"Sexual" Thoughts During Intercourse

[TLM08]

In order to heighten the pleasure of the marital embrace, If it is sinful for a man have thoughts of attractive female attributes that his wife may not possess?

Not so fast ladies… Is it sinful for a woman to have thoughts of tenderness and romantic qualities that her husband may be lacking in order to enhance her pleasure experience?

 

[TLM08]

In order to heighten the pleasure of the marital embrace, If it is sinful for a man have thoughts of attractive female attributes that his wife may not possess?

Not so fast ladies… Is it sinful for a woman to have thoughts of tenderness and romantic qualities that her husband may be lacking in order to enhance her experience?

 

[Mirror_Mirror]

In order to heighten the pleasure of the marital embrace, If it is sinful for a man have thoughts of attractive female attributes that his wife may not possess?

Not so fast ladies… Is it sinful for a woman to have thoughts of tenderness and romantic qualities that her husband may be lacking in order to enhance her pleasure experience?

To me, what you are saying is taking the act of the marital embrace and twisting it into something that is should not be. It seems that you are making it into a selfish act, whereas the act is a selfless act.

To answer your question, my thought would be yes. It would be the sin of lust. Pope John Paul II was highly criticized when he said that “men could lust after their wives” but it is true. You can make your wife an instrument for your own selfish pleasure.

I see no reason to give my wife any attribute that God has not already given her. The pleasure of the marital embrace far surpasses any other pleasure that I can think of and that is because of my understanding of what that act is and my wife and I being in complete agreement about that. I am not focused on what she does not have, I am more absorbed in the beauty that she does possess. That leaves me not time for anything else.

 

[Dredgemate]

In order to heighten the pleasure of the marital embrace, If it is sinful for a man have thoughts of attractive female attributes that his wife may not possess?

Not so fast ladies… Is it sinful for a woman to have thoughts of tenderness and romantic qualities that her husband may be lacking in order to enhance her pleasure experience?

I don’t understand the question. are you asking if they fantasize about someone else? I

 

[TLM08]

To me, what you are saying is taking the act of the marital embrace and twisting it into something that is should not be. It seems that you are making it into a selfish act, whereas the act is a selfless act.

To answer your question, my thought would be yes. It would be the sin of lust. Pope John Paul II was highly criticized when he said that “men could lust after their wives” but it is true. You can make your wife an instrument for your own selfish pleasure.

I see no reason to give my wife any attribute that God has not already given her. The pleasure of the marital embrace far surpasses any other pleasure that I can think of and that is because of my understanding of what that act is and my wife and I being in complete agreement about that. I am not focused on what she does not have, I am more absorbed in the beauty that she does possess. That leaves me not time for anything else.

The “world” screams the exact opposite. The number of breast augmentations performed these days is evidence of an extremely sick and shallow society. Men who ask their wifes to have this done are jackasses and the women who comply truly pathetic in their ignorance. It is all very sad what modern culture has done to the whole God given idea of romantic intimacy. So I hear what you are saying, but not everyone at your level of spiritual maturity.

More to my point would be to state that it can be difficult not to have sexually charged thoughts enter the mind during “the embrace”. Fighting them can be difficult, if they should be fought off at all.
Would God want the act to stop and all parties go to their neutral corner should these thoughs enter the mind?

 

[TLDenmark]

I think it would be an example of disordered desires, and would become sinful if the person in question were to willfully embrace such thoughts. While not involving any pictures/movies in a physical sense, such mental stimulations are very similar to couples using porn to “enhance” their sexual encounters.

God bless you
TL

 

[TLM08]

I don’t understand the question. are you asking if they fantasize about someone else? I

No! That would be obviously sinful.

 

[Mirror_Mirror]

The “world” screams the exact opposite. The number of breast augmentations performed these days is evidence of an extremely sick and shallow society. Men who ask their wifes to have this done are jackasses and the women who comply truly pathetic in their ignorance. It is all very sad what modern culture has done to the whole God given idea of romantic intimacy. So I hear what you are saying, but not everyone at your level of spiritual maturity.

More to my point would be to state that it can be difficult not to have these thoughts enter the mind during “the embrace”. Fighting them can be difficult, if they should be fought off at all.
Would God want the act to stop and all parties go to their neutral corner should these thoughs enter the mind?

That is why I can label myself as a non-conformist, I do not follow what the “world” says. I know we are on the same page with that.

I do not think that it is so difficult to avoid these thoughts. Again, speaking from personal experience, I do not see the need to think of some other feature that my wife does not have while in that act. I tend to think that most people are focused on what is going on and their spouse in front of them.

I think that it would be strange to be intimate with your wife thinking to yourself, “hmmm what would it be like if her breasts were bigger?” That just seems like too much of a stretch for me.

If these thoughts are entering your head (I am not saying that they are) then I think that you need to spend time reflecting on the gift of sexuality that God has given to you and your spouse. I would also recommend reading “The Good News About Sex and Marriage” by Christopher West. This is an eye-opener.

 

[TLDenmark]

More to my point would be to state that it can be difficult not to have sexually charged thoughts enter the mind during “the embrace”. Fighting them can be difficult, if they should be fought off at all.
Would God want the act to stop and all parties go to their neutral corner should these thoughs enter the mind?

No, I think He would want you to focus on your spouse. So instead of fighting the images in your head, open your eyes and look at your wife while thinking about how much you love her. Then again, I am a single without any real experience in this field .

God bless you
TL

 

[Dredgemate]

No! That would be obviously sinful.

Well, to be honest, I find it hard to believe that in throws of passion a husband would be thinking, ‘Gee, I wish my wife’s boobs were bigger’…

 

[TLM08]

Hang onto your hats folks, but I must ask this question:

What if your darling husband or wife’s (or both) physical appearance deteroirated to the point where physical arousal was just not there no matter how much you loved that person. Lots of mature couples resort to living pretty much like brother and sister due to this.

This is the reality for some couples, especially after 30 or more years of marriage!

 

[TLDenmark]

Hang onto your hats folks, but I must ask this question:

What if your darling husband or wife’s (or both) physical appearance deteroirated to the point where physical arousal was just not there no matter how much you loved that person. Lots of mature couples resort to living pretty much like brother and sister due to this.

This is the reality for some couples, especially after 30 or more years of marriage!

Would it be right to use porn in such an instance? If not, why would mental porn be any different? My take on the question, is that you deal with it as good as you can. Also what is not to love about a loving wife, sex is as much about thoughts, smells and feelings as it is about looks.

God bless you
TL

 

[Mirror_Mirror]

Hang onto your hats folks, but I must ask this question:

What if your darling husband or wife’s (or both) physical appearance deteroirated to the point where physical arousal was just not there no matter how much you loved that person. Lots of mature couples resort to living pretty much like brother and sister due to this.

This is the reality for some couples, especially after 30 or more years of marriage!

Again, it comes back to the meaning of the marital embrace. Lust is not a part of this embrace, not on your honeymoon, not after 30 years of marriage.

Good points made by TL.

 

[TLM08]

Again, it comes back to the meaning of the marital embrace. Lust is not a part of this embrace, not on your honeymoon, not after 30 years of marriage.

Good points made by TL.

So is taking pleasure in the physical is sinful? Would you consider a woman who wears lingerie guilty of causing her husband to lust? What if she were to dance for him?

Is it sinful for a young man to include a “great body” and good looks on his list of desireable traits when seeking a good catholic girl to marry?

I am really having a hard time with this blindfold mentality.

We need to be very careful how we define “lust” or we all might as well go ahead and pluck our eyes out!

 

[ForwardProgress]

I think Mirror Mirror is trying to say that it’s not necessary for one’s wife to look ‘hot’ or ‘sexy’ in order to get the marriage act to happen. The thoughts of the experience itself should be enough for the man to get things going, otherwise some other things could take place to make it happen.

It shouldn’t rely on just looks to get a man ready. Love should transcend this.

 

[Mirror_Mirror]

So is taking pleasure in the physical is sinful?

I never said that it was. Pleasure is a part of the marital embrace, but that is not the sole purpose of the act.

Would you consider a woman who wears lingerie guilty of causing her husband to lust?

You are starting to twist things around here, using a play on words that does not relate to you original question. Lingerie is something that can be worn as a part of the act and not cause the husband to look at his wife with a lustful eye or as a object to satisfy his own personal pleasure.

What if she were to dance for him?

Same as above

Is it sinful for a young man to include a “great body” and good looks on his list of desireable traits when seeking a good catholic girl to marry?

I never said that this is sinful, but it comes down to what is most important in life. Is it a good body? Or is it a good soul? Of course there needs to be a physical attraction. No one is going to deny that. But if you fall in love and marry a woman only for her body, then you have issues that I cannot solve for you.

I am really having a hard time with this blindfold mentality.

Trust me when I tell you that you are not alone. I have struggled with the same issues that you are talking about in the past. It is not easy to get past them. It takes time, prayer and a concerted effort on your part.

We need to be very careful how we define “lust” or we all might as well go ahead and pluck our eyes out!

Let’s just follow what the Catechism teaches:

2351 Lust is disordered desire for or inordinate enjoyment of sexual pleasure. Sexual pleasure is morally disordered when sought for itself, isolated from its procreative and unitive purposes.

 

[TLM08]

Would it be right to use porn in such an instance? If not, why would mental porn be any different? My take on the question, is that you deal with it as good as you can. Also what is not to love about a loving wife, sex is as much about thoughts, smells and feelings as it is about looks.

God bless you
TL

Let me take it to the far end here:
Suppose a husband or wife’s body weight has doubled or even tripled as happens in our modern fast food world and although the marriage remains loyal and loving, the sight of this is sexually repulsive to the other spouse. Would God expect him or her to “suffer” through the marital act without roaming thoughts a more physically fit spouse?

Most good men / women can remain loyal and loving and faithful to a 400lb spouse, but if this were my situation, it would be the ultimate turn-off. Intercourse would be the last thing that would come to mind.

The same question could apply to the spouse of a severe burn victim, or any other extreme change in appearance… for whatever reason. It’s a terrible situation for all involved.

To avoid sin, would celibacy be the standard? Or would that be a sin too? These are hard questions about things that happen all of the time!

 

[TLDenmark]

Let me take it to the far end here:
Suppose a husband or wife’s body weight has doubled or even tripled as happens in our modern fast food world and although the marriage remains loyal and loving, the sight of this is sexually repulsive to the other spouse. Would God expect him or her to “suffer” through the marital act without roaming thoughts a more physically fit spouse?

Most good men / women can remain loyal and loving and faithful to a 400lb spouse, but if this were my situation, it would be the ultimate turn-off. Intercourse would be the last thing that would come to mind.

The same question could apply to the spouse of a severe burn victim, or any other extreme change in appearance… for whatever reason. It’s a terrible situation for all involved.

To avoid sin, would celibacy be the standard? Or would that be a sin too? These are hard questions about things that happen all of the time!

It would not be ideal, so in that sense it would be disordered. But life is sometimes hard and human beings frail, so we are going to fall short more than once. Then again if you are unable to turn of the lights and concentrate on the more desirable qualities of your spouse (overweight people can have beautiful smiles), the feelings of her touching you, the love you have for her, etc., it might be better to at least try to fantasize about the way she once looked.

Also if the problems have their origin in junk food, she might consider a diet and some exercise. Overeating is a sin as well, and she ought to have an interest in helping the marriage and to keep healthy.

God bless you
TL

 

[Annn]

This post operates on the assumption that men and women seek completely different things in sex…that men are sex machines looking for gratification and that women are all into emotions. Neither is true. Human beings are much more complex than that!

 

[Calliso]

This post operates on the assumption that men and women seek completely different things in sex…that men are sex machines looking for gratification and that women are all into emotions. Neither is true. Human beings are much more complex than that!

Just my thoughts! As for it being a sin. I think if your still thinking of your spouse it is not. But it could easily become a situation where you start fantasizing about someone else…or create a situation where you just aren;t attracted to your spouse at all anymore. So I think it is best to avoid doing so in most cases.