Sexual sins in the Bible

[Lazerlike42]

The Torah is the first 5 books. The Talmud is not the Bible at all. It is the Pharisaical teacings and laws, such as the regulations for changing pots during Passover and so forth.

 

[Danw]

Fidelia, look at Galatians 5:19. Different translations may word it differently, fornication, impurity, licentiousness. VS 19-22 says those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
God bless

 

[Valke2]

Slightly off topic:

I thought the Torah was the first 5 books of the Old Testament, and the Talmud was basically what Christians call the entire Old Testament (perhaps plus or minus a few books).

That would be what we call the Tanakh (Torah, prophets, psalms, etc.). The Talmud is the codification of the oral Torah, that jewish tradition holds was originally given to Moses at Sinai. It is essentially the book that tells us how to obey the commandments in the Torah.

It’s not clear to me why you would provide both a “Torah explanation” AND a “Talmud explanation.” Isn’t there one overall Jewish answer? Is the morality of fornication a matter of controversy at this point in the Jewish community?

The Jewish answer is that fornication if prohibited. But that it was prohibited by the Rabbis, as set forth in the Talmud. The act of fornication is not prohibited in the Five Books of Moses. I answered this way because the OP wanted to know if the scripture prohibited two people sleeping together who are not married. Since she isn’t Jewish, the prohibition set forth in the Talmud wasn’t really relevant for her.

 

[Mintaka]

Everybody already knew that fornication was prohibited, so there was no need to go on and on about it.

After all, nowhere in the Bible does it say, “Thou shalt not stick beans up thy brother’s nose until they bruise his brain, for that is an abomination in My sight.” And yet, everyone knows that this is not proper Jewish or Christian behavior, and displeases God.

God doesn’t need to tell anyone this, because Mom, Dad, and the rest of the family have already told you, or expect you to know.

 

[Valke2]

Everybody already knew that fornication was prohibited, so there was no need to go on and on about it.

After all, nowhere in the Bible does it say, “Thou shalt not stick beans up thy brother’s nose until they bruise his brain, for that is an abomination in My sight.” And yet, everyone knows that this is not proper Jewish or Christian behavior, and displeases God.

God doesn’t need to tell anyone this, because Mom, Dad, and the rest of the family have already told you, or expect you to know.

I would have to disagree. In fact, there are examples of fornication in the OT that were not prohibited. Example is Judah sleeping with Tamar (who has disguised herself as a prostitute so that she can conceive a son by his bloodline). There is nothing in the story that condems Judah for sleeping with a prostitute.

 

[Lazerlike42]

I would have to disagree. In fact, there are examples of fornication in the OT that were not prohibited. Example is Judah sleeping with Tamar (who has disguised herself as a prostitute so that she can conceive a son by his bloodline). There is nothing in the story that condems Judah for sleeping with a prostitute.

There are lots of things in the Bible that are stated to have happened without giving any moral judgment on them one way or the other. Sometimes, the Scriptures are more concerned with saying what happened than antthing else.

For instance, there are cases of adultery in the Bible which are not stated to be wrong, but we know God does consider them wrong, as can be seen in the commandments, and in the case of David and Bathsheba.

 

[Valke2]

There are lots of things in the Bible that are stated to have happened without giving any moral judgment on them one way or the other. Sometimes, the Scriptures are more concerned with saying what happened than antthing else.

For instance, there are cases of adultery in the Bible which are not stated to be wrong, but we know God does consider them wrong, as can be seen in the commandments, and in the case of David and Bathsheba.

David is chastised for that act. It is clear from the scripture that he sinned by doing what he did. Does not Nathen upbraid him for his action?

 

[Fidelia]

Fidelia, look at Galatians 5:19. Different translations may word it differently, fornication, impurity, licentiousness. VS 19-22 says those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
God bless

I think I have seen that verse. I forgot where it was though. Are there any other verses in the NT?

 

[DallasCatholic]

David is chastised for that act. It is clear from the scripture that he sinned by doing what he did. Does not Nathen upbraid him for his action?

Excellent point, Nathan does tell David that God will forgive him but that, because of David’s sin the child born to David will die (paraphrase, of course, from 2 Samuel 13-15).

Valke2 I appreciate your comments on the Torah, Tanakh and Talmud…it is very educational to have a jewish perspective in these forums.

 

[Valke2]

Thank you Dallas

 

[Lazerlike42]

David is chastised for that act. It is clear from the scripture that he sinned by doing what he did. Does not Nathen upbraid him for his action?

I didn’t mean that there is no judgment made on David’s act. I was offering it to show that adultery clearly is condemned in Scripture, even though there are other cases of adultery in the Bible of which there is no particular moral judgment offered, the point being that not every instance of an immoral act is specifically declared to be so in the Bible. This doesn’t detract from the fact that these acts are nevertheless immoral.

 

[Valke2]

I didn’t mean that there is no judgment made on David’s act. I was offering it to show that adultery clearly is condemned in Scripture, even though there are other cases of adultery in the Bible of which there is no particular moral judgment offered, the point being that not every instance of an immoral act is specifically declared to be so in the Bible. This doesn’t detract from the fact that these acts are nevertheless immoral.

But I don’t think there are cases of adultry set forth in the Bible where no particular moral judgment is offered. At least I can’t think of any. But even if I am wrong, the OT clearly holds adultry to be a sin punishable by death. There is no such clear prohibition against the act of having sex with an unmarried woman.

 

[Mintaka]

The point of Tamar’s story is that she did what she did only because it was her legal duty. She had to get her dead husband an heir. The rest of the family kept frustrating her legal duty, but she made sure it got done.

Judah’s condemnation was pretty much implicit. He didn’t protect Tamar, he didn’t help Tamar, and then he went and slept with somebody he thought was a pagan prostitute. His undutiful and mean actions allowed him to be totally pwned by God and the virtuous and clever Tamar.

 

[Valke2]

The point of Tamar’s story is that she did what she did only because it was her legal duty. She had to get her dead husband an heir. The rest of the family kept frustrating her legal duty, but she made sure it got done.

Judah’s condemnation was pretty much implicit. He didn’t protect Tamar, he didn’t help Tamar, and then he went and slept with somebody he thought was a pagan prostitute. His undutiful and mean actions allowed him to be totally pwned by God and the virtuous and clever Tamar.

I don’t see condemnation of sex outside of marriage in that story. Certainly Judah is not punished for sleeping with a prostitute. His crime is that interfering with Tamar’s legal rights and his son’s legal obligation.