengthy review with a quote on the sublimity of the Catholic priesthood made by Saint Padre Pio in 1962, so as to remind readers that Engel’s work is a defense of the Catholic priesthood and religious life as ordained by God Himself.
 
lovemyboys said:
While I could believe that throughout History, a number of priests and monks with homosexual tendencies have fallen into sexual sin, I can assure you there is no “Rite.” That is the most ludicrous thing I’ve ever read. Protestant ministers with homosexual tendencies have fallen into this sin also (I watched one explain his sin in detail on Oprah last year)-- I would never try to claim that sodomy is part of their church rites. While I would not call a book that exposed priests’ sexual misconduct throughout the ages evil, I can say (without question) that trying to prove that sodomy is a condoned part of our religion is NUTS and straight from Satan. Our church doesn’t even allow for masturbation-- how could it have sodomy as part of its rites?? That’s truly the craziest thing I have ever read! I challenge you to start posting actual facts from that book… I am open to truth where ever I find it, so if you have some sort of truth, put it on here for us to see. I would never actually buy a book like that myself.

And about Christopher West, I will have to get his book myself before I believe that he condones sodomy (as part of “foreplay” or not). If anyone on here owns West’s books, please let me know if he mentions this type of behavior.
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This book is no “hit piece”. The fact that she (Randy Engel) is a catholic of the traditional variety and a very experienced investigative reporter should clear up any misconceptions that she is suggesting that sodomy is an official rite of the Catholic Church.

*“Author Randy Engel in The Rite of Sodomy has given readers a thoughtful, detailed, and very comprehensive overview of the history and ramifications of homosexuality and pederasty, and this provides a broad base for the detailed, exact, and well researched facts concerning the present ever expanding apparent social and political ‘power” of the “Homosexual Collective” within and without the Roman Catholic Church,” writes Cillis."

“The entire volume is a definite, carefully chronicled documentation of facts - naming names- and reinforced by the thousands of endnotes (footnotes) and covers entire historical periods,” states Cillis. “The author has covered her subject from ancient times, throughout all the periods of human history, up to the present.” ~ Anne McGinn Cillis*

Anne McGinn Cillis, is a Franciscan tertiary and author of Arrivederci, Padre Pio – A Spiritual Daughter Remembers, opens her lengthy review with a quote on the sublimity of the Catholic priesthood made by Saint Padre Pio in 1962, so as to remind readers that Engel’s work is a defense of the Catholic priesthood and religious life as ordained by God Himself.
 
lovemyboys said:
If this is true, I’ve just lost all respect for Christopher West. Please someone, tell me Christopher West doesn’t condone any part of sodomy. YUCK. I’m about to throw up. I cannot believe a man could ask this horrible, unhealthy, unnatural act of his wife. To the OP, I am all for wives submitting to their husbands (if their husbands are moral people), but this request is just evil. Look up the health problems that gay men have because of sodomy, and you will see why this is not a natural act. I also shudder to think of the health problems that would result in using it as “foreplay.” Yikes, you’d get all kinds of infections. Nausea has set in-- must leave this thread now…
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He doesn’t…he actually explains why it is wrong. His book is very good.
 
TLM08 said:
This book is no “hit piece”. The fact that she (Randy Engel) is a catholic of the traditional variety and a very experienced investigative reporter should clear up any misconceptions that she is suggesting that sodomy is an official rite of the Catholic Church.

*“Author Randy Engel in The Rite of Sodomy has given readers a thoughtful, detailed, and very comprehensive overview of the history and ramifications of homosexuality and pederasty, and this provides a broad base for the detailed, exact, and well researched facts concerning the present ever expanding apparent social and political ‘power” of the “Homosexual Collective” within and without the Roman Catholic Church,” writes Cillis."

“The entire volume is a definite, carefully chronicled documentation of facts - naming names- and reinforced by the thousands of endnotes (footnotes) and covers entire historical periods,” states Cillis. “The author has covered her subject from ancient times, throughout all the periods of human history, up to the present.” ~ Anne McGinn Cillis*

Anne McGinn Cillis, is a Franciscan tertiary and author of Arrivederci, Padre Pio – A Spiritual Daughter Remembers, opens her lengthy review with a quote on the sublimity of the Catholic priesthood made by Saint Padre Pio in 1962, so as to remind readers that Engel’s work is a defense of the Catholic priesthood and religious life as ordained by God Himself.
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I looked this book up on Amazon, and the fact that it was “self-published” says it all. No publisher would back this book.

This review probably tells the real story of this 68 dollar book I will not be ordering…

“This is a self published book of paranoia literature. Infiltration of the Church by a homosexual cabal? Check. The Masons secretly behind it all? Check. Rabid anti Vatican II rantings? Check. Wild allegations against a whole lot of people? Check. I’m tempted to give this book 5 stars based on it’s being “so bad it’s good” and on it’s being a pretty good example of paranoid rantings. I’m going for the one star, though because well… it’s actually pretty terrible and isn’t so much about homosexuality or the church as much as it’s about madness (on the part of the author).”
 
I was despising C. West, too because of this very subject, but there was never a constant to this argument as it was more hearsay than fact that I was entangled in…, I have this link, if you scroll to page 229, it will indicate the outright folly of this in marriage in the footnote, but I’m sorry it is all I can find online for now. I am still going to some courses concerning this topic.

books.google.com/books?id=svA0moWkh30C&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_navlinks_s#v=onepage&q=&f=false
 
dashso40 said:
Go to a Catholic counselor…
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I am a Catholic convert. I didn’t lose my spiritual faith, but I did lose faith in my marriage. My husband insisted we see a Catholic counselor and I strongly encourage you NOT to. Because he is not spiritually connected to the Catholic faith, he will feel that you and the counselor are sided together against him.

For his faith, it’s important that he see a Catholic counselor or priest.

For your marriage, it’s important that you see an “unbiased” counselor, from his viewpoint. Most counselors will know what your faith means to you, but will be sensitive to his perceived needs and will (hopefully) work with the two of you to find ways you can meet these new challenges without compromising your faith.

There are lots of ways to spice things up without pornography (sometimes going to an exhilarating football game can get a couple more in the mood than a fleshy flick!) Perhaps you need to ask yourself what are YOU doing to “spice things up?” If you’re refusing all of his ideas, come up with some of your own.

I just did a search on Amazon for “catholic sex.” One of the first books that caught my eye is called “Holy Sex!: A Catholic Guide to Toe-Curling, Mind-Blowing, Infallible Loving.” Maybe you could start with a book like this one and, if it inspires you, pass it along to your husband (or just try to incorporate some of the suggestions yourself!)

Also, continue to do NFP on your own. I’m assuming you do the basal body temperature method? On the days you are confident you cannot get pregnant, give him a wink and let him know you think it’s safe for a night of condom-free sex. You might also try suggesting you take a shower together one day during your period when you are unlikely to get pregnant. It seems that it is not sinful to have sex while menstruating (click here for discussion) and I don’t think there’s anything sinful about the shower either. This kind of relation might possibly allow you to experience some of the intimacy that you need while still meeting his need for things to be “spicier.”

Refusing sex because he insists on condoms will certainly not help your marriage. I’m a convert and certainly not a spiritual guru, but I do know that sexual rejection in a marriage, regardless of the reason, withers the marital bond until you are nothing more than friends or partners.
 
jwashu said:
Actually if you read Christopher West and others, anal is ok if used as foreplay… NO I’m not saying I agree, just saying that it’s not a “sin.”

The important thing is that you have to be comfortable with it… if you aren’t then he shouldn’t pressure you into it.

As far as spicing things up, if a movie is sexy and loving that is one thing. I believe your husband is a little confused on what usually, at least from my standpoint, gets moms in “the mood.” My suggestion if he really wants to spice things up, so that you guys have TIME and can explore, would be to do the dishes, a few extra chores around the house so you didn’t have to do them then a nice bottle of wine and a romantic movie. When someone has tons of stuff on their mind and plate (which you do with that many children) raw sex, porno or not, isn’t going to be a turn on IMHO.

Again the time together is what is important, you may find different things you like or don’t…

In regards to the condoms the priest is right, it has been discussed on this board too many times to mention. Do a search on the ask an apologist section as well.

Joe
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Joe, it is a sin, GAG! I think there is a clear difference in the reproductive and digestive systems…, as a coworkers medical doctor put this once, ahem, that’s an exit. I still think that people have some mental issues if they think that is allowable in anyway, they are just justifying their behaviors, ie. the gay community. If that is love in marriage, then gay rights should go through

There is no woman I know that likes this, no one! Most of the women I know, are getting married to end their sex life with quotes like , “Men are such pigs,” “I’m NEVER doing that(in reference to oral sex) again,” “I could go without sex for years,” seems like everyone I know is looking for a chump and it’s sad…, because I have no urge for ever looking for a spouse because of it.
 
TLM08 said:
It’s good to “spice things up” in the bedroom but dirty movies and (or) porn have no place in a christian marriage. Also, he should not be pressuring you into doing anything that you are not comfortable with.

I must me honest here. Oral sex is one thing… But to me, there is something evil (and even unhealthy) about anal sex.** It’s odd that the church would ban the use of condoms in disease riddled Africa yet anal sex is permissible as long as the act ends in a manner that is open to new life.** This seems like twisted logic to me.

Keep a cool head and speak with him in an honest and open fashion… sort of like you are doing here on these forums. Let him know what’s in your heart on these issues.
😉
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If someone could provide a link or specific quote that proves this ideal from the pope himself or C West or another Catholic Theologian…, I think this is a huge misunderstanding, but the backing on it is unclear.
 
manualman said:
Not quite. More like “there’s no official catholic teaching that declares it sinful.” That’s different from saying it’s either OK or it positively IS a sin. There just isn’t authoritative teaching yet. Many theologians argue that in the absence of explicit guidance, there is liberty. But that isn’t necessarily so. For centuries we lacked specific guidance on slavery, but hindsight sure makes me wonder what took so long. Same thing here - yuck!

Perhaps the OP should consider trying to discuss with the husband the disconnection she is feeling. Perhaps it would help her if he consented to use NFP and abstain during fertile times if she refrained from objecting to whatever additional measures he takes (presumably condoms) during the unfertile times. She would not be actively participating in his sin, but would also possibly feel less used since he was agreeing to make the sacrifice of “instant availability” for the sake of the marriage. An idea anyways.

Blunt / Crude warning!
And something does seem amiss here. You don’t just suddenly start to desire anal without outside (name removed by moderator)ut (porn perhaps?). Silly question, you’ve ruled out misunderstanding right? He’s not just interested in, ahem, alternative natural positions??
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The disconnect is the condoms, period. However the OP stated that her husband will not rationalize using NFP as it did not work 4 times. I was taught this past summer that NFP only works for women with regular periods. However I must say that periods seem to become very irregular after childbirth for most women and there is no telling whether low fertility will actually hold off pregnancy during breastfeeding, I was taught it was supposed to.
 
lovemyboys said:
I looked this book up on Amazon, and the fact that it was “self-published” says it all. No publisher would back this book.

This review probably tells the real story of this 68 dollar book I will not be ordering…

“This is a self published book of paranoia literature. Infiltration of the Church by a homosexual cabal? Check. The Masons secretly behind it all? Check. Rabid anti Vatican II rantings? Check. Wild allegations against a whole lot of people? Check. I’m tempted to give this book 5 stars based on it’s being “so bad it’s good” and on it’s being a pretty good example of paranoid rantings. I’m going for the one star, though because well… it’s actually pretty terrible and isn’t so much about homosexuality or the church as much as it’s about madness (on the part of the author).”
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In light of the Ryan Report that was released this past May regarding this very topic I would say that it is time for christians everywhere to pull their collective heads out of the sand.

youtube.com/watch?v=Xvtdu3d1v8M&feature=related

guardian.co.uk/world/2009/may/20/irish-catholic-schools-child-abuse-claims

This problem is not a collection of isolated incidents. It has unfortunately become deeply woven into the very fabric of the institution. Engel’s book was not written as an attack on the church. It was written in an attempt to expose the evil from within so it can be purged.
 
The priest sexual abuse scandal is embarrassing. Even though I am Catholic, I don’t think that the celibate state is normal for men. Because I am a married woman, I know this for certain. I’m sure most priests are great people who deal with celibacy in a moral way, but some obviously become perverts because of the celibate state. Some of us hope that the Church will change its teaching on mandatory celibacy for new priests, but I still think it’s ludicrous to say that sexual abuse is an institutional part of the Church.
 
lovemyboys said:
The priest sexual abuse scandal is embarrassing. Even though I am Catholic, I don’t think that the celibate state is normal for men. Because I am a married woman, I know this for certain. I’m sure most priests are great people who deal with celibacy in a moral way, but some obviously become perverts because of the celibate state. Some of us hope that the Church will change its teaching on mandatory celibacy for new priests, but I still think it’s ludicrous to say that sexual abuse is an institutional part of the Church.
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As a flesh and blood man I can most certainly tell you celibacy is not natural. However, I do believe that there is a small percentage of men who are able to live in that way and really has nothing to do with their sexual orientation. The difference is that in secular culture gay men tend to be extremely promiscuous. When these gay men become priests the desires of the flesh are supressed yet remain, growing stronger like a hungry dog chained up in a basement. It doesn’t take too long before these desires overtake reason. As soon as the opportunity affords itself an offender is born.

My belief if that these offenders, the vast majority of whom are gay entered the priesthood with good intent. They did not enter the priesthood in order to victimize children. Michael Rose’s book points out how homosexuals have risen to the highest ranks in the authority structure of the church and have in the last 40 years appointed their buddies to run seminaries. In some cases, straight men who were seeking the vocation were “weeded out” during the selection process for being too conservative (and straight).

Randy Engel illustrates the same phenomenon in her book except to show that the problem goes back much further than the 20th century. This rituaized sexual abuse of children is institutional in the sense that it it exactly like a cancer that becomes part of the body. The explosive revelations in this year’s Ryan Commission Report regarding institutional physical and sexual abuse in Ireland is a perfect example. Untreated, it will keep growing.
 
What the heck does all this have to do with poor Christine09? I noticed no responses from her. I’m sure all this emphasis on good sex bad sex is really a help to the original question. For Pete’s sake, her husband is not selfish. They are not going to the pits of hell for a sexual problem. It isn’t even a sexual problem. It is an intimacy problem and two people desperately trying to kindle some intimacy into their marriage. Granted it is not exactly the best way to do that. Focus on the sins guys. Help them feel even worse. OK, look, as I said above, they need help with dealing with a special needs kid in a household of 6. This is unbearable stress. I’m sure all of you would do things not quite in line with the Catholic Church if you were so stressed… unless you are exeptionally holy. So poor Christine 09, simply find a good priest or deacon. Lay out the problems. Get guidance. God loves you both. As for the rest of you, go ahead. Think I’m a dissident for not crying sin, sin.
 
PS. And if the priest or deacon you go to for help makes you feel guilty in black and white thinking instead of helping you discern more constructive ways to create intimacy in the chronic stress, find another priest or deacon! “He who is without sin, cast the first stone.” “only God sees the heart”
 
According to the U.S. Center for Disease Control, Anal sex may eventually result in rectal cancer. No one should be participating in this regardless of religious affiliation.
 
I don’t wish to judge but for one, any kind of R rated movie is bordering on porn anyway and the thought of anal sex well as a male I wouldn’t dare treat a woman that way. I hate to be frank but your husband needs to address his issues.
Mind you I think he needs your Love( and I dont mean from a sexual perspective) and understanding

And be patient with your prayer.

I’ll keep praying for you both.
 
lovemyboys said:
The priest sexual abuse scandal is embarrassing. Even though I am Catholic, I don’t think that the celibate state is normal for men. Because I am a married woman, I know this for certain. I’m sure most priests are great people who deal with celibacy in a moral way, but some obviously become perverts because of the celibate state. Some of us hope that the Church will change its teaching on mandatory celibacy for new priests, but I still think it’s ludicrous to say that sexual abuse is an institutional part of the Church.
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I would say most priests cope with celibacy very well only problem is they don’t make the news only the few that have problems make the news and I would say their problems would still be there even if they weren’t celebate. Celebacy does not cause problems the problems are there to begin with
 
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