Sharia Law, should we in the states worry about it?

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First of all, there are many forms of the Sharia Law. The forms you have been hearing about on the news are the strict forms of the Sharia Law. The Sharia Law is a set of laws taken from the Qur’an and can be interpreted as strict, or not so strict. Muslims have been arguing over how strict these laws should be since Muhammad’s death. So don’t categorize all Muslims as believing the same type of strictness in the Sharia Law because there are a load of different opinions and interpretations regarding the Sharia Law among the Islamic world.

Second of all, the strict form we should not worry about. Neither should we worry about the shuttle form, at least when it comes to non-Muslims. Most of what is in the strict form of the Sharia can be considered as breaking the law, so most Muslims here in America would probably not follow the strict form. The shuttle form we don’t need to worry about either, most Muslims here in the U.S practice that form so it doesn’t influence non-Muslims.

We here in the states have nothing to worry about.
God bless. 😃
 
Isaiah45_9 said:
If this is as ridiculous as you say. Then this would have never made out court system in Oklahoma and later the Appellate Court in Denver, CO. In favor of blocking any impediments to Sharia law.

aclu.org/religion-belief/court-upholds-ruling-blocking-oklahoma-sharia-and-international-law-ban

In summary, the state of Oklahoma made an state constitutional amendment to prohibit the court system in their state to even consider the consultation of Sharia Law.
The appellate court ruled that the State of Oklahoma could not do that.

How ridiculous is this sounding now?
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So you believe it should be illegal for two Muslims to agree to binding civil arbitration regarding a contract based on their Sharia Law?

Why ?

The case you describe is quite the opposite of this thread. It is a state saying that certain contracts based on Muslim beliefs are illegal.
 
Jon_S said:
So you are asserting that the 8th amendment can allow for stoning an adulteress, cutting off people’s hands, caning someone for theft, and the death penalty for not converting to Islam or converting from Islam.

You see where these can be supported by our constitution? Please give examples. I am happy to engage in dialogue, but I don’t have much time for NONSense.
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Where is the 8th amendment for all the abortions? And abortions are not allowed by the Law of the Land, right? And States don’t have the liberty to set laws in regards to the pregnancy terms in which abortion is to be performed, right?

How about electrocuting or giving a lethal injection as means for ending a life - legally?

I can play the extreme game, Jon.

Can Sharia law adjust those laws to fit our system?

How much are our laws set in stone?

Bottom line is: I worry, Jon.

I am sworn to defend our Constitution and our Country. You or anyone else don’t need to worry, that is someone else’s job.
 
Jon_S said:
So you believe it should be illegal for two Muslims to agree to binding civil arbitration regarding a contract based on their Sharia Law?

Why ?

The case you describe is quite the opposite of this thread. It is a state saying that certain contracts based on Muslim beliefs are illegal.
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That’s what you believe.

I believe that our court system should be based in our laws.

Civil arbitration should be handled under the laws of the State where the arbitration is taking place.
 
Isaiah45_9 said:
Where is the 8th amendment for all the abortions? And abortions are not allowed by the Law of the Land, right? And States don’t have the liberty to set laws in regards to the pregnancy terms in which abortion is to be performed, right?

How about electrocuting or giving a lethal injection as means for ending a life - legally?

I can play the extreme game, Jon.

Can Sharia law adjust those laws to fit our system?

How much are our laws set in stone?

Bottom line is: I worry, Jon.

I am sworn to defend our Constitution and our Country. You or anyone else don’t need to worry, that is someone else’s job.
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I already addressed why abortion does not apply here (although it is in error). I would also say that most executions violate the 8th amendment and we are moving away from such barbaric practices.

No need to worry. I am sworn too. 🙂
 
Isaiah45_9 said:
That’s what you believe.

I believe that our court system should be based in our laws.

Civil arbitration should be handled under the laws of the State where the arbitration is taking place.
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So if you and I had a civil contract and it was based in catholic teaching, the state could make an amendment saying that such contracts are illegal.

Perhaps a work agreement barring participation in same sex marriage? Interesting.
 
I’m sure they said that it would never happen in the UK before it happened. :eek:

As a society, we do our best to point out to Muslim immigrants that beating and raping females is wrong (etc), but what happens when white Christians aren’t the majority population anymore? My state is the home of the largest population of Middle Easterners outside the Middle East. And they all aren’t Chaldean. (Iraqi Christian) We’ve got lots of Sunni/Shia immigrants as well. (In fact, they had a little tiff downtown when Saddam Hussein was captured - sigh).

Not only that, there is a huge Black (African American or just African) Muslim population as well.

We may not have to worry about it in this generation, but it will certainly something that our kids and grandchildren will have to confront.

Demographics will ultimately force the issue. Muslims are simply having a lot more kids than the Christians.

If the constitution can allow for legalized abortion and ObamaCare, then they’ll figure out how to twist it to fit Sharia Law. It’s not like our legal system really follows the Constitution in the strictest sense these days.

Yes, I agree that a lot of Muslims come here to avoid the extreme factions that exist in their home countries. However, I will not say all families. There are families which kill the teenage/20-something girls because the girls want to be more Western. There are many cases where the parents are moderate or not even Muslims, but the kids are radicalized Muslims.

Given how much our society cowers every time someone makes a joke about Mohammed, I’m just not optimistic. Christians take jokes about Jesus without ordering fatwas against the joke teller. Heck, Muslims even go after their own if the Muslim happens to be too moderate for their taste.

I pray that I’m proven wrong. I just can’t ignore what I see going on around me and act like there’s not going to be a problem.

A lot of this really isn’t rocket science, especially if you follow current trends in a realistic, logical fashion.
 
Jon_S said:
So if you and I had a civil contract and it was based in catholic teaching, the state could make an amendment saying that such contracts are illegal.

Perhaps a work agreement barring participation in same sex marriage? Interesting.
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How will the state handle our agreement?

The state can make an amendment in regards to the validity of our civil contract, yes. In fact, we could be violating state laws by ignoring them and doing a Catholic civil contract.

Is ignorance of the law an excuse to not follow it?

Isn’t it the same principle of an oral contract? The state will rule in accordance to their laws and the totality of circumstances? No? Why should it be any different?
 
Jon_S said:
I already addressed why abortion does not apply here (although it is in error). I would also say that most executions violate the 8th amendment and we are moving away from such barbaric practices.

No need to worry. I am sworn too. 🙂
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I always worry 😛
 
Kal2012 said:
I’m sure they said that it would never happen in the UK before it happened. :eek:

As a society, we do our best to point out to Muslim immigrants that beating and raping females is wrong (etc), but what happens when white Christians aren’t the majority population anymore? My state is the home of the largest population of Middle Easterners outside the Middle East. And they all aren’t Chaldean. (Iraqi Christian) We’ve got lots of Sunni/Shia immigrants as well. (In fact, they had a little tiff downtown when Saddam Hussein was captured - sigh).

Not only that, there is a huge Black (African American or just African) Muslim population as well.

We may not have to worry about it in this generation, but it will certainly something that our kids and grandchildren will have to confront.

Demographics will ultimately force the issue. Muslims are simply having a lot more kids than the Christians.

If the constitution can allow for legalized abortion and ObamaCare, then they’ll figure out how to twist it to fit Sharia Law. It’s not like our legal system really follows the Constitution in the strictest sense these days.

Yes, I agree that a lot of Muslims come here to avoid the extreme factions that exist in their home countries. However, I will not say all families. There are families which kill the teenage/20-something girls because the girls want to be more Western. There are many cases where the parents are moderate or not even Muslims, but the kids are radicalized Muslims.

Given how much our society cowers every time someone makes a joke about Mohammed, I’m just not optimistic. Christians take jokes about Jesus without ordering fatwas against the joke teller. Heck, Muslims even go after their own if the Muslim happens to be too moderate for their taste.

I pray that I’m proven wrong. I just can’t ignore what I see going on around me and act like there’s not going to be a problem.

A lot of this really isn’t rocket science, especially if you follow current trends in a realistic, logical fashion.
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Some good points, but I think you could make a better case even five years ago. Although I believe there is always a fear of retaliation when mocking Muhammad (see comedy central with south park) more people realize that it’s a double standard that doesn’t need appeasement.

White (liberals mostly) have had a feeling of self condemnation where they feel they must appease minorities due to their harsh treatment in the past. This has led to affirmative action for African Americans and some other minorities. So Americans begin lumping Muslims into this group until they realize that Islam isn’t a culture or a race, but a silly Religion that Liberal values should equally oppress as they do Christian values.

Look up Bill Maher on Islam, or see what the South Park creators tried. Check out Stephen Harper’s party’s (Canadian prime minister) most recent comments on Cair-Canada. Even the UK has just this week said they’ve gone too far. People really are waking up and realizing that Islam is a religion and needs no appeasement, even among Liberals.
 
Isaiah45_9 said:
How will the state handle our agreement?

The state can make an amendment in regards to the validity of our civil contract, yes. In fact, we could be violating state laws by ignoring them and doing a Catholic civil contract.

Is ignorance of the law an excuse to not follow it?

Isn’t it the same principle of an oral contract? The state will rule in accordance to their laws and the totality of circumstances? No? Why should it be any different?
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That’s not true. As long as our agreement does not require us to violate a law, then it is enforceable.

The principles and spirit of the contract is inconsequential. We could make a contract that I will pray the Rosary over the grave of your family members once a month in exchange for $500. (Set aside why this is a theologically bad idea) . That is an enforceable contract by the court.

This amendment would outlaw such contracts in regard to Muslims.
 
Too many of us understand the Constitution. We fight of it. Sharia law is doomed in the USA if we all continue to fight for the Constitution…

Still concerned? EDUCATE AND PROMOTE EDUCATION OF THE CONSTITUTION…

So many AMericans, younger and older, really are just ignorant of what and how the CONSTITUTION protects us!!!

R.E.A.D AND S.T.U.D.Y…THE REAL THING…STUDY…THE C.O.N.S.T.I.T.U.T.I.O.N. OF THE USA…

If our citizens really have been truly and accurately EDUCATED about OUR Constitution, things like Sharia Law dry up…
 
Jon_S said:
That’s not true. As long as our agreement does not require us to violate a law, then it is enforceable.

The principles and spirit of the contract is inconsequential. We could make a contract that I will pray the Rosary over the grave of your family members once a month in exchange for $500. (Set aside why this is a theologically bad idea) . That is an enforceable contract by the court.

This amendment would outlaw such contracts in regard to Muslims.
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I think I get what you’re saying. If you had agreed to pray the Rosary and accepted the $500, but afterwards became a Muslim and refused to honor the contract any longer, your point is that the courts could not enforce it either because it would impinge on your freedom of [your new] religion. Right?
 
WilT said:
Is it something we should worry about or is it a sort of unfair bias against the Muslims?
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What is your personal and education understanding of the USA Constitution?

Did you have quality education about it?

In your American education, were you taught it?
 
Stilldreamn said:
I think I get what you’re saying. If you had agreed to pray the Rosary and accepted the $500, but afterwards became a Muslim and refused to honor the contract any longer, your point is that the courts could not enforce it either because it would impinge on your freedom of [your new] religion. Right?
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Possibly, that’s not exactly what I was getting at but may very well work.

I’m not educated enough on Muslim business practices to use an example, and in the ACLU case part of why the amendment was tossed out was the state could prove no real threat if harm or need for the law.

It was just prejudicial appeasement.
 
Jon_S said:
Can you cite an example of this.

We have a separation of church and state. We also have the equal protection clause.

I would love to see an example of a court that said a rape charge was dismissed because of religious grounds.

This is nothing but xenophobic propaganda and nonsense.
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This did happen in Sweden, and the rapers got off because of sharia law allowing Muslim men to rape non muslim women. There are warnings in Europe for white European women not to walk alone in predominate Muslim areas. The female in question was blond haired and clearly not a Muslim.
 
robwar said:
This did happen in Sweden, and the rapers got off because of sharia law allowing Muslim men to rape non muslim women. There are warnings in Europe for white European women not to walk alone in predominate Muslim areas. The female in question was blond haired and clearly not a Muslim.
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We aren’t in Sweden

But I’d love to see a resource showing that Sweden made it legal for Muslims to rape whatever non Muslim they want.
 
Jon_S said:
That’s not true. As long as our agreement does not require us to violate a law, then it is enforceable.

The principles and spirit of the contract is inconsequential. We could make a contract that I will pray the Rosary over the grave of your family members once a month in exchange for $500. (Set aside why this is a theologically bad idea) . That is an enforceable contract by the court.

This amendment would outlaw such contracts in regard to Muslims.
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You speak of Common Law, not Civil Law…
 
Jon_S said:
We aren’t in Sweden

But I’d love to see a resource showing that Sweden made it legal for Muslims to rape whatever non Muslim they want.
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Yes, we are not Sweden but this stuff is cropping up in our court system and the media which is usually asleep at the wheel is not reporting this. Things like polygamy, underaged brides, divorce, force slavery etc and so on are being pushed and to sit back and think we will be ok because of the us constitution is putting your head in the sand. Already in England and many parts of Europe, sharia law is being pushed in our courts. Our freedom of speach is likewise threaten because one cannot say bad things about Islam and it’s prophet. Take a radio commentator like Michael Savage. Because he has said enough criticism about Islam, he is banned from entering England. Is that freedom of speach?
 
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