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CHESTERTONRULES
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How do you determine what preaching to listen to?I’m not quite sure what you are getting at.
Not all preaching of the gospel is the same.
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Not all preaching of the gospel is the same.
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Eternaly_Secure
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The true Gospel must tell a person they are a lost sinner on their way to hell, but that God in his mercy sent the Lord Jesus Christ to die for them and to shed his precious blood (without the blood theres no remission) so that if they repent and believe that the Lord Jesus Christ took their punishment and died for them personaly, they will be saved.
He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. John 3:36
That is the Gospel, although I could spend all day talking about the Gospel of course, that is a simple explanation.
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Ginger2
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Please post a link to a church’s formal doctrine stating unrepentant sinners are saved if at some point in theirs lives they accepted Christ…or did you just take hearsay as proof?
The above is a Catholic definition of OSAS. All Protestant churches I know of would agree one has to repent to be forgiven.
OSAS is a doctrine made up by Catholics due to a false interpretation of Protestant teaching.
The mistake Protestants made was to try and explain the misunderstanding rather then simply agreeing it is a false doctrine and saying we don’t believe it. Or maybe they did deny believing the false doctrine and Catholics, as they so often do, insisted we do believe it. In which case there was not much left to do but explain what OSAS would mean if we adhered to such a doctrine.
So,** there is no doctrine of OSAS among Protestants. We simply use that term to explain Catholics have misunderstood our teaching.**
So, this made-up doctrine is explained as thus:
OSAS means,
2Cr 4:3-4
But** if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:**…
John 10:27-28
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
The Protestant definition of OSAS refers to God’s OMNISCIENT nature. God already knows every single soul that will enter heaven and every single soul that is damned to hell. Those whom God calls to be His own cannot be taken from Him.
Jon 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him to life on the last day.
We, as mere humans, cannot look at certain people and know whether they will persevere to the end or not, but God does know!
That’s what once saved always saved means…it’s not a pass to sin.
Ginger
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Eternaly_Secure
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All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
It is a doctrine of the Bible.
It would be a very long post to state my case, so here is a link.
av1611.org/etern.html
How can you lose what a perfect God has given us.
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CHESTERTONRULES
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By rejecting his gift:
2 Chronicles 15:2 “If you search for him, he will let himself be found by you; but if you leave him, he will leave you”.
Hebrews 3:12-14 “Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; but exhort one another daily, while it is called today, lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we have become partakers of Christ** if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end.”**
1 Timothy 1:19 “Keeping faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and their faith has been shipwrecked”.
Hebrews 2:1 "Therefore we must pay greater attention to what we have heard, lest we drift away".
2 Timothy 2:12 “If we endure, we shall also reign with Him; If we deny Him, He also will deny us”.
2 Peter 2:20-21 “They were made free from the evil in the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. But if they return to evil things and those things control them, then it is worse for them than it was before. Yes, it would be better for them to have never known the right way than to know it and to turn away from the holy teaching that was given to them.”
Matthew 10:22 "And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved.
Matthew 24:13 "But he who endures to the end shall be saved.
Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord, shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father.”
John 15:4-6 “Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you, unless you abide in Me. I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me, and I in him, he bears much fruit; for apart from Me you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch, and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned”.
Hebrews 10:26-27 “For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.”
Hebrews 10:29 “How much worse punishment do you think will be deserved by those who have spurned the Son of God, profaned the blood of the covenant by which they were sanctified, and outraged the Spirit?”
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Contarini
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I have heard Baptist preachers say this many times.
Southern Baptists and many other evangelicals explicitly deny that a believer has to repent of serious sins after conversion in order to be forgiven. In fact, the Wesleyan belief that this is necessary is often derided as “works righteousness.” I’m astounded that you don’t know this.
No, it’s not. It is a doctrine against which I have been arguing all my life. I understand it and its various versions and ramifications quite well. It is not the mere straw man you are claiming, although you are right that Catholics generally don’t understand the Calvinist roots of the doctrine and often describe it in its most extreme, antinomian form.
Even Calvinists do not necessarily believe that a regenerate person will always repent of serious sin before death. It is possible even in the Calvinist view for a person to be forgiven even though they die before they get around to repenting, although if they had lived longer they would have repented. I’m not arguing that this is totally indefensible (clearly there’s some reason to argue that God looks at the trajectory of a person’s life rather than the snapshot taken at the point of death), but it is an argument that Calvinists in fact make.
Edwin
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Eternaly_Secure
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Some of the scriptures that people quote are not talking to people who are saved, but to those who have heard the truth and rejected it, this is what I mean about needing the Holy Spirit to understand scripture.
Many people call Jesus Christ Lord, but they are unregenerate and saying that you can lose your salvation means you need to work to keep it, but salvation is not works based. **For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: NOT OF WORKS, lest any man should boast." Ephesians 2:8-9 **
When a person is saved they are sealed by the Holy Spirit.
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CHESTERTONRULES
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CHESTERTONRULES
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Contarini
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Keeps you from sinning or ensures that your sin will have no consequences?
Edwin
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Holly3278
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Wow. He sounds remarkably like Hitler.
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Eternaly_Secure
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Eternaly_Secure
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Why are the wrong quotes with the wrong names?
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tqualey
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Hi, TertiumQuid,
I have read this post of yours and the link you provided. Here is the URL: christiantruth.com/canon.html Now I have a simple and straight forward question for you…and, it is not part of any ‘template’ because I really do not know the answer.
God bless
I have read this post of yours and the link you provided. Here is the URL: christiantruth.com/canon.html Now I have a simple and straight forward question for you…and, it is not part of any ‘template’ because I really do not know the answer.
There is no difference between Catholic and Protestant (at least the KJV) NT Books of the Bible. Luther worked long and hard to get the Epistle of St. James removed from the NT - and, since he was writing his own bible, he did just that. Today, St. James is in Protestant Bible. How did St. James get back in? Actually Luther attempted to make other changes and remove other NT authors, and this does not look like it lasted beyond his lifetime. So, if you would like to include that in your response, I would be most interested.
God bless
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CHESTERTONRULES
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Contarini
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Just to clarify things for Ginger and others, am I right that you are saying that all future sins are forgiven in advance?
Can you see that you are going back and forth between language describing what ought to happen (“doesn’t mean that we should sin. . . it should be far less frequently”) and language describing what will happen “hates sins. . . flesh fights. . . we will sin”). Is this deliberate?
I understand you to be saying the following
- Salvation (having believed in Christ and having been born again) guarantees that we will hate sin and thus will not want to sin; but
- Our sinful nature, which remains after we are born again, guarantees that in spite of our hatred of sin we will sometimes sin; yet
- None of our sins affect our salvation
I am sorry if this seems like overanalysis of your post. But it seems to me that there’s some ambiguity in the theological position you’re defending–an ambiguity that I’ve noticed many times before in talking to people from a fundamentalist Baptist point of view (or more broadly an evangelical OSAS position in general). And I’m trying to push you to clarify exactly what you mean.
In Christ,
Edwin
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Contarini
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Because ChestertonRules goofed up in post 605, and none of us corrected the mistake till now!
Thanks for pointing it out.
Edwin
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Eternaly_Secure
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You dont understand those scriptures, but I will say that I have not rejected his free gift and that is why he has recieved me.
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