Shocking admissions by catholic theologian on the resurection and virgin birth

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Civitate_Dei

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lately i have been having doubts and unfortunately when I have doubts i end up trawling the internet and look up stuff which gives me more doubts especially with all the anti-christian stuff on the internet.

I came across this article by catholic theologian Reymond Brown simpletoremember.com/vitals/Christian_Credibility.htm in which he says there are 2 resurrection appearance stories because it isn’t a historical narrative. He suggest the pope does not believe in it Then he says the virgin birth was invented. I read this stuff then I get really depressed and do not know what to believe.
 
Civitate_Dei said:
lately i have been having doubts and unfortunately when I have doubts i end up trawling the internet and look up stuff which gives me more doubts especially with all the anti-christian stuff on the internet.
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So stop – really. Why do you want to deliberately look for stuff to fuel your doubts? Why not look for solid Catholic teaching instead?
 
The man is not speaking from Catholic Dogma or tradition. He is, frankly. a heretic; someone who knows the truth of the Church and knowingly chooses to reject it. Pray for him, but pay him no mind.
 
Raymond Brown was a very bright biblical scholar, but he says some things that --while not outright heretical – can often lead the casual observer to infer some questionable ideas. This is one of those things.

As Agnes Therese said, if you are experiencing doubts, don’t go surfing the internet for random articles that are probably only snippets of complex academic works that are taken out of context. Read the Catechism instead. 👍
 
Once you find the truth the best way to cultivate it is with devotion to Mary. No human knows Jesus like Mary & She is more than willing to help you but you need to call on her.
 
Civitate_Dei said:
lately i have been having doubts and unfortunately when I have doubts i end up trawling the internet and look up stuff which gives me more doubts especially with all the anti-christian stuff on the internet.

I came across this article by catholic theologian Reymond Brown simpletoremember.com/vitals/Christian_Credibility.htm in which he says there are 2 resurrection appearance stories because it isn’t a historical narrative. He suggest the pope does not believe in it Then he says the virgin birth was invented. I read this stuff then I get really depressed and do not know what to believe.
Click to expand...
It is Catholic dogma that scripture contains no error, and it is mortal sin to proclaim that it does contain error. Error would be something that would lead you astray from God, from his Christ, from eternal life with Him.
Read the Bible as if listening to a real person telling you things, and that person is fully truthful in trusting God and in working to lead you to Life in His Name. A real person may not say all the details the same way someone else would or may not give all the details, but they never are wrong in their goal, their intent.

Virgin birth, invented? All the disciples spent many years in Mary’s presence; think about it. She doubtless answered all their questions about Jesus and about herself. Luke, who wrote most eloquently about her, we know to have been with the disciples, and much time with Paul. I firmly believe he sat down with her and asked her about this. He quotes her talks with Gabriel and with her cousin Elizabeth, and he describes what she was thinking or feeling. While a writer can invent thoughts and feelings, no writer can invent thoughts of Faith where there is no faith existing in the writer, and no writer with Faith will make up a teaching. The Apostles and all Christians since then know that the virgin birth is true, and it did happen, and Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit and born of the Virgin whose name is Mary.

John Martin
 
There’s 7 billion people in the world. If you look around enough, you’re going to find an ‘expert’ that believes such and such.
 
“We find the genealogy of Jesus provided by the Gospels confusing. Who was Jesus’ paternal grandfather? (We notice that Matthew says that his grandfather was Jacob, but Luke says it was Heli). Also, we notice that Matthew declares that Jesus was separated from King David by only twenty-eight generations, but Luke’s list shows a forty-three generation separation. What does this contradiction mean?”

“The genealogical line linking Jesus and King David seems to pass through Jesus’ father. But since Jesus was the product of a virgin conception, then he does not share in his father’s Davidic ancestry. How is Jesus a descendent of David?”

(Quotes taken from the article)

I’d like to point out that this point, at least, was addressed in a thread somewhere in this forum. I know it’s here somewhere because I read it, and I hope someone can find it because I can’t. There’s also another link. It made reference to an explanation by an early Church Father about this apparent discrepancy.

I also realize how unhelpful “here somewhere” is.

I found one of it here
 
Civitate_Dei said:
lately i have been having doubts and unfortunately when I have doubts i end up trawling the internet and look up stuff which gives me more doubts especially with all the anti-christian stuff on the internet.

I came across this article by catholic theologian Reymond Brown simpletoremember.com/vitals/Christian_Credibility.htm in which he says there are 2 resurrection appearance stories because it isn’t a historical narrative. He suggest the pope does not believe in it Then he says the virgin birth was invented. I read this stuff then I get really depressed and do not know what to believe.
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There’s no big deal here and nothing new at all for the antichristians to have brought up; the cyncisim is flagrantly apparent, for example Pope Paul VI’s comment in no way suggests any doubt on his part of the historical truth of the ressurection, he says the history of the world turned on that event; and that, his comment, is historically true and historically provable. Nothing to get depressed about, let them have the depression, it belongs to them.
 
agnes_therese said:
So stop – really. Why do you want to deliberately look for stuff to fuel your doubts? Why not look for solid Catholic teaching instead?
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http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Bingo.png

Yet I know what the OP is going through. Sometimes you DON’T go looking for arguments against the Church but for insights. And then run across a lettered Catholic Theologian speaking very authoritatively - yet giving answers that would rate a red check mark from Sister in a first grade Catechism class. 🤷

http://sr.photos3.fotosearch.com/bt...om/comp/CSP/CSP992/praying-nun_~k12964459.jpg
 
Civitate_Dei said:
lately i have been having doubts and unfortunately when I have doubts i end up trawling the internet and look up stuff which gives me more doubts especially with all the anti-christian stuff on the internet.

I came across this article by catholic theologian Reymond Brown simpletoremember.com/vitals/Christian_Credibility.htm in which he says there are 2 resurrection appearance stories because it isn’t a historical narrative. He suggest the pope does not believe in it Then he says the virgin birth was invented. I read this stuff then I get really depressed and do not know what to believe.
Click to expand...
Raymond Brown isn’t the best source for faithful Catholic teaching. Read better stuff, like Pope Benedict XVI.
 
I do not know or read this “theologian”, but would the apostles and their followers have willingly died, been tortured, etc… for something they KNEW was not real??? No, they saw Him after His Resurrection, felt His hands, and spoke to Him, otherwise they surely wouldn’t have been willing to die for Him, trusting that they would be with Him after death! As for the Virgin Birth, this was spoken of hundreds of years before His birth, and Luke certainly did interview the Blessed Virgin – too much detail in the Scriptures that only she would have been able to tell to him! Also, in several of her appearances (whether you believe in them or not) she told the individual visionaries that she was indeed a Virgin at His birth, and remained Virgin until her death. As to the “brothers” of Jesus, I studied Hebrew (old form in which the Old Testament was written) and the word translated as “brothers” in English means “kinsman” – a close relative, usually a cousin, nephew, etc… The same word is used for “cousin”, “kinsman” and the root comes from “relative, close”. About the Pope not believing in either of these, he most certainly does! Write to the Vatican and ask, you’ll get an answer, though it may take a month or more to receive the response.

I agree, stop going through the Internet for answers (except for Catholic Answers), speak to your priest about your doubts, and read the Scriptures and the Catechism! That’s where you’ll find your honest answers. Going frequently to Mass will also help.

If you suffer from depression (a true illness), perhaps a doctor can also help. If it is just doubts and resulting depression regarding your faith, see the paragraph just above!

God bless you and help you to find peace and faith!

judynurse
 
John_Martin said:
It is Catholic dogma that scripture contains no error, and it is mortal sin to proclaim that it does contain error. Error would be something that would lead you astray from God, from his Christ, from eternal life with Him.
Read the Bible as if listening to a real person telling you things, and that person is fully truthful in trusting God and in working to lead you to Life in His Name. A real person may not say all the details the same way someone else would or may not give all the details, but they never are wrong in their goal, their intent.

Virgin birth, invented? All the disciples spent many years in Mary’s presence; think about it. She doubtless answered all their questions about Jesus and about herself. Luke, who wrote most eloquently about her, we know to have been with the disciples, and much time with Paul. I firmly believe he sat down with her and asked her about this. He quotes her talks with Gabriel and with her cousin Elizabeth, and he describes what she was thinking or feeling. While a writer can invent thoughts and feelings, no writer can invent thoughts of Faith where there is no faith existing in the writer, and no writer with Faith will make up a teaching. The Apostles and all Christians since then know that the virgin birth is true, and it did happen, and Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit and born of the Virgin whose name is Mary.

John Martin
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John, what the Church actually teaches is that the Scriptures are without error with regard to matters of salvation. The things God wanted in the Scriptures for the sake of our salvation are without error. The church is silent on matters of historical or scientific accuracy.

That scripture is inerrant on matters of salvation is clearly stated in Dei Verbum, the Dogmatic Constitution on Divine Revelation.

There are many historically and scientifically accurate facts in the Bible but that isn’t its point. The point of scripture is salvation, not history or science, and the Church does not teach that the Bible is with or without error in matters of science or history. The Church only teaches that the Bible is without error in matters of salvation.

-Tim-
 
Civitate_Dei said:
. . . I read this stuff then I get really depressed and do not know what to believe.
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Perhaps this is the beginning of true faith.

You are easily swayed because you are not connecting with the Source of Truth - the Holy Spirit.

I would recommend prayer and participation in the mass; stick with it in spite of these negative influences that would cause you to fall into spiritual ruin.

In the end, as stated in John 6:67 So Jesus said to the twelve, “You do not want to go away also, do you?” 68 Simon Peter answered Him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have words of eternal life.
 
Civitate_Dei said:
lately i have been having doubts and unfortunately when I have doubts i end up trawling the internet and look up stuff which gives me more doubts especially with all the anti-christian stuff on the internet.

I came across this article by catholic theologian Reymond Brown simpletoremember.com/vitals/Christian_Credibility.htm in which he says there are 2 resurrection appearance stories because it isn’t a historical narrative. He suggest the pope does not believe in it Then he says the virgin birth was invented. I read this stuff then I get really depressed and do not know what to believe.
Click to expand...
Also, to clarify, this article was not written by Raymond Brown, it was written about Raymond Brown by Rabbi Lawrence Kelemen.

Raymond Brown’s writings are confusing enough to understand when you read them in context. Reading a selection of quotes out of context is not the best way to get at what he is saying. Brown denies some things about the historicity of certain portions of the New Testament. But – as far as I know – I have never seen him flatly deny the Resurrection (or the priesthood or the Virgin birth or any of the other things he speaks about in similar ways).

I would not expect to find in this article an accurate presentation of Catholic teaching nor even of Brown’s writing.
 
TimothyH said:
John, what the Church actually teaches is that the Scriptures are without error with regard to matters of salvation. The things God wanted in the Scriptures for the sake of our salvation are without error. The church is silent on matters of historical or scientific accuracy.

That scripture is inerrant on matters of salvation is clearly stated in Dei Verbum, the Dogmatic Constitution on Divine Revelation.

There are many historically and scientifically accurate facts in the Bible but that isn’t its point. The point of scripture is salvation, not history or science, and the Church does not teach that the Bible is with or without error in matters of science or history. The Church only teaches that the Bible is without error in matters of salvation.

-Tim-
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Tim,
I believe that is what I said: "Error would be something that would lead you astray from God, from his Christ, from eternal life with Him. "
That is the same as saying what you wrote: “the Bible is without error in matters of salvation.”
??? so I don’t understand what you intend to clarify ???

John Martin
 
Civitate_Dei said:
lately i have been having doubts and unfortunately when I have doubts i end up trawling the internet and look up stuff which gives me more doubts especially with all the anti-christian stuff on the internet.

I came across this article by catholic theologian Reymond Brown simpletoremember.com/vitals/Christian_Credibility.htm in which he says there are 2 resurrection appearance stories because it isn’t a historical narrative. He suggest the pope does not believe in it Then he says the virgin birth was invented. I read this stuff then I get really depressed and do not know what to believe.
Click to expand...
Keep searching, the path to truth is a hard and rocky road, and do not let anyone tell you that you are wrong for seeking. And do not listen to those that would stop you from seeking truth in the name of heresy, they are the ones who live not in faith and truth but fear and sickness.

Keep reading and asking questions thats the only way for truth to be found. And for you to find real and lasting faith. 👍
 
agnes_therese said:
So stop – really. Why do you want to deliberately look for stuff to fuel your doubts? Why not look for solid Catholic teaching instead?
Click to expand...
Good advice, right there.

If you’re going to look up something online, I suggest reputable sites like Catholic Answers or EWTN. A Catechism is also a handy and trustworthy thing to have access to. That can also be found online.
To me, having doubts and looking up things that you know will add to the doubt is like getting sick from eating bad food and returning for seconds. Definitely not healthy behavior.

Take Care and God Bless,
HillbillyHermit 👋
 
Civitate_Dei said:
lately i have been having doubts and unfortunately when I have doubts i end up trawling the internet and look up stuff which gives me more doubts especially with all the anti-christian stuff on the internet.
Click to expand...
“Feed your fears and your faith will starve. Feed your faith, and your fears will [starve].”
~Max Lucado
 
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