Shocking things everyone should know about Luther

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Ginger2 said:
I realize this sampling of Catholic anti-semitism…
240
Origen of Alexandria writes that the Jews “have committed the most abominable of crimes” in conspiring against Christ, and for that reason “the Jewish nation was driven from its country, and another people was called by God to the blessed election”

414
St. Cyril of Alexandria expels Jews from his city
937
Pope Leo VII encourages his newly appointed archbishop of Mainz to expel all Jews who refuse to be baptized
1010-1020
In Rouen, Orléans, Limoges, Mainz, and probably also in Rome, Jews are converted by force, massacred, or expelled
1096
Massacres of Jews takes place in the First Crusade, destroying entire Jewish communities in Mainz, Speyer, Worms, Cologne and other cities. The Jewish chronicler reports: “The enemies stripped them naked and dragged them off, granting quarter to none, save those few who accepted baptism. The number of the slain was eight hundred in these two days.” The chronicler Guibert de Nogent reports that the Rouen Crusaders said: “We desire to go and fight God’s enemies in the East; but we have before our eyes certain Jews, a race more inimical to God than any other”
1267
The Synod of Breslau decrees compulsory ghettos for Jews
1279
The Synod of Ofen decrees that Christians cannot sell or rent real estate to Jews
1345
King John authorizes his subjects in Liegnitz and Breslau to destroy the Jewish cemeteries in order to use the tombstones to repair the city walls
1456
Pope Callistus III bans all social communication between Christians and Jews
1475
The entire Jewish community in Trent, northern Italy, is put to death on the allegation that it had murdered a boy for religious purposes
1492
After forcing many Jews to be baptized and then referring to them as Marranos (swine), and after an Inquisition in which some 700 Marranos were burnt at the stake for showing signs of “Jewish” taint, Spain expels all Jews from the country
1553
Cardinal Carafa instigates a public burning of copies of the Talmud and other Jewish religious works in a square in Rome
1555-1559
Pope Paul IV restricts Jews to ghettos and decrees that they are to wear distinctive headgear
1566-1572
Pope St. Pius V expels Jews from the Papal States, allowing some to remain in Rome’s ghettos and in Ancona for commercial reasons
1592-1605
Pope Clement VIII includes a ban on all Jewish books in the expanded Index of Forbidden Books
1826
Pope Leo XII decrees that Jews are to be confined to ghettos and their property is to be confiscated

…pales in comparison to Luther’s remark:

“. …Did I not tell you earlier that a Jew is such a noble, precious jewel that God and all the angels dance when he farts?”

People please, can we not attack each other for past atrocities, but try to live a better faith then those who have gone before us?
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The basis for my post was this gem of a comment from you.

Shall I print more of what he said and did?
 
Contarini said:
In the context of Romans 3, Paul (not Luther) is clearly denying that “works of the law” save us.

Luther understood “works of the law” to be good works in general, it’s true. But he “denied” them not in the sense of saying they were valueless, but of claiming that they do not contribute to our relationship with God. Rather, they follow from that relationship.

Edwin
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👍 Got it!
 
Contarini said:
In the context of Romans 3, Paul (not Luther) is clearly denying that “works of the law” save us.

Luther understood “works of the law” to be good works in general, it’s true. But he “denied” them not in the sense of saying they were valueless, but of claiming that they do not contribute to our relationship with God. Rather, they follow from that relationship.

Edwin
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In the context of Romans 3, Paul (not Luther) is clearly denying that “works of the law” save us.​

Clearly Mathew 25 tells us failure to do the law will send You to Hell
 
kalt said:
That isn’t the version that Jesus used or that the Catholic Church used.
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But Pope Damasus I had him write it, and from there it became the official Latin text of the RCC. So how can you say i wasn’t the one used by them?
 
rcscwc said:
Verily, in Goa, India, catholics did:
  1. set fire to Hindu temples and schools
  2. burn houses
  3. confiscate all Hindu religious writings
    4)forbid Hindu priests from teaching
    5)make the Hindus slaves of catholics
And much, much more.

Luther said only what catholics were already doing. Maybe he was inspired by these acts of kindness of catholics.
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I suppose Orissa means nothing to you, or that more than 50 people (mostly Catholics) were killed and/or raped. And how about the thousands more (Catholics) who were hiding from **Hindu Fanatics **while they destroyed schools, churches, orphanages and homes.
 
SemperReformada said:
I always wonder why some catholics are quick to point out the anti-semitism of Luther but apparently overlook the anti-semitism of those in their own fold.
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I would like to see where your proof came from for your incorrect assumption.
 
reteeks21 said:
But Pope Damasus I had him write it, and from there it became the official Latin text of the RCC. So how can you say i wasn’t the one used by them?
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If you remove canon from the Bible, it’s not the same Bible.

The Ot is what Jesus used, not the NT. Parts of the OT were removed from the canon, so it is not the same OT used by Jesus and his followers and it’s not the same Bible used by the Catholic Church to this day.

You can’t say that Luther didn’t change the Bible, when he pulled it apart and decanonized the parts that were inconvenient to his own personal beliefs.

Or are you saying that the CC changed the canon?
 
kalt said:
If you remove canon from the Bible, it’s not the same Bible.

The Ot is what Jesus used, not the NT. Parts of the OT were removed from the canon Bible, so it is not the same OT used by Jesus and his followers and the Catholic Church to this day.

Are you saying that the CC changed the canon?
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If you remove canon from the Bible, it’s not the same Bible.​

In many respects, the Oral Torah is more important than the Written Torah
aish.com/literacy/concepts/The_Oral_Tradition.asp
 
kalt said:
If you remove canon from the Bible, it’s not the same Bible.

The Ot is what Jesus used, not the NT. Parts of the OT were removed from the canon, so it is not the same OT used by Jesus and his followers and it’s not the same Bible used by the Catholic Church to this day.

You can’t say that Luther didn’t change the Bible, when he pulled it apart and decanonized the parts that were inconvenient to his own personal beliefs.

***Or are you saying that the CC changed the canon?/***QUOTE]

What? I have no idea what you are talking about. I was speaking to the fact that someone said that Jerome’s vulgate wasn’t used by the RCC, but considering that the pope asked him to do it, and that they accepted it as their Latin text, it doesn’t make sense to say that they don’t use it.
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reteeks21 said:
kalt;4918642:
If you remove canon from the Bible, it’s not the same Bible.

The Ot is what Jesus used, not the NT. Parts of the OT were removed from the canon, so it is not the same OT used by Jesus and his followers and it’s not the same Bible used by the Catholic Church to this day.

You can’t say that Luther didn’t change the Bible, when he pulled it apart and decanonized the parts that were inconvenient to his own personal beliefs.

Or are you saying that the CC changed the canon?/
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QUOTE]

What? I have no idea what you are talking about. I was speaking to the fact that someone said that Jerome’s vulgate wasn’t used by the RCC, but considering that the pope asked him to do it, and that they accepted it as their Latin text, it doesn’t make sense to say that they don’t use it.

Septuagint - What is It?
Septuagint (sometimes abbreviated LXX) is the name given to the Greek translation of the Jewish Scriptures. The Septuagint has its origin in Alexandria, Egypt and was translated between 300-200 BC. Widely used among Hellenistic Jews, this Greek translation was produced because many Jews spread throughout the empire were beginning to lose their Hebrew language
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kalt said:
Then you agree that the Bible was changed. The Catholic Church has constantly held those books and portions of books that Luther removed from the canon, as inspired. …
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No. The Church never considered them inspired until Trent.
I choose to use the version that Jesus accepted.
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No, you don’t. You hold the deuteros equal to inspired Scriptures?

Ginger
 
Ginger2 said:
No. The Church never considered them inspired until Trent.

No, you don’t. You hold the deuteros equal to inspired Scriptures?

Ginger
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one thing you can never find—anywhere in the Protestant Old Testament, from front to back, from Genesis to Malachi—is someone being tortured and refusing to accept release for the sake of a better resurrection.(Heb. 11:35)

If you want to find that, you have to look in the Catholic Old Testament—in the deuterocanonical books Martin Luther cut out of his Bible. The story is found in 2 Maccabees 7, where we read that during the Maccabean persecution

Samaritan copies of the Pentateuch in the readings of many sentences. In about two thousand instances in which the Samaritan and the Jewish texts differ, the LXX agrees with the former. The New Testament also, when quoting from the Old Testament, agrees as a rule with the Samaritan text, where that differs from the Jewish. Thus Ex. 12:40 in the Samaritan reads, “Now the sojourning of the children of Israel and of their fathers which they had dwelt in the land of Canaan and in Egypt was four hundred and thirty years” (comp. Gal. 3: 17). It may be noted that the LXX has the same reading of this text.
 
Ginger2 said:
No. The Church never considered them inspired until Trent.

No, you don’t. You hold the deuteros equal to inspired Scriptures?

Ginger
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One thing you can never find anywhere in the Protestant Old Testament,

from front to back, from Genesis to Malachi
is someone being tortured and refusing to accept release for the sake of a better resurrection.(Heb. 11:35)

If you want to find that, you have to look in the Catholic Old Testament — in the deuterocanonical books Martin Luther cut out of his Bible. The story is found in 2 Maccabees 7
Hey Mikey find a life yet?
 
Good grief. I feel as though family members are fighting amongst themselves. Sometimes a teenager may be justified in running away from home. But what if the family recognizes the teen’s position and corrects the fault? What if the family wants the child to come home?

We have more in common than differences. There are actual threats to our faith from non-Christian groups. Christ established one church; Luther was right to raise his issues; five hundred years is long enough to protest; it’s time to come home.
 
Agreed, Ockham. My readings on Luther said that he really didn’t want to leave the Catholic Church. It was stubborness on his side and the Pope’s stubbornness that led to the split. Some say that if John Paul II were Pope back then, he would have handled everything better, and there never would have been a split.

Agreed…come home. The Catholic Church needs good, faithful Protestants that love Christ!
 
bobregan said:
Ginger2,

If Protestants and Catholics agree that SF is a false doctrine, then a HUGE hurdle has been overcome!! This makes us much closer to unity, don’t you agree?

What’s left then, that you think divides us?
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Please note that is not what was said! What was said is, that both RCs and most confessional “protestants” agree that SF as the RC church seems to see it is false, i.e. that SF means “Because we’re saved by faith, we don’t have to do anything and can just sit on our behinds, not caring at all about making a difference, nor does it matter how we live our lives”.

THAT’S false doctrine. Works are indeed “neccessary”, but the order of things is VERY, VERY crucial to get right:

We are saved by faith, and our salvation is God’s work from start to finish (cf. Augustine). However; true faith, saving faith, results in good works, and it most certainly ALSO results in a change in how we live our lives.

If we can agree on this above definition, THEN we are in agreement. But I suspect that is not the case unfortunately 😦
 
still wating for our debate in one of the three languages! still waiting! I am verry eager so please dont let me wait long!
 
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