Sexuality and Priesthood

[St_Aloysius]

Hola!

I’m 14 (maybe 15, I can’t remember) and I’ve been discerning the priesthood for some time now. I feel as thought my call is mission work in the Orient–specifically Japan, actually. (Francis Xavier is my inspiration…) I’m attracted to the Franciscan Order a lot, too.

Well, that’s all well and good, right? Except that I’m bisexual… This complicates things, but I am striving for chastity early in life so as to please God and make my life a perpetual offering to him. But I’m wondering: Could my sexuality interfere with my desire to enter the priesthood one day?

I’d take it to the Holy Father himself to assert that I truly believe this to be a calling–and if not, I feel like I have nowhere else to go. This is my passion and where I feel like my life’s been leading.

Thanks in advance!

(Oh, and Happy New Year!)

 

[ASimpleSinner]

Hola!

I’m 14 (maybe 15, I can’t remember) and I’ve been discerning the priesthood for some time now. I feel as thought my call is mission work in the Orient–specifically Japan, actually. (Francis Xavier is my inspiration…) I’m attracted to the Franciscan Order a lot, too.

Well, that’s all well and good, right? Except that I’m bisexual… This complicates things, but I am striving for chastity early in life so as to please God and make my life a perpetual offering to him. But I’m wondering: Could my sexuality interfere with my desire to enter the priesthood one day?

I’d take it to the Holy Father himself to assert that I truly believe this to be a calling–and if not, I feel like I have nowhere else to go. This is my passion and where I feel like my life’s been leading.

Thanks in advance!

(Oh, and Happy New Year!)

Start dealing with a regular confessor - if he agrees, go weekly. Attend Mass daily whenever possible, and focus on your studies avoiding near occasions of sin where your chastity will be challenged.

You have several years before seminary is even an option. We can talk about all these things then.

In the mean time, go to confession and communion often.

One preist I truly respect offers the advice that young men discearning the priesthood should ONLY speak about it with their confessor/spiritual director. I happen to agree.

I will keep you in my prayers.

 

[iviking]

People aren’t born bisexual. It’s a physical disease with the person who believes they are bisexual, homosexual, transgender etc…

If you don’t change before you want to start the seminary education, then the Priesthood is unfortunately not the right place for you. I would recommend that you seek help with a good confessor. Start living as a normal person (not bisexual) and find a good Catholic therapist if you need to.

 

[St_Aloysius]

People aren’t born bisexual. It’s a physical disease with the person who believes they are bisexual, homosexual, transgender etc…

With all due respect… that’s bunk. And any medical professional, or respected psychologist, will tell you the same. I don’t know if it’s “inborn” and research in this area is inconclusive, but I HAVE had tendencies like this since as far back as I can remember–toddler years and even earlier. Certain events and my parental relationships helped to solidify it, but the fact’s the same in any case.

Read the Catechism on this area. It does not so much as imply that the Church believes sexuality to be some kind of illusion to be conquered, but rather states its reality and calls people such as myself to chastity, the life I am making an honest attempt to live.

Please to do not presume to know what I’m going through without having thoroughly studied the issue or without having been there yourself.

sigh Sorry, I just hate this kind of ignorance…

 

[LtPaint]

Personally, I would say continue to live a life of chastity, see a confessor regularly, and if you don’t have one already, get a spirtual director.

As long as your willing to live a life of chastity, then I don’t see what the issue is.

 

[vocatio]

Personally, I would say continue to live a life of chastity, see a confessor regularly, and if you don’t have one already, get a spirtual director.

As long as your willing to live a life of chastity, then I don’t see what the issue is.

…And teach chasitiy is such a state then and only then should you consider the priesthood. I you can’t get past this, then you should not be a priest. A seminarian that thought he could get away with this ended up getting kicked out, thankfully. He was trying to recruit and put a couple of other seminarians in a serious mental state.

 

[iviking]

With all due respect… that’s bunk. And any medical professional, or respected psychologist, will tell you the same. I don’t know if it’s “inborn” and research in this area is inconclusive, but I HAVE had tendencies like this since as far back as I can remember–toddler years and even earlier. Certain events and my parental relationships helped to solidify it, but the fact’s the same in any case.

Read the Catechism on this area. It does not so much as imply that the Church believes sexuality to be some kind of illusion to be conquered, but rather states its reality and calls people such as myself to chastity, the life I am making an honest attempt to live.

Please to do not presume to know what I’m going through without having thoroughly studied the issue or without having been there yourself.

sigh Sorry, I just hate this kind of ignorance…

Please give me the quote then. God doesn’t create persons as bisexuals, but as man and woman. It wasn’t my intention to upset you, but you can not become a Priest if you are a “bisexual” I will keep you in my prayers.

 

[iviking]

Personally, I would say continue to live a life of chastity, see a confessor regularly, and if you don’t have one already, get a spirtual director.

As long as your willing to live a life of chastity, then I don’t see what the issue is.

The issue is that Homosexuals, and bisexuals, and people with such tendencies, can’t study at a seminary.

 

[vocatio]

What you mean to say is that homosexual or bi-sexual oriented men are no longer allowed in the seminaries. I can give you many case and point of why not. I had to deal with predators in the seminary. The sex scandals are really not a homosexual problem though. But as a precaution the vatican stepped up the requirements for entry into seminary formation.

I saw a group of men, seminarians that went to a “play house”. I didn’t realize it at first what was happening. I was invited by one of them. It was their weekend excursion. I forgot how I got out of it, but I know I said something to the effect that I had to go down because of homework or something. I wasn’t nor have I have had homosexual tenencies. This is why I am not very trusting of homosexuals as a whole. I’ve learned that they will try to recruit you even if they know you’re not gay. This is probably the untold reason for not allowing homosexuals in the seminaries…at least for now. My understanding is that in order to be considered for entry into a seminary you must first successfully live chaste without actively engaging or expressing your same sex tendencies.

This topic is of great concern to me after my very startling discoveries while in seminary formation. And now that I have at least one son interested in the priesthood, I do not want to see his vocation derailed by illicit activity going on around him. This should not happen. The struggle for chastity in celibacy is difficult enough without journeying through whether or not you’re gay. I went for a year during and after wards wondering if somehow deep down inside I was homosexual and just didn’t know it. No. I was perfectly fine and maybe too attracted to women. But I was definitely not gay. I can see how anyone can fall deep into sin like this, the same as falling into other addictions like porn or drugs or whatever. But being able to control oneself is absolutely necessary to become a priest. I personally know one priest, my former offender, and another priest from my former Diocese that have been laicized. Both are now married. One of them continues to influence everyone in the Church without even knowing it though it is clearly identified who he is.

Former Seminarian

 

[iviking]

“Advantage to religious vows and ordination should be barred to those who are afflicted with evil tendencies to homosexuality or pederasty, since for them the common life and the priestly ministry would constitute serious dangers.”

papalencyclicals.net/John23/j23religios.htm

 

[bilop]

The sex scandals are really not a homosexual problem though.

I agree with the vast majority of your post, however this is not true.

The John Jay study of Priestly sexual misconduct in the U.S. showed it to be very much a homosexual problem.

Something like 80% of the abused were boys, and the vast majority of these were teenagers, not small children.

It was not an issue of pedophilia, but of gay men preying on teenage boys. Just like male school teachers prey on teenage girls, and increasingly female schoolteachers prey on teenage boys.

God Bless

 

[PBP]

I recommend “Theology of the Body” by Christoper West. Check his site…the talks are on audio or in print.

 

[vocatio]

…The John Jay study of Priestly sexual misconduct in the U.S. showed it to be very much a homosexual problem.

Something like 80% of the abused were boys, and the vast majority of these were teenagers, not small children.
God Bless

Okay…assuming your right on this…this is what I used to hold as fact…but when we had to go through the class oriented to protect children and vulnerable adults they said otherwise… When I bailed on the church it was for perceiving what you say is true. The problem I had was that when the bishop just swept me under the rug I knew it was way beyond me. After growing up some more and getting that military edge as an NCO, the only reason I didn’t leave was because I didn’t want to cause division like Martin Luther and I even tried looking at other faiths to see if maybe Catholics were simply “apostate” [more on that in other posts]. I had yet to meet any Catholic women interested in me, a faithful Christian…Catholic… I knew what the church wrote it taught but what you read did not match what leaders or even priests taught. I decided that God must still be calling me because I’m still single and feel called…so I began seminary style formation to get ready… It was only a bazaar situation that led me to meet my wife. I even tried to run from her and her family at one point but something very dramatic happened that felt like a miraculous sign to me [won’t elaborate]. So instead of running it made me more open to listening to her proselytizing father who was a better example that any Catholic I have ever met… Even today I’d stack him up to really good Catholics. But the history in the Church is killing it inside. That’s why so many run… It’s one of the reasons for clerical abuses. Before realizing I was being allowed to marry my wife, from above, not at the military diocese office, I felt very strongly called to change things in the Church by entering into priestly formation. I knew I would be a thorn in the side of the Bishop, but after all he diserved it for allowing all the teenagers I discovered were abused by the same guy, before I met him… It boiled my blood.

A lot of Prostestants make up or exagerate to play up their own anti-Catholicism… This was not really different. But the truth mixed in with a little twisted thinking with someone that doesn’t thing really clear is dangerous. I still believe that priestly celibacy is wonderful, but it may be time to lift that requirement for a while just to heal the fears of the flock. I personally believe it would bring dignity back or trust back to the clergy…a much needed healing. I’m no authority nor would I even try to overstep my boundaries again on this subject. If my wife was more supportive I’d actually go to one of the Eastern Catholic Parishes. Initially on my journey back to the Church I wanted to become an Eastern Orthodox and reserached it to the point of getting to know a few Orthodox priests. I still love the divine liturgy and their theology. It’s absolutely wonderful. But I am Catholic and I’ll leave the rest for another day. I’ve posted on this before. I came back to the Church by way of the East. My wife converted to Catholic before me.

My wife converted…we both have lightened up on homosexuals as long as they do not practice it they are okay. I’m not convinced that they too may be being called, however because of our secular society and the over exposure to sensations that lead us into sin they have fallen much the same way heterosexuals fall into porn…what our previous faith referred to as “secret sin”. Porn is killing American families. Homosexuality is another form of twisted urges that grow in us if left unchecked. I’m still not convinced that it isn’t psychological more than genetic. There may be cases where genetically it’s true, but not to this level. That’s why you see and hear so much on bi-sexuality. Just my dumb opinion.

So should we light our torches and protest!

 

[Rebelecka]

At age 14/15 I can make a guess that you may have confused ideas about what you sexuality really is:

Point: It seems to be the “in thing” to be bisexual these days. I mean, doesn’t that show that we’re not “homophobic?”

Point: Do you actually want to have sex with a person of the same gender? Or do you just know persons of your gender that you find admirable, worthy of respect, that you feel a certain love for? (note–I find my brothers admirable, handsome, respectable and I love them-----but I sure don’t want to have sex with them!)

Don’t be too quick at your age to ascribe a permanent sexual identity to yourself.

 

[vocatio]

This will sound wierd, so bear with me.

When I was growing up I took various martial arts styles. I feared hurting someone …particularly in the knees or nose. I learned to disable someone and I never really handled it well. I felt all kinds of anxiety. It wasn’t until after joining the military and learning discipline to control anger and urges to hurt that I came to peace with it.

I went through a time of wondering if I was “gay”…but that really was because other men attracted to me kept hitting on me. I though maybe I’m in denial. What I finally realized is that other guys allowed themselves to go where they shouldn’t… After aging a bit more I finally realized that I’m not a bad looking guy and it was them, not me. I have not tendencies for this. I personally believe that any person is capable of deeply disturbing sexual sin. Once the urges get going its very difficult to stop. Now the Lord has blessed me with a level head and I survived this. I was a victim in the sense that several older men aggressively pursued me against my will. Some didn’t get it and treated me like **** because I rejected there illicit unwanted pursuits.

Put you whole heart into Christ. Turn to the Blessed Mother for help to pray for you and comfort you during your moments of struggle. Just because you have an urge doesn’t mean you have to follow through with it nor does it necessarily mean you are homosexual or bisexual. I feel like I want to terminate my boss sometimes…but I won’t and just because I feel angry for the abuse doesn’t mean I will follow my urge. Crazy sounding I know…looking at getting a different job so that I don’t feel this way. You should do the same…find new friends to hand out with that will not temp you in this way.

Praying for you.

Mr. Mark [what the kids in our daycare call me]

 

[jfallaw]

I think saying a non-practicing bi/homosexual cannot be a priest is like saying a recovered drug addict cannot be one. Some of the best saints started out as the worst sinners. Def discuss it with your spiritual advisor and keep resisting any urges. I think the most important thing is to be able to resist. If you can do that, I see no reason why you shouldn’t be a priest. Question, though. Is this an actual sexual attraction to men, or is it more platonic? Because I have, I believe and for lack of better term, ‘fallen in love with’ close male friends, with absolutely no sexual attraction or desire. In fact the thought of that repulses me. But I have also had female friends that I felt like that with, with absolutely no sexual overtones.

 

[ASimpleSinner]

I think saying a non-practicing bi/homosexual cannot be a priest is like saying a recovered drug addict cannot be one. Some of the best saints started out as the worst sinners. Def discuss it with your spiritual advisor and keep resisting any urges. I think the most important thing is to be able to resist. If you can do that, I see no reason why you shouldn’t be a priest. Question, though. Is this an actual sexual attraction to men, or is it more platonic? Because I have, I believe and for lack of better term, ‘fallen in love with’ close male friends, with absolutely no sexual attraction or desire. In fact the thought of that repulses me. But I have also had female friends that I felt like that with, with absolutely no sexual overtones.

“Advantage to religious vows and ordination should be barred to those who are afflicted with evil tendencies to homosexuality or pederasty, since for them the common life and the priestly ministry would constitute serious dangers.”

papalencyclicals.net/John23/j23religios.htm

I have a really difficult time believing or accepting that when Blessed John XXIII penned that he was differentiating between celibates and non celibates. In point of fact, it would have been dealing with candidates who were expected to be non-practicing… It is what it is without much further qualification.

 

[jfallaw]

papalencyclicals.net/John23/j23religios.htm

I have a really difficult time believing or accepting that when Blessed John XXIII penned that he was differentiating between celibates and non celibates. In point of fact, it would have been dealing with candidates who were expected to be non-practicing… It is what it is without much further qualification.

Yes, that was a part of the Holy Father’s opinion on the matter.

1. Those To Be Excluded; Practical Directives
2. A candidate who shows himself certainly unable to observe religious and priestly chastity, either because of frequent sins against chastity or because of a sexual bent of mind or excessive weakness of will, is not to be admitted to the minor seminary and, much less, to the novitiate or to profession. If he has already been accepted but is not yet perpetually professed, then he should be sent away immediately or advised to withdraw, according to individual cases, no matter what point in his formation he has already reached. Should he be perpetually professed, he is to be barred absolutely and permanently from tonsure and the reception of any Order, especially Sacred Orders. If circumstances should so demand, he shall be dismissed from the community, with due observance of the prescriptions of canon law.
3. Consequently, any candidate who has a habit of solitary sins and who has not given well-founded hope that he can break this habit within a period of time to be determined prudently, is not to be admitted to the novitiate. Nor can a candidate be admitted to first profession or to renewal of vows unless he has really amended his ways. But if a novice or a temporarily professed religious gives evidence of a firm purpose of amendment with good grounds for hope of success, his probation can be extended as provided for in canon law (canons 571, S2; 574, S2; 973, S 3; Stat. Gen., art. 34, S 2, 3 ).

Well-grounded hope of amendment can be provided by those youths who are physically and psychically normal or endowed with good bodily and mental health, who are noted for solid piety and the other virtues intimately connected with chastity, and who sincerely desire the religious and priestly life.

1. A much stricter policy must be followed in admission to perpetual profession and advancement to Sacred Orders. No one should be admitted to perpetual vows or promoted to Sacred Orders unless he has acquired a firm habit of continency and has given in every case consistent proof of habitual chastity over a period of at least one year. If within this year prior to perpetual profession or ordination to Sacred Orders doubt should arise because of new falls, the candidate is to be barred from perpetual profession or Sacred Orders (cf. above, no. 16) unless, as far as profession is concerned, time is available either by common law or by special indult to extend the period for testing chastity and there be question of a candidate who, as was stated above (no. 30, 2) affords good prospects of amendment.

 

[jfallaw]

cont…

1. If a student in a minor seminary has sinned gravely against the sixth commandment with a person of the same or the other sex, or has been the occasion of grave scandal in the matter of chastity, he is to be dismissed immediately as stipulated in canon 1371, except if prudent consideration of the act and of the situation of the student by the superiors or confessors should counsel a different policy in an individual case, sc., in the case of a boy who has been seduced and who is gifted with excellent qualities and is truly penitent, or when the sin was an objectively imperfect act.

If a novice or a professed religious who has not yet made perpetual vows should be guilty of the same offense, he is to be sent away from the community or, should the circumstances so demand, he is to be dismissed with due observance of canon 647, S 2, 1 . If a perpetually professed religious is found guilty of any such sin, he is to be perpetually excluded from tonsure and the reception of any further Order. If the case belongs to the external forum, he is to receive a canonical warning unless, as provided for in canons 653 and 668, there be grounds for sending him back to the world (cf. Stat. Gen., art. 34, S 2, 4 ).

Lastly, should he be a subdeacon or deacon, then, without prejudice to the above-mentioned directives and if the case should so demand, the superiors should take up with the Holy See the question of his reduction to the lay state.

For these reasons, clerics who in their diocese or religious who in another community have sinned gravely against chastity with another person are not to be admitted with a view to the priesthood, even on a trial basis, unless there be clear evidence of excusing causes or of circumstances which can at least notably diminish responsibility in conscience (Circular Letter of S. C. of the Sacraments, n. 16; Canon Law Digest, 4, p. 314).

Advantage to religious vows and ordination should be barred to those who are afflicted with evil tendencies to homosexuality or pederasty, since for them the common life and the priestly ministry would constitute serious dangers.

1. Very special investigation is needed for those students who, although they have hitherto been free of formal sins against chastity, nevertheless suffer from morbid or abnormal sexuality, especially sexual hyperesthesia or an erotic bent of nature, to whom religious celibacy would be a continual act of heroism and a trying martyrdom. For chastity, in so far as it implies abstinence from sexual pleasure, not only becomes very difficult for many people but the very state of celibacy and the consequent loneliness and separation from one’s family becomes so difficult for certain individuals gifted with excessive sensitivity and tenderness, that they are not fit subjects for the religious life. This question should perhaps receive more careful attention from novice masters and superiors of scholasticates than from confessors since such natural tendencies do not come out so clearly in confession as in the common life and daily contact.

Similarly, precautions are needed in examining the children of alcoholics or those tainted with some hereditary weakness, especially in the mental order (cf. Stat. Gen., art. 33; 34, S 1).

---

The section in context merely appears to be a warning about practicing homosexuals, or why all the previous urging to carefully study each candidate? Why:

1. If a student in a minor seminary has sinned gravely against the sixth commandment with a person of the same or the other sex, or has been the occasion of grave scandal in the matter of chastity, he is to be dismissed immediately as stipulated in canon 1371, **except if prudent consideration of the act and of the situation of the student by the superiors or confessors should counsel a different policy in an individual case, sc., in the case of a boy who has been seduced and who is gifted with excellent qualities and is truly penitent, or when the sin was an objectively imperfect act.
   **
   ? The Holy Father thought it’s ok, under certain circumstances, to forgive a religious who has commited homosexual acts, but not even give a person who has not commited any acts despite their tendencies a chance at all? I don’t buy it.

OP. don’t give up! Prove your desire to serve God and your ability to stay free from ALL sin!

 

[ASimpleSinner]

? The Holy Father thought it’s ok, under certain circumstances, to forgive a religious who has commited homosexual acts, but not even give a person who has not commited any acts despite their tendencies a chance at all? I don’t buy it.

You don’t have to buy it, its not for sale. Even 10K+ characters worth of clipped and pasted papal document to get to that point, I stand by my thinking on this one. And have some confidence that is the thinking of the magisterium as well.

What you add emphasis to talks about the forgiveness of an act under certain circumstances or exceptions and is nuanced in saying as much and giving brief account for what may make it possible to continue on in formation in light of a falling.

This is two different matters: Screening for an impediment before admission to seminary and/or advancement to vows/orders, and situations where those already in formation may continue on.

The latter group will of course be comprised of those who were screened from the former.