Sexuality - a gift from God?

[PennitentMan]

Stemming from another thread here, I was wondering:

Was sex ever a “gift” from God…I mean did He ever say that?

Could it not have been “one of those things” that comes with life, like breathing? (Not just like breathing, but you know what I mean…)

I’m not trying to belittle intimacy, or the Sacrament of Marriage in any way, I’m just wondering.

I definately think that man has distorted something that is supposed to bring two people together, into an abomination, and is not using it for it’s intended purpose, but was it ever really a gift?



Thanks for the responses.

 

[homewardbound]

I found this article interesting:

dailyprincetonian.com/archives/2006/04/06/arts/15106.shtml

Some info from it I thought might be relevant:

"Marital sex is good, for it honors God, cultivates physical and emotional intimacy, strengthens the marriage and provides immense physical pleasure, and right, for it expresses obedience to God’s commands. To deny this is to deny the Biblical doctrine of sexuality and hence to deny the authority, honesty and provision of God.
There are four primary purposes that Scripture gives us for marital sex: pleasure, intimacy and unification, avoidance of sexual temptation and procreation. First, Proverbs 5:18, 19 says, "[R]ejoice in the wife of your youth ... Let her breasts fill you at all times with delight; be intoxicated in her love." Hebrews 13:4 reads, "Let marriage be held in honor among all, and let the marriage bed be undefiled." The Bible even includes "The Song of Solomon," which describes the immense love and passion of a physical, emotional and spiritual nature between husband and wife. The song serves in part as an "instruction manual" on God's gift of marital sex and the joys that it provides. Second, sex creates a permanent union between husband and wife that no one should separate (Matt 19:4-6; Gen 2:24; Eph 5:28-31). Third, husbands and wives are not to deprive each other of sex lest either be tempted by Satan into adultery (1Cor 7:2-5). Finally, marital sex can provide the blessing of children (Gen 1:27, 28)."

 

[PennitentMan]

Thank you for the post.
I understand and agree with all those aspects of sexuality, it’s right and good, but I do not see it as a gift.

Does God call it a gift? I cannot recall that He does.

Pretty much every person I speak to that “does it right” according to the Catholic doctrine is suffering or struggling with it.

I’m wondering if anyone is ever actually, really fulfilled in their sexuality.

It can bring forth some great beauty between husband and wife, but also can bring much pain.

I think it’s not a gift…

 

[aurora77]

Sexuality is such a beautiful gift. You might check out the writings of Christopher West, www.nakedwithoutshame.com He explains this wonderfully, using the teachings of John Paul II.

I don’t think anyone who “does it right” as you put it, can be struggling. Sex in its proper context can bring a married couple closer together and possibly allow them to participate in God’s miracle of creating life. What could be more wonderful than that?

 

[LittleDeb]

Yes God does say it is a gift. Right there in Genesis. In His image he made them male and female.

I think part of your struggle is that you are viewing sexuality only as something one does with ones genitals. Our sexuality is not only about what our sexual organs and reproductive organs can accomplish. Our sexuality is about all of ourselves. Yes, people who seem to struggle with the responsibility of procreation seem to struggle with other aspects of their entire sexuality.

Theologian Peter Kreeft has some amazing things to say on the topic of sexuality in general and sexual symbolism as a whole, here. peterkreeft.com/topics-more/sexual-symbolism.htm

An example he discusses is a nun in prayer. She is a sexual being. She is female. When she prays it is a woman in prayer. No matter how much we act like the complementary sex, we are still who we are.

I have some masculinity in me, (very little actually) but I have no “maleness” in me. I am a female. One of the important points Kreeft points out is that our society is generally confused on the order of masculine/feminine and male/female. Many people hold that male/female is first and masculine/feminine is our society’s interpretation of it. Not so. Masculine/feminine is universal. Masculine is always about giving and feminine is always about receiving. Male and female are a reflection of masculine and feminine.

Yes, this pregnant mother and her devoted husband enjoy our sexuality very much.

 

[homewardbound]

To me, the fact that sexuality between a woman and man is included so much in the Bible and looked upon favorably by God makes it obvious that it is a gift.

Any married couple who is in love and practices their love together according to God’s rules in the Bible has a very fulfilling sex life. Any couple I know of have a very fulfilling one.

Its hard for those who have never experianced this gift to believe in it, especially with the way society today treats sex. But it definitely is there for those who seek it accordingly.

 

[ALotLessThumb]

Wasn’t God’s first command to Adam and Eve, Be Fruitful and Multiply?

I don’t think He was expecting them to practice osmosis

 

[Em_in_FL]

Thank you for the post.
I understand and agree with all those aspects of sexuality, it’s right and good, but I do not see it as a gift.

Does God call it a gift? I cannot recall that He does.

**Pretty much every person I speak to that “does it right” according to the Catholic doctrine is suffering or struggling with it.

I’m wondering if anyone is ever actually, really fulfilled in their sexuality. **

It can bring forth some great beauty between husband and wife, but also can bring much pain.

I think it’s not a gift…

You mention that not only you (I’ve followed your threads), but others you’ve spoken to are “suffering or struggling” with it…
I’m very sorry to hear this.

I cannot think of a greater gift within my own marriage. My husband and I find our sexuality to be extremely fulfilling and beautiful.

It seems to me that maybe there are deeper issues involved in some marriages that just struggling with the sexuality. I think deeper problems can be exposed in the area of sexuality, but aren’t necessarily caused by the sexuality itself…
Does that make sense?

Have you considered marriage counseling?

 

[PennitentMan]

You mention that not only you (I’ve followed your threads), but others you’ve spoken to are “suffering or struggling” with it…
I’m very sorry to hear this.

I cannot think of a greater gift within my own marriage. My husband and I find our sexuality to be extremely fulfilling and beautiful.

It seems to me that maybe there are deeper issues involved in some marriages that just struggling with the sexuality. I think deeper problems can be exposed in the area of sexuality, but aren’t necessarily caused by the sexuality itself…
Does that make sense?

Have you considered marriage counseling?

That gives me a bit hope, I’m glad that you are fulfilled.

What you say does make sense, but I don’t think it’s applicable in my situation. There is nothing deeper, my wife and I have spoken about this in gfreat length too, and there is nothing.

Honestly, the only thing that I can think of is a slight case of Post-partum depression.

And, I am slowly coming to the realisation that it’s all in my head.
I hate that, but every time I express my feelings to my wife or my priest, they say that I just need an attitude adjustment.

Dunno how I’m going to go about that, but that’s what they say…

 

[Black_Jaque]

Hey PM.

It’s me again, Black Jaque.

OK. Here’s your problem. In your first post you seem to be taking “breathing” for granted. Yes breathing is a “gift” from God. Your very life is a gift from God.

Could it be that you are oppressed under this nagging sensation that life itself is more trouble than it’s worth?

Time to soldier up! Start fighting evil and you’ll find yourself living out one fantastic adventure story. Be sure to keep a journal because someone will come across it after you die and publish it.

It occured to me that the whole of the Catholic sexual ethic is not to protect us from being corrupted by the worldliness of sex. Instead the Catholic sexual ethic is set up to protect the very sacred gift of sex from being corrupted by us!!!

I’ll say it again.

The Catholic sexual ethic is set up to protect the very sacred gift of sex from being corrupted by us!!!

Take some time and meditate on what it means to be sacred. What do people do when they consider something as sacred?

They dare not change the character of it. They take great pains to preserve it’s integrity - leave it unchanged.

For example: pick any cultural monument or artifact. Say the Declaration of Independence. It is kept somewhere in entirety. Preserved in one piece because it does not belong to us, but it belongs to our future generations. President Bush dare not use it as a placemat. We can’t sell it to Bill Gates so he can hang it in his living room. It has a purpose and that is for all Americans to be able to see it, and verify that these are the words that founded our country. These are the words that our soldiers have died for. That “all men. . . are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights. . .”

Would it be OK for Freedom From Religion, or the ACLU to demand that “by their Creator” be struck out of the original document?

NO WAY! The Declaration of Independence needs to be preserved in entirety because it is a document sacred to the American people.

Such it is with human sexuality. It is an original document, written by God, and we do not have the authority to make changes.

 

[PennitentMan]

Hey PM.

It’s me again, Black Jaque.

Hey dude!

OK. Here’s your problem. In your first post you seem to be taking “breathing” for granted. Yes breathing is a “gift” from God. Your very life is a gift from God.

True…I guess I didn’t see things that way

Could it be that you are oppressed under this nagging sensation that life itself is more trouble than it’s worth?

Quite possibly could be very true. I have been struggling with depression lately and I have often asked that question…I sometimes struggle to see the “life in abundance” that we read about.
Even though I am extremely blessed, I still feel like this.
I guess if one is feeling like this and small thing happen they may seem bigger than they are.

It occured to me that the whole of the Catholic sexual ethic is not to protect us from being corrupted by the worldliness of sex. Instead the Catholic sexual ethic is set up to protect the very sacred gift of sex from being corrupted by us!!!

Thanks for this insight, I agree with you…my OP:

“I definately think that man has distorted something that is supposed to bring two people together, into an abomination, and is not using it for it’s intended purpose,”

I’ll try fight the evil where I can, but mostly I guess I need to change my perception on life…how do I do that whilst being so depressed and dispondent?
I’m going to try a few things and see if that turns me around.

Thaks for the post and the insights, I really appreciate the (name removed by moderator)ut

PM

 

[Em_in_FL]

Quite possibly could be very true. I have been struggling with depression lately and I have often asked that question…I sometimes struggle to see the “life in abundance” that we read about.
Even though I am extremely blessed, I still feel like this.
I guess if one is feeling like this and small thing happen they may seem bigger than they are.
…
…

I’ll try fight the evil where I can, but mostly I guess I need to change my perception on life…how do I do that whilst being so depressed and dispondent?
I’m going to try a few things and see if that turns me around.

Thaks for the post and the insights, I really appreciate the (name removed by moderator)ut

PM

Hi PM… hmmm… well have you considered the possibility that you may be personally dealing with depression? Have you considered searching for a psycologist to discuss any thoughts you may be having?

I know you mentioned that your marriage really doesn’t have any issues other than the sexuality concerns…
Has your wife seen a doctor to investigate any medical causes for her lack of libido?

I’m just trying to throw out some other ideas that may help???
This is obviously a difficult cross for you to bear… and you’re working hard to deal with it the best you can. You’ll be in my prayers that God is with you in your struggles.

 

[PennitentMan]

Hi PM… hmmm… well have you considered the possibility that you may be personally dealing with depression? Have you considered searching for a psycologist to discuss any thoughts you may be having?

I know you mentioned that your marriage really doesn’t have any issues other than the sexuality concerns…
Has your wife seen a doctor to investigate any medical causes for her lack of libido?

I’m just trying to throw out some other ideas that may help???
This is obviously a difficult cross for you to bear… and you’re working hard to deal with it the best you can. You’ll be in my prayers that God is with you in your struggles.

Hi Em

Yeah, I have been thinking about that and I am taking a herbal anti-depressant at the moment.
So it actually allows me to seek the casue of the feelings (I have been doing some serious introspection the last two days, can you tell from the frist few posts to now? )
I still wonder if the feelings are frmo a mild case of post-partum depression…that’s all I can think of.
But as of now I just feel so disillusioned about things, even when things are fine…
That’s as far as I got.
Wierd, hu?..

As for the wife, nope, she maintains that it’s just normal.
Maybe she’s right, and I’m imagining it all…
I’m sure it’s just me…

Anyway, I think I’m just in the middle of a depression and that has made me disillusioned, and that’s that.

Thanks for all the help and thoughts, you guys really care!

Thank you!

PM

 

[Black_Jaque]

I’ll try fight the evil where I can, but mostly I guess I need to change my perception on life…how do I do that whilst being so depressed and dispondent?

There’s the million $ question!!!

Seek treatment for depression? Excersize? Pick up a hobby? Get involved in a cause?

That’s kind of what I meant by “fighting” - get involved in a cause. Your perception changes from “the world is an awful place” to “well yeah, but I’m working on changing it” to “I’m enjoying doing it”.

 

[Black_Jaque]

As for the wife, nope, she maintains that it’s just normal.
Maybe she’s right, and I’m imagining it all…
I’m sure it’s just me…

Caution! God put a sexual drive in you for a reason. It’s not “normal” for you to hate that drive.

It may be normal for her libido to drop or not be as high as yours. But your libido doesn’t drop. So the answer is somewhere between “none at all” and “every day, man!”.

 

[Martin_Le_Fay]

How can sexuality be a “gift” at all? Typically, when I give something to someone else, it is generally understood that it is theirs to use or misuse as they choose. But our bodies, and by extension our sexuality, are not ours. They ultimately belong to God. This means that they can’t be a gift in any kind of normative sense. It’s more of a loan.

 

[PennitentMan]

Caution! God put a sexual drive in you for a reason. It’s not “normal” for you to hate that drive.

It may be normal for her libido to drop or not be as high as yours. But your libido doesn’t drop. So the answer is somewhere between “none at all” and “every day, man!”.

Well, right now that drive is causing me a bit of heartache and yearning…I’m at the Once a month…maybe stage…

 

[Black_Jaque]

I’m at the Once a month…maybe stage…

Does your wife ever send the message that she thinks you are being shallow and selfish for wanting intimacy? Like it’s somehow your problem for being such a glutton for cheap thrills.

Does your wife seem like she really understands the profound depth and meaning of married sexuality? Or does she treat the topic almost as if you weren’t married yet?

In our attempt to protect young women’s purity we convince them that a man who “just wants sex” is not the type who would make a good husband. This is specifically referring to men who seek sex without giving their commitment in marriage. Hence men are pegged as “animals” or “wolves”.

The problem is when these women aren’t taught that a husband who just wants sex is pretty darn easy to take care of and likely makes a good catch.

Or worse yet, do YOU think you are being selfish and shallow for wanting intimacy?

Part of it is MEN get tricked into this line of thinking. They think that their sexual desires are shallow and must be stifled in order to be “civilized”. Then when the get “denied” by their own wives they tuck their tail between their legs and walk away. Because they want to be a man of honor, yet they can’t get rid of this horrid blemish in their make up.

If you’re convinced that the problem is you, then you’ll never have the backbone to fight for the sake of your marriage. But if you can get it through your thick head that your sexuality is a good thing that God gave you then what you are requesting is something great and noble. Something worth sacrificing for. Something that is not only good for you, but good for the marriage, and consequently good for your wife. Even if your wife isn’t 'in the mood" it’s still good for her. Why? Because it goes towards building a strong marriage, and your wife depends on that marriage.

I think you’ve got to take a stand on this matter.

And that brings me to my earlier point. Once you stand up to your wife, that heartache and yearning will become … oh … how can I put it … easier to carry.

And just one last remark to give you some ammo. Don’t be deceived into thinking that true love doesn’t expect anything in return. That is rubbish. Even Jesus has expectations of us. “Take everything you have, sell it, give the money to the poor, and follow me.” He just doesn’t demand that we meet his expectations before he fulfills his end of the bargain. And that is what we must do. . . fulfill our end of the bargain, while at the same time laying the expectations on our spouse to do the same.

 

[BlestOne]

Thank you for the post.
I understand and agree with all those aspects of sexuality, it’s right and good, but I do not see it as a gift.

Does God call it a gift? I cannot recall that He does.

Pretty much every person I speak to that “does it right” according to the Catholic doctrine is suffering or struggling with it.

I’m wondering if anyone is ever actually, really fulfilled in their sexuality.

It can bring forth some great beauty between husband and wife, but also can bring much pain.

I think it’s not a gift…

I have seen some of your other posts and I am sorry you are having problems. I would like to say that my DH and myself see this as a gift, a quite beautiful and fulfilling gift at that. I think we are “doing it right” according to your idea of Catholic doctrine. I think I understand what you are talking about though, because I went through an ex-husband that had no sex drive at all. I joke about scheduling children so I could have sex, but shamefully, it wasn’t a joke. My ex had some pretty severe mental problems and along with it came the lack of interest in sex. I literally cried myself to sleep every night for at least 2 or 3 years, Probably more like 5. Talk about chastity, I thought I was a born again virgin! I know how bad it hurts, but this is never a reason for sins of a sexual nature. Heck, I would have settled even for hugs back then…but I didn’t even get that. I will pray for you and your wife… I wouldn’t wish that pain and hurt on my worst enemy! I am so sorry for your pain!

 

[PennitentMan]

Thank you for the great posts from Black Jaque and from BlestOne.

You make some good points Black Jaque,
My wife treats the subject very casually. Nothing is wrong,
we’re just very busy.

Like I said in a previous post, my wife is wonderful and I know she has rough days, just like me, so I can’t expect it from her at the drop of a hat.
I know how to read the signs of headache, tiredness, etc…

**Please note:**This happens during a small window in our month when she is not fertile, since we practice natural family planning, so when the time comes that we can be intimate, her enthusiasm is just not there…

So, when the signs are there, sometimes I don’t want to ask or advance anymore. I know what the outcome will be and it makes me feel like I’m this overly sexual person that can’t get enough or something. So I try to suppress the urge.

But, like I said, I think I need to adjust my attitude/mindset and be content with the once a month-maybe scenario, Maybe I’m too selfish in wanting it more when we obviously can’t do it more often.

This was the cause of my dispair in the first place though, thinking like in the paragraph above leads me to frustration. And that can lead to occasions of sin…
So, do I go back and try my luck again when there will be none?

Round and round I go…

It’s sooo confusing, but I really just need to get my mind straight.
I’m sure it’s not this bad at all, I’ll make peace with the once a month thing, and I’ll be happy