Sharia law

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Like I said: Arabic countries.

I’m not trying to fight with you.

But there is an agenda behind sharia law and pushing it in the West and it is financed by the Wahhabis of Saudi Arabia.

So they aren’t just local fringe groups.

We shouldn’t rise to the bait, nor should we shut them up. Let them speak so that all can hear their distorted bile.

However, we shouldn’t give them credence either.
You are absolutely right, and I agree with everything in this post. I was simply saying that we should ignore them, so eventually they will stop getting the satisfaction of knowing that they are bothering us. That’s the whole reason behind the terror attacks, you realize? They don’t do it to kill people; there are more effective ways of killing. They do it for the shock and awe value. It is much more profitable for them to demoralize a community and bait them into things that have no value (Iraq war???) than to attack them outright. If we learn from our mistakes, and don’t give them the satisfaction, then it will lose its effectiveness. And yes, you’d be surprised. Wahhabi’s in Saudi are “official” anti-Israel, but they are just as much in bed with the Zionist leaders as America is. Why? $$$$ It’s like a hierarchy. You’ve got the royal and rich Saudis on top, profiting from injustice EVERYWHERE (Israel, Afghanistan, Pakistan, USA, everything), and then their money trickles down to the terrorists that make sure that the injustice continues. It’s a sick cycle that needs to stop.
They call it Halal in Canada probably to avoid the negative connotations.
In this case, halal and Shariah can be used interchangeably. For banking to be halal (permissible), it has to be Shariah-compliant. The main thing is the avoidance of usury. Personally, as an ex-Muslim, I do not see the benefit in halal or shariah banking. It seems rather pointless. I’d rather keep my wealth than give it to a halal banking system where no interest is paid on loans that are taken out using my money.
 
Some countries (UK) have Shariah compliant banks, but I’m not sure if there are any here in the USA. Sharia banking is not exactly . . . profitable, considering the lack of riba. But nonetheless, I’m sure it’s an option.
Sharia banking is getting more accessible, but it’s still difficult given that outside of the Islamic Bank of Britain and the likes, there is only one bank (to my knowledge), Lloyds TSB, which offers sharia banking options to its customers. Even then, they only offer basic services. So unless you live in Bradford/London or somewhere, it’s going to be difficult to find a sharia account.

There’s also still not that much in the way of sharia-compliant options for Muslims who wish to use sharia for things such as wills and inheritance, business contracts or even social things such as marriages and divorces, unless you live somewhere where you’d be able to find a sharia-knowledgable lawyer, and most of them are London-based.
 
One that people need to understand about this “protected minority” idea is that it is not freely entered into, nor is it some kind of absolute guarantee of rights, rather it comes with all kinds of stipulations within the context of a clear unbalance of power, with the non-Muslims being conquered people, and these “agreements” essentially imposing a second-class (or worse) status on the conquered people.

The prototypical example perhaps being the Pact of Umar (9th century), which you may read here. It lays out quite clearly in its preamble, “When You [Muslims] marched against us [Christians],: we asked of you protection for ourselves, our posterity, our possessions, and our co-religionists”. In other words, this is a treaty made from subservience, in hopes that further destruction would not be visited upon the native people. It is in no way, then, an example of “Islamic tolerance” (I submit that there is no such thing as we would understand it in truly pluralistic societies). And, just in terms of development of law governing relations between the conquerors and the conquered, it is most definitely a step backwards. You will notice, for instance, that it forbids Christians from holding government office, yet prior to this 9th century extension of the original pact (which, as the analysis tells us, has shaped Muslim-non-Muslim relations ever since), we have the example of people like John of Damascus, who served as governor there after the death of his father (his grandfather having served, as well, during the time of the Islamic conquest). In fact, as EO priest Fr. Josiah Trenham points out in this talk on Sharia law in America, this is one of the ways we can reliably know the date of the Islamicization of Damascus, as John was eventually forced out of government service (along with all his fellow Christians), which is how he ended up spending his last days in a monastery.

So if there’s anything we shouldn’t be listening to, it’s the opinions of people who would have us believe that Islamic rule has somehow protected Christians or other minorities, and that this is thus a reason to either be kind to Islam, or not to be concerned about calls for Sharia to be extended to Western countries (Fr. Josiah provides an Orthodox Christian view of that question in the talk linked above, if anyone is curious). To be sure, there are “protections” enshrined in Islamic law for Christians and other “People of the Book”, but realistically they are used as a means of asserting Islamic power and dominance over us, not evidence of Muslim benevolence (though, to be fair, there have been examples of that in the long history Muslim-Christian relations, as in the case of 'Abd al-'Aziz, who began to govern Upper Egypt in 685 AD – the trouble is that they are horribly inconsistent. Even in the case of 'Abd al-'Aziz, who is remembered fondly for having strengthened the relative position of the Coptic Patriarch compared to the desecration and destruction that had occurred previously, the Muslim governor still ordered the destruction of crosses and the placement of signs promoting Islam and ridiculing Christianity over the doors of the churches throughout his territory).
 
A Muslim group with organizers linked to the Muslim Brotherhood is praying and lobbying near the Democrat Convention, to fight “Islamaphobia” and to push for the acceptance of Sharia law in the USA. What is Sharia law?
What these Muslims fail to realize is that the United States already has an excellent system of law in place. Their laws are not needed.

As of today, I think there is NO chance of Sharia Law being accepted in the United States. Too soon after September 11, 2001. In fact, I think Americans would violently oppose Sharia Law. And besides… if a certain high-ranking public employee ever spoke out in favor of it, he’d never get re-elected. Islam is already a sensitive issue for him.

Rightly or wrongly, there is alot of Islamaphobia in the U.S., and the best way for Muslims to fight this phobia is to PUBLICLY support the United States, PUBLICLY condemn terrorism, and ASSIMILATE into mainstream American culture.
 
As of today, I think there is NO chance of Sharia Law being accepted in the United States. Too soon after September 11, 2001. In fact, I think Americans would violently oppose Sharia Law. And besides… if a certain high-ranking public employee ever spoke out in favor of it, he’d never get re-elected. Islam is already a sensitive issue for him.
In fact, it would be a violation of the oath of office of any member of the three branches of federal government, who all pledge to uphold the Constitution.
 
I don’t understand how Iran is listed as a country where Christians are protected. There is a Christian minister in prison there as we speak with a death sentence hanging over his head. Granted, the sentence was imposed because he converted from Islam, but he is still a Christian and is not being afforded any protection. Quite the opposite, in fact.

I personally would prefer not to carry the prejudice that I feel - in fact, because of my many Muslim friends and colleagues, I’m truly ashamed of it. But my father was killed in an act of Muslim terrorism and the horrible things I’ve seen done in the name of Islam makes it very difficult to see this religion as anything but violent and hate filled. If the more moderate Muslims would be more vocal and public in their denunciation of the extremists it would go a long way toward helping their acceptance in this country. I’m afraid that right now though, all the majority of Americans can see is that Muslims want to take over and create a Muslim America.
 
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Zulfiqar:
And, as of now, there is no “true” Islamic country. The closest is Iran. Most other “Islamic” countries are actually Wahhabi countries. (Wahhabi = Osama bin Laden extremist). Wahhabism is Saudi Arabia’s official religion, for the record.
You can’t just disown the entire country of Saudi Arabia as not being Islamic. Every source on the books lists the religion of Saudi Arabia as Islam. And that the entire population is Muslim. So, you can try and say that that isn’t Islam. But frankly your opinion isn’t going to change facts. Let’s quote from a book of facts now:

The CIA World Factbook has this listing under Saudi Arabia:
“Religions: Muslim (official) 100%”.

Not a single other religion is listed.

Ok, so you don’t want to defend what Saudi Arabia does. Well, I don’t see how you can defend Iran as a “good Islamic country”. Iran wants to blow Israel off the map. Iran wants the streets of Jerusalem to run red with the blood of the Jews.
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Zulfiqar:
Wahhabi’s in Saudi are “official” anti-Israel, but they are just as much in bed with the Zionist leaders as America is.
And there it is- Zionist conspiracy theories… I’m going to go out on a limb and guess that your account won’t make it past the Trial Membership.
 
Since when have oaths meant anything?
In this context, they are meaningless only if we do not hold our elected officials to those oaths. As voters, it is our obligation to ensure that public officials adhere to their oaths of office. It is thus our own failure if they have indeed become meaningless.
 
A Muslim group with organizers linked to the Muslim Brotherhood is praying and lobbying near the Democrat Convention, to fight “Islamaphobia” and to push for the acceptance of Sharia law in the USA. What is Sharia law?
I did a little digging; here are a few reasons why sharia law would be bad for any society:

It orders apostates to be killed.

It demands that drinkers and gamblers should be whipped.

It allows husbands to hit their wives…

It allows an injured plaintiff to exact legal revenge—physical eye for physical eye.

It commands that a male (or female thief) must have a hand cut off.

It commands that highway robbers should be killed or mutilated.

It commands that homosexuals must be executed.

It orders unmarried fornicators to be whipped and adulterers to be stoned to death.

It orders death for Muslim and possible death for non—Muslim critics of Muhammad and the Quran and even sharia itself.
 
In this context, they are meaningless only if we do not hold our elected officials to those oaths. As voters, it is our obligation to ensure that public officials adhere to their oaths of office. It is thus our own failure if they have indeed become meaningless.
I was thinking more in the line of a judge or politician being removed from office, via impeachment, for hot adhering to his oath.
 
I did a little digging; here are a few reasons why sharia law would be bad for any society:

It orders apostates to be killed.

It demands that drinkers and gamblers should be whipped.

It allows husbands to hit their wives…

It allows an injured plaintiff to exact legal revenge—physical eye for physical eye.

It commands that a male (or female thief) must have a hand cut off.

It commands that highway robbers should be killed or mutilated.

It commands that homosexuals must be executed.

It orders unmarried fornicators to be whipped and adulterers to be stoned to death.

It orders death for Muslim and possible death for non—Muslim critics of Muhammad and the Quran and even sharia itself.
That’s just the punishment: how is Sharia Law when it comes to rules of evidence, hearsay, legal procedure, and the finding of guilt or innocence?
 
I did a little digging; here are a few reasons why sharia law would be bad for any society:

It orders apostates to be killed.
Where’s the evidence for this? Sources please.
It demands that drinkers and gamblers should be whipped.
Given both gambling and alcohol have caused great harm in society, this is not a bad thing…
It must also be said that whilst SOME Muslim countries such as Dubai allow alcohol to be be bought/sold or consumed, the punishment element comes only for public drunkeness (which is an offence under British and US law anyway). You are unlikely to be punished in Dubai merely for having a drink.
It allows husbands to hit their wives…
THis is a fallacy. The word which is commonly translated as ‘beat’ can also mean ‘leave’ and there is much argument as to which of these is the ‘correct’ translation.

Muslim men are required to treat any and all wives with kindness, love, respect and honesty. This was specifically commanded in the Qur’an but also by the Prophet Muhammad (saw) who said in the hadith ‘He is the best of believers who is the kindest to his wife’. When Aisha and his other wives began to disobey them, he did not raise even a finger to them but merely refused to have sex with any of them for a month.
It allows an injured plaintiff to exact legal revenge—physical eye for physical eye.
So does the Bible. But the Qur’an also says that an offer of compensation to the victim or his family is seen as best in the eyes of Allah.
It commands that a male (or female thief) must have a hand cut off.
It commands that highway robbers should be killed or mutilated.
Both of these were once common punishments in Christian countries and crime rates were low as a result.

I honestly can’t see any issue with amputation of limbs of thieves.
It commands that homosexuals must be executed.
I’m in trouble…😦
It orders unmarried fornicators to be whipped and adulterers to be stoned to death.
Again, this is something the Bible says also, so I can’t see why you criticize Islam for this.
It orders death for Muslim and possible death for non—Muslim critics of Muhammad and the Quran and even sharia itself.
Again, prove using Islamic sources (including Qur’an) that this is the case.
 
Where’s the evidence for this? Sources please.

Given both gambling and alcohol have caused great harm in society, this is not a bad thing…
It must also be said that whilst SOME Muslim countries such as Dubai allow alcohol to be be bought/sold or consumed, the punishment element comes only for public drunkeness (which is an offence under British and US law anyway). You are unlikely to be punished in Dubai merely for having a drink.

THis is a fallacy. The word which is commonly translated as ‘beat’ can also mean ‘leave’ and there is much argument as to which of these is the ‘correct’ translation.

Muslim men are required to treat any and all wives with kindness, love, respect and honesty. This was specifically commanded in the Qur’an but also by the Prophet Muhammad (saw) who said in the hadith ‘He is the best of believers who is the kindest to his wife’. When Aisha and his other wives began to disobey them, he did not raise even a finger to them but merely refused to have sex with any of them for a month.

So does the Bible. But the Qur’an also says that an offer of compensation to the victim or his family is seen as best in the eyes of Allah.

Both of these were once common punishments in Christian countries and crime rates were low as a result.

I honestly can’t see any issue with amputation of limbs of thieves.

I’m in trouble…😦

Again, this is something the Bible says also, so I can’t see why you criticize Islam for this.

Again, prove using Islamic sources (including Qur’an) that this is the case.
But that is the Law, not just what the Quran says.

There is no Christian Law which exacts any of these punishments: and we are living in the Now, not the middle ages.
 
That’s just the punishment: how is Sharia Law when it comes to rules of evidence, hearsay, legal procedure, and the finding of guilt or innocence?
Certainly for an accusation against a woman, the requirements for a court case under sharia are VERY high. There needs to be 4 witnesses, who are seen to be reliable, honest and moral people. If any is found to have committed perjury and dishonoured the woman, they are barred forever from ever being a witness. This is in contrast to the usual 2 witnesses of any other type of crime.
 
The Qur’an itself does not prescribe any earthly punishment for apostasy; Islamic scholarship differs on its punishment, ranging from execution – based on an interpretation of certain hadiths – to no punishment at all as long as they do not work against the Muslim society or nation.

Abdelhadi, Magdi (27 March 2006). “What Islam says on religious freedom”. BBC News. Retrieved 14 October 2009.

If execution for apostasy, in some cases, is misinformation, then I take it back. 👍
 
Kouyate Given both gambling and alcohol have caused great harm in society, this is not a bad thing…
Being whipped is a bad thing to me.
🤷
It must also be said that whilst SOME Muslim countries such as Dubai allow alcohol to be be bought/sold or consumed, the punishment element comes only for public drunkeness (which is an offence under British and US law anyway). You are unlikely to be punished in Dubai merely for having a drink.
I understand.
THis is a fallacy. The word which is commonly translated as ‘beat’ can also mean ‘leave’ and there is much argument as to which of these is the ‘correct’ translation.
OK, maybe I am wrong. However… Excerpt from the following; also see link at the bottom of the post: familysecuritymatters.org/publications/detail/women-under-sharia-law

"The Quran gives the husband the right to punish his wife if she goes outside the parameters that he draws for her. It provides men with instructions: “But those whose perverseness ye fear, admonish them and remove them into bed-chambers and beat them; but if they submit to you, then do not seek a way against them…” (Q 4.34).
Muslim men are required to treat any and all wives with kindness, love, respect and honesty. This was specifically commanded in the Qur’an but also by the Prophet Muhammad (saw) who said in the hadith ‘He is the best of believers who is the kindest to his wife’. When Aisha and his other wives began to disobey them, he did not raise even a finger to them but merely refused to have sex with any of them for a month.
👍
So does the Bible. But the Qur’an also says that an offer of compensation to the victim or his family is seen as best in the eyes of Allah.
Not under the new covenant.
Both of these were once common punishments in Christian countries and crime rates were low as a result.
But you don’t condone it - right?
I honestly can’t see any issue with amputation of limbs of thieves.
OK…:eek:
I’m in trouble…😦
So you agree that it commands that homosexuals be executed?
Again, this is something the Bible says also, so I can’t see why you criticize Islam for this.
I am not criticizing; far from it. New covenant under Jesus the Christ has no such commands; quite the opposite, " But I say, love your enemies! Pray for those who persecute you! Matthew 5
Again, prove using Islamic sources (including Qur’an) that this is the case.
islam-watch.org/authors/79-mirza/968-punishment-of-apostates-in-islam-is-death-by-beheading.html

Again, in no way am I criticizing…
 
Certainly for an accusation against a woman, the requirements for a court case under sharia are VERY high. There needs to be 4 witnesses, who are seen to be reliable, honest and moral people. If any is found to have committed perjury and dishonoured the woman, they are barred forever from ever being a witness. This is in contrast to the usual 2 witnesses of any other type of crime.
However the shoe is also on the other foot: if a woman is raped she needs four witnesses to prove that she is innocent, otherwise she could be guilty of immorality. We’ve seen cases in the news of women being whipped in public because they were raped, and they didn’t have 4 witnesses to prove they were doing nothing to incite the rape.
Riyadh (AsiaNews/Agencies) – A woman jailed after being raped could be lashed 100 times. Camille, an invented name, is a 35- year-old immigrant from the Philippines who has been in a Saudi jail since September 2009. As a result of her rape, she became pregnant, but miscarried because of harsh prison life.
Under Saudi Arabia’s rigid application of Sharia or Islamic law, sexual relations outside of wedlock are strictly forbidden, irrespective of whether the woman is consenting or not. In fact, rape is punished in accordance with rules laid down in the Qur‘an.
The woman’s mother told her story in an interview with GMANews.Tv. Last spring, Camille went to Saudi Arabia to work in a dental clinic to support her 5-, 14- and 15-year-old children. In August, a co-worker from Bangladesh raped her.
Knowing that extra-marital relations are punishable under Saudi law, she did not go to the police to file charges, and tried instead to leave the country and return to the Philippines.
During a routine medical examination that expatriates must undergo before leaving, doctors found that she was pregnant. An arrest warrant was issued against her and on 11 September 2009, she was locked up in Hafer al Baten Central Jail.
Because of the generally harsh conditions in Saudi prisons, Camille miscarried last December.
According to her mother, she is scheduled to go before the judges who could impose 100 lashes.asianews.it/news-en/Riyadh:-rape-victim-might-be-lashed-100-times-17425.html
The “Qatif Girl” Rape Case (Arabic: قضية اغتصاب فتاة القطيف‎) is a much-publicized gang-rape case. The victim was a teenage girl from Qatif (Eastern Province, Saudi Arabia), who, along with her male companion, was kidnapped and gang-raped by seven Saudi men in mid-2006. A Saudi Sharia court sentenced the perpetrators to varying sentences involving 80 to 1,000 lashes and imprisonment up to ten years for four of them. The court also sentenced the two victims to six months in prison and 90 lashes each for “being alone with a man who is not a relative” in a parked car.
A Saudi judge has ordered a woman should be jailed for a year and receive 100 lashes after she was gang-raped, it was claimed last night.
The 23-year-old woman, who became pregnant after her ordeal, was reportedly assaulted after accepting a lift from a man.
He took her to a house to the east of the city of Jeddah where she was attacked by him and four of his friends throughout the night.
She later discovered she was pregnant and made a desperate attempt to get an abortion at the King Fahd Hospital for Armed Forces.
According to the Saudi Gazette, she eventually ‘confessed’ to having ‘forced intercourse’ with her attackers and was brought before a judge at the District Court in Jeddah.
He ruled she had committed adultery - despite not even being married - and handed down a year’s prison sentence, which she will serve in a prison just outside the city.
She is still pregnant and will be flogged once she has had the child.
The Saudi Arabian legal system practices a strict form of medieval law. Women have very few rights and are not even allowed to drive.
They are also banned from going out in public in the company of men other than male relatives.
 
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