Shepherd's Chapel

[JAGCath28]

Very easily. If your dad is that sucked in to begin with, he’s probably not going to believe anything you say, and he’ll have to find out these things on his own. If you can ask him at least to agree to do some Bible study outside of this particular ministry that might help. From what I read on the pastor’s website, he puts a lot of what he thinks into the Scriptures, and a lot of times you can get someone to see the errors if you just ask them to think about it logically. Be ready to be blasted by your dad, though, people hold onto their beliefs stronger than anything.

My stepmom has him listening to another preacher (a Baptist one) so I think that is a start. It used to be that he wouldn’t listen to anyone other than Pastor Murray so the fact that he hasn’t already said, “This guy doesn’t know what he’s talking about.” or “I’m not being fed” or whatever is encouraging at least to me.

I’m basically gearing myself up for Easter. My sister is being confirmed in the Catholic church and since my dad used to be Catholic he has nothing nice to say about it. Our family dynamics are odd, but anyway, he’s coming to “support” her. However, knowing him, it will turn into a weekend of blasting our faith so I’m trying to prepare myself for this “battle”. Although, I know I will never be prepared enough and will HAVE to rely on God for strength through this one.

Thanks for all of your help!

As a side note, I googled them yesterday and spent all day (I feel so bad) researching about the church and PM. I wish I had done this years ago. I just never thought to do it. I figured whether I believed what this guy taught or not it really isn’t a big deal. Well, I found out a few things that pretty much seal the deal in my mind on Pastor Murray.

1. He gave a false prophecy about something in 1981. If you ever studied with him, you should know that he hammers and hammers not putting dates on anything and not to listen to anyone who does. So the fact that there is proof (which I’m trying to find) that he did this, to me shows what a hypocrite and false teacher he is.
2. His main teaching points are not something that are “his” in the sense that he isn’t the first to have his eyes opened to the “real truth” of God’s Word. Those teachings are the same that are taught by certain white supremecist groups. This really upsets me on multiple levels. When you first study with him, if you buy into what he’s teaching, you get a sense of awe that God chose you to have “ears to hear” and “eyes to see”. But if what he’s teaching for those with the ears and eyes is doctrine of white power, I can’t see how any Christian could want anything to do with it. How can you call yourself a man of God, but not love all of God’s creations?

God Bless,

Jessica

 

[tundramom]

Not a dumb question at all! Yes, he is. Jesus “Yeshua” the Christ. That is what he says.

Yeah. I thought he was the one… and he also pronounces YHWH a different way than I’ve ever heard.

in Christ
Steph

 

[joelmichael]

I am very sorry, I posted that in haste and did not post the source link:

http://www.carm.org/sites/default/files/theme055_logo.png

carm.org/religious-movements/shepherds-chapel

That site you referenced has some interesting things to say about our Catholic faith, too. Here’s a quote from one of the pages:

So, what is the CARM position on Roman Catholics?

CARM’s position is simple. If a Roman Catholic believes in the official Roman Catholic teaching on salvation, then he is not a Christian since the official RCC position is contrary to scripture.

I’d try to find another source if you want Catholics here to find you credible.

 

[look3467]

I first heard of it because my daughter came to me and told me that Satan had sex with Eve.
Well, I had to look into it and test it against what I understood of the bible.

It was an interesting take on things, but my spirit never quite settled on a for sure with what He was teaching.

I have no real problem with His views because He makes it a point that we can go directly to the Father which is a truth.

Other than that, well, he can believe what ever he wants as long as it does not call for tar and feathering on those who don’t believe as he does.

My advice to anyone, is to study the bible in its present form KJ version, asking God to give understanding.

Don’t get to excited about it because if your seeking more understanding of God, He will make Him self known to you.

Peace>>>AJ

 

[JAGCath28]

I found all of this through google so you can easily find more than I have.

Let’s first look at Shepherd’s Chapel and their website. If you go here, you can read their statement of faith and answer to the critics. I suggest reading those so you can get in your mind what the critics are saying.
shepherdschapel.com/index.cfm

One of the things that stuck out in my mind was his doctorate and the man, Roy Gillaspie. I don’t care if he does or doesn’t have a doctorate, but if you claim to have one, show your credentials, otherwise don’t put it in your title. So who is this Roy Gillaspie? “A Beloved Teacher”……
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Gillaspie

Roy Gillaspie was part of the white supremacist movement called Christian Identity Movement. What is the Christian Identity Movement?
carm.org/religious-movements/-religions-list/christian-identity-movement
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Identity
nizkor.org/hweb/orgs/american/christian-identity/religion-white-racists.html

They teach that the lost tribes of Israel are Britain and Americans. (If you’ve studied with Brother Arnold, this should sound familiar) They teach that Adam was white (due to a misinterpretation of the word adam or adamah in Hebrew) to mean ruddy complected instead of its true meaning which is red, or red earth (as in clay ….Genesis 2:7 God formed Adam out of clay). All leading to white power. So, how could Brother Arnold consider Roy Gillaspie a “beloved teacher” if he didn’t agree with him considering that he teaches what Roy Gillaspie’s movement teaches. Now, I don’t know if you noticed the part of the “Soldiers of the Cross.” If you read the wiki article you will see that the Church of Jesus Christ was under the umbrella of Soldiers of the Cross which were located in both California and Arkansas. Soldiers of the Cross was founded by a man named Ken Goff who was a white supremacist. He is said to have signed Brother Arnold’s 1958 minister’s license. (I don’t know how to verify that.) Check out this book “Encyclopedia of White Power", pg. 120 to read about Ken Goff.
books.google.com/books?id=nNWbbhUYv8oC&dq=encyclopedia+of+white+power&printsec=frontcover&source=web&ots=qdxOsHsi_W&sig=bY35JtMBRfrXwuaTCkcR3LcsXvU

It is being said the Brother Arnold attended that same Soldiers of the Cross Training Institute that they talk about in pages 120-122.
tripatlas.com/Arnold_Murray
I tried researching Soldiers of the Cross Training Institute, but didn’t find anything. So, then I read that it’s other name is Rocky Mountain Kingdom Gospel Institute. I found this:
truechristian.com/robb.html

So the President of the KKK went to the same institute as Brother Arnold supposedly. Ok….now look at this site.
christianbooksandthings.net/early_america.htm

The first book is written by Ken Goff and edited by “Pastor Rob” president of KKK. Look who else has books on this site. E. Raymond Capt. Anyone remember him from Brother Arnold’s guest appearances??? That site is a “knights” site as in knights of KKK. Why would they be selling E. Raymond Capt stuff if he didn’t agree with them?

Ok…I think you get the idea so how do we know that Brother Arnold really is associated with the Soldiers of the Cross. Because Shepherd’s Chapel is registered under Soldiers of the Cross in Gravette, AR.

sosweb.state.ar.us/corps/search_corps.php?DETAIL=275752&corp_type_id=&corp_name=Soldiers+of+The+Cross&agent_search=Arnold+B.+Murray&agent_city=Gravette&agent_state=AR&filing_number=&cmd=

So let’s take a look at those Kenites that he is always talking about. Where did they come from? Cain right? And where did Cain come from? Well, the Bible says Adam, but Brother Arnold says Satan. I suggest reading Genesis 3 and 4 again.
In Genesis 4:1-The man had relations with his wife, Eve, and she conceived and bore Cain, saying, “ I have produced a man with the help of the Lord.”
My question is, how could she and Adam have Cain and Abel (Cain being the son of Satan) if this verse is indicating that she and Adam had relations and then Cain was born? Furthermore, this takes place after the garden of eden. How does this make any sense? How could she get impregnated by Satan in the garden then later get impregnated by Adam but somehow magically have twins at the same time? Doesn’t make sense. Ok…so was Brother Arnold the first one to “see the light” regarding the “serpent seed”?

thefreeword.com/books/5558-L.pdf
en.believethesign.com/index.php?title=Serpent’s_Seed
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_M._Branham
biblebelievers.org.au/masons.htm

No. It was taught by a man named William M. Branham. A false prophet who claimed to be the 7th angel. Brother Arnold takes this serpent seed doctrine to a new level introducing the Kenites.
israelect.com/reference/WillieMartin/Racial_Segregation.htm
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenite

I’m sure we all remember. Kenites are the son of Cain who is the son of Satan. So who are the Kenites? Forget for a second that Cain is the “son of Satan”. Historical data indicates that these Kenites eventually assimulated into the tribes of Israel. Ok. So what does that mean?

Read this….

carm.org/religious-movements/shepherds-chapel/serpent-seed-and-kenites
oraclesofgod.org/shepherds_chapel_document.htm

Specifically read part 4 of the second link….about our “dear brother Judah”……Kenites are Jews???

 

[JAGCath28]

And the next big one for me is his prophecy. You won’t hear this talked about, but he claimed that the Antichrist was going to be here in 1981 and that Armageddon was going to come in 1985.

oraclesofgod.org/1980/1980.htm
religioustolerance.org/end_wrl2.htm
letusreason.org/Poptea4.htm

Are just a few sites that talk about this prophecy.

Anyway, this is what I found, and I thought I would share it. Most of these sources are anti-catholic. That’s fine. The way I look at it, we have apologetics helping set the record straight when people claim the Catholic church teaches this or the Catholic church teaches that. Almost every source I found for Shepherd’s Chapel says that any time they have asked the church directly, they have been turned away or ignored. No one is trying to refute these facts. The “followers” don’t refute it. They just tell you they are lies and begin blasting you for spreading lies. But no one can give any evidence to refute this. I have studied with this man so what I have found has a huge impact on how I feel about his beliefs and teachings.

When I started this thread, I had no idea that I would actually research it like I did or even find what I did. I was mostly just blowing off steam because of my dad’s anti-catholic sentiments and his need to cling to this Shepherd’s Chapel church when everyone else he knows has walked away.

 

[Thesian_Paschal]

I am a catholic theology student and have recently begun my own study of the unique teachings and doctrine of The Shepherd’s Chapel. I agree that there are several theological errors he proclaims during the broadcast and a lot of what he says is entertaining fiction .His views on baptism and marriage mirror those of some of the protestant reformers. Pastor Murray states that Baptism is “just a prop” and is NOT necessary for salvation. When asked the question, “Is it a sin to for a man to divorce his wife and marry another?” Murray states that it’s ok to divorce her and marry again in the case of adultery. He further adds that “HE” believes God will condone the new sexual union and “unconditionally” forgive the man who remarries and has relations with his new wife. These views are obviously contrary to Catholic Truth and could potentially be more insidious, to the unknowing, than most of what he teaches.
I did catch a broadcast on 03-11-09 where he expounded on his calculations for the age of the earth. He cited earth to be 13,000yrs old…6000yrs (for recorded history) plus 1 week (Since 1000 years is but a day to God (literally), 1 week becomes 7 times 1,000 yrs.
Murrays’s “The Two (2) Adams of Antiquity Theory” was also touched upon in the same above broadcast. Could anyone explain that in more detail?

 

[look3467]

Frankly, for one who has been looking for answers need not look at Shepperd Chapel.
It was a step in my journey to know what it was about, but then, I left it where I found it.

The Holy Spirit guides us if our hearts are truly seeking deeper truths.

What we all have now is sufficient, but there are those who desire deeper insights into Gods word.

Once we are established, grounded in our beliefs, then we can venture out without fear to explore more of Gods word without losing our foundation.

Blessings>>>AJ

 

[jargon631]

i post on another board called factnet…there is an ongoing, rancorous debate between the shepchaps and those who hold them in contempt…i dont think there is much to be learned because it has deteriorated into a spitefest…fd

 

[Monkey1976]

If one ever finds themselves debating with a follower of the Shepherd’s Chapel, ask them this: How did the Kenites survive the Flood?

 

[Thesian_Paschal]

Pastor Murray’s explanation as to what happened to the Kennites after the flood goes as follows. He claims that the Nephilim (the hybrid race between the sons of the gods and the daughters of Adam in Genesis) were one of many races on the planet at that time along with man (the pure race descended from Adam). Murray states that Noah loaded this hybrid creature race on to the ark along with the animals. (Genesis 6: 19 “Of all other living creatures you shall bring two into the ark…”). Murray also will cite Genesis 6: 4 in defense of his theory that these hybrids are here today behind the scenes in society in the form of “Kennites”. His exegesis of Genesis is definitely a result of his unique “Christian Identity” background. ……Arnold Murray’s heretical theology should be exposed!

 

[yellowbird]

Pastor Murray’s explanation as to what happened to the Kennites after the flood goes as follows. He claims that the Nephilim (the hybrid race between the sons of the gods and the daughters of Adam in Genesis) were one of many races on the planet at that time along with man (the pure race descended from Adam). Murray states that Noah loaded this hybrid creature race on to the ark along with the animals. (Genesis 6: 19 “Of all other living creatures you shall bring two into the ark…”). Murray also will cite Genesis 6: 4 in defense of his theory that these hybrids are here today behind the scenes in society in the form of “Kennites”. His exegesis of Genesis is definitely a result of his unique “Christian Identity” background. ……Arnold Murray’s heretical theology should be exposed!

His followers have told me on another on-line forum that one can identify by a Kennite by his height. Apparently they are very tall people? Lucky for me, I’m short.

And yes, they also claimed there were lots of people on the ark besides Noah & his family. THAT to me was the wackiest thing.

On that particular forum, poster after poster would literally blast me for being Catholic and “following men” yet they all followed “Dr.” Murray. What hypocrites.

When I, and another Catholic poster insisted that the early Christians believed that the Eurcharist was the actual body and blood of Christ and we posted quotes from the Early Church fathers they banned us both. Now they have a new “forum rule” that denominations are NOT to be mentioned… they make exceptions for threads about the evils of the Catholic Church.

Oh, and one other thing - they are sooooooo rude and degrading if you don’t agree with them. I’ve heard that “Pastor” Murray is the same way.

I feel so sorry for your Dad if he has been duped by this guy.

 

[JB_White]

Almost every source I found for Shepherd’s Chapel says that any time they have asked the church directly, they have been turned away or ignored. No one is trying to refute these facts. The “followers” don’t refute it. They just tell you they are lies and begin blasting you for spreading lies. But no one can give any evidence to refute this.

The followers cant refute it. His predictions printed in the Shepherds Bible he published plain as day.

Goff and Gillaspie took their doctrines from Mormon doctrines. Is why their group of churches was called Church of Jesus Christ and where they got the belief the Judah tribe settled North America. They were heavily involved too with masons and spoke at masonic temples often. Thats where the obsession with pyramidology comes into play. Pastors Lovell and Gillaspie were probably masons themselves. Thats important only because AM followers have been taught to fear masons and they shun Mormons.

These dudes werent small time preachers and teachers. It was huge, man. They were the subjects of some of the biggest names in journalism for years -associated to the K.K.K., paramilitary militias, Liberty Lobby, Christian Defense League, California Rangers, Minutemen, Christian Nationalists, John Birch Society and more. Ken Goff was right hand man to Gerald L.K. Smith and close associate to Richard Bultler from Aryan Nations. Gillaspie was just as bad. No beloved teacher of Gods word there because he was an ordained Soldiers of the Cross minister. Dr. Lovell was put off the air in Texas for attacks on Jews and Catholics -and on that day a politician.

For the poster who asked about E. Raymond Capt. He’s a pyramidologist and his daddy was San Jacinto Capt --Klan organizer and associate to Bertrand Comparet.
JB

 

[JAGCath28]

The followers cant refute it. His predictions printed in the Shepherds Bible he published plain as day.

Goff and Gillaspie took their doctrines from Mormon doctrines. Is why their group of churches was called Church of Jesus Christ and where they got the belief the Judah tribe settled North America. They were heavily involved too with masons and spoke at masonic temples often. Thats where the obsession with pyramidology comes into play. Pastors Lovell and Gillaspie were probably masons themselves. Thats important only because AM followers have been taught to fear masons and they shun Mormons.

These dudes werent small time preachers and teachers. It was huge, man. They were the subjects of some of the biggest names in journalism for years -associated to the K.K.K., paramilitary militias, Liberty Lobby, Christian Defense League, California Rangers, Minutemen, Christian Nationalists, John Birch Society and more. Ken Goff was right hand man to Gerald L.K. Smith and close associate to Richard Bultler from Aryan Nations. Gillaspie was just as bad. No beloved teacher of Gods word there because he was an ordained Soldiers of the Cross minister. Dr. Lovell was put off the air in Texas for attacks on Jews and Catholics -and on that day a politician.

For the poster who asked about E. Raymond Capt. He’s a pyramidologist and his daddy was San Jacinto Capt --Klan organizer and associate to Bertrand Comparet.
JB

I opened up the discussion with my Dad, but it was closed almost immediately. All of my sources were from the internet, and according to him, “nothing is true on the internet.” I would tend to believe him in the sense that you can’t take everything at face value, which is why I did a TON of research before I sent him my info. But…he refused to look at it.

His main defense for AM was that at the Passover and Fall Fellowship gatherings, we never saw them bar anyone from coming so how could he possibly be associated with those groups. My husband seems to think that it is a front to try to convince people that they aren’t bad by preaching what they preach because the face of the organization “isn’t racist”. I don’t know. That is one thing I can’t answer…why all the fluff about loving everyone, etc etc…if you are actually involved with those guys.

If you go to the Arkansas state department website, and look up businesses, Shepherd’s Chapel is listed as the “other name” for Soldiers of the Cross. Soldiers of the Cross is the primary tax-exempt busines but is going by Shepherd’s Chapel. AM is the point of contact. It’s all too coincendental that he just so happens to go by Soldiers of the Cross…the same soldiers of the cross that his “dear beloved teacher” Gillaspie was a part of…

 

[JAGCath28]

Thats important only because AM followers have been taught to fear masons and they shun Mormons.

My dad is a mason…and I’ll be honest. I never heard AM talk about Masons or Mormons.

He mostly harped on traditions of men which is why my dad and I fight about the Catholic Church so much. It was an interesting discussion because instead of answering my questions regarding AM, he tried to turn the discussion to how unbiblical the Catholic Church is. I showed him many verses explaining why I believe what I believe regarding the Eucharist and Confession. He never responded.

He continues to claim that the Catholic Church is full of nothing, but traditions of men. I tried to explain that these traditions go back to the apostles and what better “men” to follow than the men who were with Jesus? And brought up the fact that his man, AM, started traditions…do those count?

Needless to say, we can’t talk “religion” anymore because it becomes incredibly heated. He has no facts to base his points on and only talks in circles. It is quite frustrating because at least if he had some facts (other than what AM says) then I see us having a discussion.

 

[look3467]

Pastor Murry may enlighten you on some interesting things, but I would not hold everything he says as gospel.
I would prefer to do my own research, for the bible says that the Holy Spirit is my teacher.

If we have an honest and sincere desire to seek God out in all His mysteries, He is kind enough to reveal some of them to us.

But remember, that He takes a reading of our hearts and reveals accordingly.

Blessings, AJ

 

[JB_White]

why all the fluff about loving everyone, etc etc…if you are actually involved with those guys.

Money. AMs a multimillionaire compliments of followers for forty years. Goff & Gillaspie had lots of rich supporters too. Hows teaching people are offspring of the serpent loving everyone? In the 80s he lost support of Madge Britton & some of the klanners saying ‘Kenite’ for Jews but had to for networks & a television audience. Coming right out saying jews are a serpent seedline would have gotten him a short tv career. But I deal with facts. AM was ordained by these racists when they were the most outspoken anti-semite segregationists of their day in the US. Then he names his org after their org and his church after their churches. He names his church & org the same thing as the other S.O.T.C. protege Thomas Robb the current leader of K.K.K. who was assistant pastor to Gillaspie, a graduate of Soldiers of the Cross & set up the Churches of Jesus Christ group with Goff in the 60s and today has a Church of Jesus Christ & S.O.T.C. Campground in the same Ark. county with AM.

 

[JB_White]

Needless to say, we can’t talk “religion” anymore because it becomes incredibly heated. He has no facts to base his points on and only talks in circles. It is quite frustrating because at least if he had some facts (other than what AM says) then I see us having a discussion.

For what its worth… I’d stick with facts with your dad and first address the origins of his choice of a church. By you promoting your church at this stage youll close his ears more I think. A double hurdle. Some of the docs I have came from a friend investigating the SC becuz a parent got involved with it. They were eventually convinced by all the evidence something was very wrong so it can happen. imho the case to make needs to be airtight and unemotional. The first thing followers learn is love ones might not have eyes to see & ears to hear. Its hard to convince someone otherwise whos convinced their eyes have been opened for the first time to what the bible really means. Thats prolly not news to you though. Good luck with your dad.
JB

 

[JAGCath28]

The first thing followers learn is love ones might not have eyes to see & ears to hear. Its hard to convince someone otherwise whos convinced their eyes have been opened for the first time to what the bible really means. Thats prolly not news to you though. Good luck with your dad.
JB

Yes, I’ve already been accused of being the daughter who will bring him before the Anti-Christ. I can only laugh at that because it is so silly.

 

[system]

Where do all of you get off criticizing this ministry - it’s not him who professes his teaching it’s directly from the King James version 1611 edition.

Before you insert you size 15 shoe in your mouth - prove what he’s saying wrong?

When does the anti Christ return? Does he have any human children? Does he come with war or in peace?

I don’t want your thoughts – give me some of that old time religion.