Shaming as societal self correction

[ThoughtfulMind]

How do you guys feel about shaming? Church teaches we should not do it, on the other hand we can see that for millenia it worked as self-correcting process for society - it kept people from sinning. I recently watched Anna Karenina where it was apparent that people with bad morals were shamed and it mostly hold them away from sin or at least when someone did something wrong he didn’t dare to do it again, because he just experienced how bad it was to deal with the shame.

Today I feel we lack the shame which comes from wrong doing. It would be unthinkable to attend something like “pride parade”, because you would be viewed as a degenerate for the rest of your days. Today we are not suffering shame for anything. Could it be the problem why our society destroys itself?

Whats your view on it?

 

[DisorientingSneeze]

Plennnnttttyyyy of shaming is still going on, but it isn’t helpful or society correcting. People are shamed for their political beliefs, their spiritual beliefs, their parenting, oh boy are they shamed for their parenting! The problem with shaming someone is it doesn’t look inward. It lacks humility. If it ever was some kind if check valve, it wasn’t a good one.

 

[ThoughtfulMind]

Plennnnttttyyyy of shaming is still going on

Interesting view - I would say the shaming is now inverted (like everything in this world) and people are shamed for actual good deeds.

The problem with shaming someone is it doesn’t look inward

Wouldn’t the same apply to justice? Locking someone isn’t making an inward change.

I think there might be more to it and maybe it shouldn’t be viewed always as bad. I don’t know that’s why I wuld like to know other peoples opinions.

 

[Greenfields]

Shaming could very well hurt that persons family ,ruin their good name and reputation for a long time to come .

 

[ThoughtfulMind]

You are right, but wouldn’t locking someone up do such damage as well? We still do it and view it as a good thing.

 

[Greenfields]

If it’s for something of less damage and there isn’t a jail term.

 

[DisorientingSneeze]

Shaming doesn’t build community except to the degree that a society bands together against something or someone. Banding together for something seems healthier and more successful for a society.

 

[ThoughtfulMind]

Who decides what is less damage and what is not? You could be jailed in one country for something other permits.

 

[ThoughtfulMind]

I have to point again to the justice system. You could argue the same thing against the justice, yet we know justice is a virtue.

 

[DisorientingSneeze]

Maybe we need to know what shaming means to you in order to understand your argument. Punishment is sometimes necessary, shaming is not. Beyond that people can experience shame without recieving it externally.

 

[ThoughtfulMind]

Maybe we need to know what shaming means to you

Let’s say a husband meets, in his eyes, perfect woman (prettier and nicer than his wife). If there would be no consequences for him he would cheat on his wife with this woman, however since he knows the life would become a hell on earth if he did (shaming), he resists.

Later when some time passed he would realize he wasn’t really in love with that other woman and he would be glad he stayed with his family.

That’s what I mean by a good side of the fear of being shamed

 

[DisorientingSneeze]

I see. I’m not sure if he fears shame or he fears the loss of everything he loves, of fracturing nearly irreparably his relationship with his spouse. Atleast thats how I hope it would go, people vary greatly.

 

[ThoughtfulMind]

Atleast thats how I hope it would go

I would love to fope for the same thing too! : Unfortunately we can see that the shaming for cheating almost disappeard, the consequences are minor and a LOT of men choose to go that way.

 

[Shasta-Rose]

I’ve been saying for some time that we need to bring back shame, since nobody seems to have any of it any more.

 

[on_the_hill]

Shaming is hurtful. It provides the shamer with a temporary self-righteous burst of angry pride, a brief catharsis.

Remove the plank from your own eyes.

It’s the equivalent of Internet trolling.

Didn’t any of you read “The Scarlet Letter?”

 

[on_the_hill]

DisorientingSneeze:

Maybe we need to know what shaming means to you

Let’s say a husband meets, in his eyes, perfect woman (prettier and nicer than his wife). If there would be no consequences for him he would cheat on his wife with this woman, however since he knows the life would become a hell on earth if he did (shaming), he resists.

I have never cheated on my wife. But I can say that shaming would not be on the list of obstacles.

 

[edward_george1]

I seem to recall that the Romans engaged in a lot of “societal self-correction,” mostly in the form of crucifixion. I can think of a few famous examples of them shaming people in precisely that way that they thought were making trouble, just to make an example of them.

-Fr ACEGC

 

[JoeShlabotnik]

Better to pray for someone than to shame someone.

 

[on_the_hill]

because you would be viewed as a degenerate for the rest of your days.

And this would be wrong. And uncharitable.
As a Catholic I believe in redemption. If my brother sins seven times, how many times should I forgive him?

 

[ThoughtfulMind]

It provides the shamer with a temporary self-righteous burst of angry pride, a brief catharsis.

Perhaps it can, but is it always? You could (again) say that same thing about the judges in courts, yet we do not think about them this way.

And this would be wrong. And uncharitable.

Sometimes we have to be uncharitable to prevent evil. Like slaping kid on the but when he misbehave (I don’t know about U.S. but here in Europe it’s seen as proper way to teach your kids), to get them behave better next time.

I think the shaming can be just and unjust, like the justice. There has to be some boundaries, but I am not sure if it is wrong as a WHOLE. Let’s get back to this argument:

The problem with shaming someone is it doesn’t look inward.

It’s like if you force your kid to church. You have to do it, the kid will appreciate it later. The same goes with forcing people into good behaviour by the means of “shaming”. They might not like it today, but they’ll be glad later (like in my example about the cheating husband).