Shocking video---Are these the feelings of the Majority of Orthodox?

[OrdinaryMelkite]

youtube.com/watch?v=7o7UGLTauHI

Do the majority of Eastern Orthodox (at least in Eastern Europe) believe exactly this? I doubt this.

I came across this on Youtube some days ago. Needless to say, I was shocked. Although as a Melkite Eastern Catholic I follow many Orthodox rituals and dogmas, I was shocked by the bluntness and lack of charity and “ecumenicism” of this.

This is Elder Arsenie Papacioc, Elder of the Romanian Orthodox Church, in 2005. He is now deceased.

I know how I personally would have tried to respond to this-------the bread thing, to ME is basically an issue of semantics, as even KALLISTOS WARE has pointed out-----that is one of the answers I would have given to others that Papacioc brought up.

What about the Catholics here? What do you think about this? How would you attemot toengage this?

(To the mods—just in case, this is NOT proselytizing from MY part. On the contrary, I totally disagree with this, as everybody knows me I’m a total uniate and Orthodx in communion with Holy Mother Church and a total member of it, as are ALL Eastern Catholics. Simply wanted discussion on this. Not trying to start a ruckus here. If this also on the wrong fiorum, please feel free to move to the appropriate forum).

 

[OrdinaryMelkite]

youtube.com/watch?v=7o7UGLTauHI

Do the majority of Eastern Orthodox (at least in Eastern Europe) believe exactly this? I doubt this.

I came across this on Youtube some days ago. Needless to say, I was shocked. Although as a Melkite Eastern Catholic I follow many Orthodox rituals and dogmas, I was shocked by the bluntness and lack of charity and “ecumenicism” of this.

This is Elder Arsenie Papacioc, Elder of the Romanian Orthodox Church, in 2005. He is now deceased.

I know how I personally would have tried to respond to this-------the bread thing, to ME is basically an issue of semantics, as even KALLISTOS WARE has pointed out-----that is one of the answers I would have given to others that Papacioc brought up.

What about the Catholics here? What do you think about this? How would you attemot toengage this?

(To the mods—just in case, this is NOT proselytizing from MY part. On the contrary, I totally disagree with this, as everybody knows me I’m a total uniate and Orthodx in communion with Holy Mother Church and a total member of it, as are ALL Eastern Catholics. Simply wanted discussion on this. Not trying to start a ruckus here. If this also on the wrong fiorum, please feel free to move to the appropriate forum).

Nobody? Oooooooooookkkkkk.

 

[Jaypeeto4]

My best friend is Greek Orthodox (but VERY pro-Papacy and pro-Catholic).
His brother, a nice guy,
was VERY, VERY, VERY hostile toward the Papacy and the Roman Catholic Church.
Other Orthodox whom I have spoken with are very open minded
and charitable. It just depends on the person, I guess.

Jaypeeto4

 

[OrdinaryMelkite]

My best friend is Greek Orthodox (but VERY pro-Papacy and pro-Catholic).
His brother, a nice guy,
was VERY, VERY, VERY hostile toward the Papacy and the Roman Catholic Church.
Other Orthodox whom I have spoken with are very open minded
and charitable. It just depends on the person, I guess.

Jaypeeto4

That tends to be my feeling too, as well. I know that SOME orthodox tend to be very much against ReUnion with the CC, but I doubt sincerely most are as extreme as this Elder.

 

[Peggy_in_Burien]

I am a Roman Catholic.

I found this video to be interesting, but not shocking. Some of the thoughts the priest puts forth are things I have heard before.

I, myself, untrained in theology, would probably just agree to disagree with him. He was an old man when he was being interviewed. My grandmother held similar ideas about non-Roman Catholics from her upbringing in the early 20th century. I didn’t engage her in arguements, either.

This doesn’t make me feel any differently about Orthodox Catholics (whom I know to be different from Eastern-Rite Catholics). I still pray for them. I don’t judge them as “wrong,” because they split from the Roman Church back in 1054. Many things get lost in the transmission of information in an era before fast travel, telephones, computers, twitters, etc.

But thanks for posting this. It is an interesting video, as I said

 

[Birdpreacher]

He almost got me to jump ship

 

[OrdinaryMelkite]

I am a Roman Catholic.

I found this video to be interesting, but not shocking. Some of the thoughts the priest puts forth are things I have heard before.

I, myself, untrained in theology, would probably just agree to disagree with him. He was an old man when he was being interviewed. My grandmother held similar ideas about non-Roman Catholics from her upbringing in the early 20th century. I didn’t engage her in arguements, either.

This doesn’t make me feel any differently about Orthodox Catholics (whom I know to be different from Eastern-Rite Catholics). I still pray for them. I don’t judge them as “wrong,” because they split from the Roman Church back in 1054. Many things get lost in the transmission of information in an era before fast travel, telephones, computers, twitters, etc.

But thanks for posting this. It is an interesting video, as I said

Thanks. I knew many would find it “interesting,” to say the least.

 

[OrdinaryMelkite]

He almost got me to jump ship

I don’t know whether to laugh at that or say “REEEAAAALLLYYY?”

 

[Hesychios]

That tends to be my feeling too, as well. I know that SOME orthodox tend to be very much against ReUnion with the CC, but I doubt sincerely most are as extreme as this Elder.

There is no such thing as re-union, I think the term is inappropriate.

If there were to be a union with the Papacy in the fashion most Roman Catholics expect, it would be a new thing, a first time ever union.

Now, it is possible that we could have some sort of reconciliation, in which we could share communion once again and our bishops could concelebrate, but that is different than what most Roman Catholics are arguing for.

 

[Mickey]

Great video!

 

[ComeHome2Rome]

He almost got me to jump ship

How? Why?

 

[Ridgerunner]

youtube.com/watch?v=7o7UGLTauHI

Do the majority of Eastern Orthodox (at least in Eastern Europe) believe exactly this? I doubt this.

I came across this on Youtube some days ago. Needless to say, I was shocked. Although as a Melkite Eastern Catholic I follow many Orthodox rituals and dogmas, I was shocked by the bluntness and lack of charity and “ecumenicism” of this.

This is Elder Arsenie Papacioc, Elder of the Romanian Orthodox Church, in 2005. He is now deceased.

I know how I personally would have tried to respond to this-------the bread thing, to ME is basically an issue of semantics, as even KALLISTOS WARE has pointed out-----that is one of the answers I would have given to others that Papacioc brought up.

What about the Catholics here? What do you think about this? How would you attemot toengage this?

(To the mods—just in case, this is NOT proselytizing from MY part. On the contrary, I totally disagree with this, as everybody knows me I’m a total uniate and Orthodx in communion with Holy Mother Church and a total member of it, as are ALL Eastern Catholics. Simply wanted discussion on this. Not trying to start a ruckus here. If this also on the wrong fiorum, please feel free to move to the appropriate forum).

Well, as near as I could tell, he accepts only two ecumenical councils as valid. That’s the way it is with Assyrian orthodox, for the most part, but certainly not all. The Oriental Orthodox generally accept three. Most Eastern Orthodox accept seven, though there is variation in that. The Catholic Church accepts 21.

I’m not entirely sure what kind of orthodox this priest is, and maybe most Romanian Orthodox believe as he does. But most Eastern Orthodox and most Oriental Orthodox don’t.

So, when he says his particular take is “pure”, he’s being as much a sectarian toward his fellow Orthodox as he is to Catholics, because important things happened at the various councils, including doctrinal matters.

And, one might ask, why is a “majority” more divinely inspired that the successor of St. Peter, as he claims? If the claim that one man can speak infallibly due to his office and the guidance of the Holy Spirit is inherently flawed, why is that of a “majority” any less so? They’re still men, and a group is not necessarily right just because it’s a group.

But it has to be understood that he’s old. He lived through the horrid Communist regime of Ceaucescu, and I’m sure that wasn’t easy for him. There is, indeed, a strain of Orthodoxy that is quite hostile to the Catholic Church (though it varies) and condemns it, root and branch. His assertion toward the end that the CC accepts killing because it holds “the end justifies the means” is just bizarre; the excessive kind of statement to which the elderly, in their waning years, are sometimes given.

 

[Mickey]

Well, as near as I could tell, he accepts only two ecumenical councils as valid.

Huh? He accepts the seven great councils…like all Orthodox.

I’m not entirely sure what kind of orthodox this priest is, and maybe most Romanian Orthodox believe as he does. But most Eastern Orthodox and most Oriental Orthodox don’t.

Most Orthodox believe as he does (the Orientals recognize less Councils).

They’re still men, and a group is not necessarily right just because it’s a group.

See the council of Jerusalem in the book of Acts.

But it has to be understood that he’s old.

Age is irrelevent. He was a wise and holy Elder…Memory Eternal!

 

[TrueLight]

Wow.

I’m not going to lie and say some of the things he says doesn’t make sense to me.

 

[Ahimsa]

Nothing shocking here.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Huh? He accepts the seven great councils…like all Orthodox.
Most Orthodox believe as he does (the Orientals recognize less Councils).

Viewing it again, I see that he did accept seven councils, though not all Orthodox do. You mentioned the Orientals and you are right that they don’t. He does, of course, reserve his condemnation for the Catholic Church nevertheless, and we could speculate about his reasons for doing it and probably be right. But it would still be speculation.

His attitude is not altogether unusual. I have encountered it here from Eastern Orthodox many times, though not from all. From the Catholic standpoint, one can mount just as strident a condemnation of orthodoxy. But that argument has been conducted on here many times, and I do not think it appropriate to start it again here, particularly since the priest in question essentially expressed conclusions without premises, and since, generally speaking, Catholics do not bear comparable malice toward Orthodoxy in their hearts. Perhaps, therefore, one cannot be greatly faulted for refraining from answering in kind.

 

[Ahimsa]

Viewing it again, I see that he did accept seven councils, though not all Orthodox do. You mentioned the Orientals and you are right that they don’t. He does, of course, reserve his condemnation for the Catholic Church nevertheless, and we could speculate about his reasons for doing it and probably be right. But it would still be speculation.

His attitude is not altogether unusual. I have encountered it here from Eastern Orthodox many times, though not from all. From the Catholic standpoint, one can mount just as strident a condemnation of orthodoxy. But that argument has been conducted on here many times, and I do not think it appropriate to start it again here, particularly since the priest in question essentially expressed conclusions without premises, and since, generally speaking, Catholics do not bear comparable malice toward Orthodoxy in their hearts. Perhaps, therefore, one cannot be greatly faulted for refraining from answering in kind.

Plus, I don’t think the priest is speaking to a Catholic. He’s speaking to another Orthodox.

 

[Mickey]

Viewing it again, I see that he did accept seven councils, though not all Orthodox do.

Yes…all Eastern Orrthodox do. But of course the OO do not.

From the Catholic standpoint, one can mount just as strident a condemnation of orthodoxy.

I’m sure one could.

But that argument has been conducted on here many times, and I do not think it appropriate to start it again here,

Agreed.

Catholics do not bear comparable malice toward Orthodoxy in their hearts.

You may not like what he had to say…but it is dangerous for you to judge his heart.

 

[Seamus_L]

It’s amazing how you can talk to those of the OICWR crowd and immediately hear the rhetorical question “What is keeping us from full communion with the Orthodox, they’re the other lung of the church, etc”. And then you can talk to an Orthodox and they’re response is, Whhhhaaatttt ???
I think it's pretty much a no brainer, that when any statement, comment from an Orthodox bishop is made, the Orthodox faithful do not immediately suggest that, the Roman Catholics are going to have a big problem with this. Sadly, I'm already witnessing this in reverse on other forums in regards to speculation over what exactly is contained in the new Ukrainian Catholic catechism. If your very first question is "Will the Orthodox accept this" ? You're probably in the wrong church.

 

[Ridgerunner]

You may not like what he had to say…but it is dangerous for you to judge his heart.

Possibly his words did not express what is in his heart. But perhaps they did. Since we’re not clairvoyant, at some point, we have to assume that one’s expressions of hostility reflect how he feels.