Shonda Rhimes speech about "diverstiy"

[casslean]

I’ll just point out that Shonda Rhimes wrote a storyline about a Christian character who was faced with the discovery that her unborn child was suffering from a fatal illness; her child would die within minutes of his birth. The character was faced with the medical advice to terminate and a husband who wanted her to terminate the pregnancy, and she refused on religious grounds. She delivered a live, viable child (albeit through an induced pre-term labour) and let that child live until it died naturally, in her arms.

That’s a course of action that would seem extraordinary in this day and age, where abortion has become so normalized. And it was a course of action dictated in large part by the character’s faith.

We live in a pluralistic society. There will always be viewpoints and opinions that differ from our own. I’m okay with showing that there are people with other viewpoints and opinions and lifestyles, as long as my viewpoint and opinion and lifestyle has an equal place right alongside them. And Rhimes is one of the few - the very few - who has at least tried to do that.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

I’ll help you, there’s not much out there. I watch Castle (which, besides starring Nathan Fillon, has a lot of Firefly references and cameos, btw). That show has only gotten better as various characters have gotten married - focusing on their building their relationships up, not unwinding them for cheap drama. And they’re still cool, still “sexy”. Not that that’s what’s important. But Castle is one of the few exceptions, not the rule. The Mentalist was another example, but that series ended.

I’ll have to check if any seasons of Castle are available streaming. I miss out on a lot of pop culture stuff or discover it late.

It’s surprising that Castle is still going strong after characters have gotten married because that seems like the kiss of death for some shows. Sex sells, so does sexual tension and once that’s gone, writers don’t seem to know what to do with the characters. Or maybe they do know but TPTB think they know better and go for some tired trope instead.

Switching gears…as I was considering various kinds of diversity earlier one that came to mind was more inter-racial couples. It’s funny to me because I didn’t think of Zoe and Wash right away, because the fact that they are an inter-racial couple isn’t what makes them interesting and it isn’t part of the story line. When shows are agenda driven it give episodes or entire shows a preachy, “After School Special” kind of feel. It’s the same with shows that are Christian based; if the message becomes more important than than characters and relationships. So showing LGTBQ characters without making that a major story line might make the show more interesting. There are plenty of folks out in TV land that don’t see people of color or LGBTQ as people just like them (I do have some specific people in mind).

OT: Have you seen Joss Whedon’s version of Much Ado About Nothing? Nathan Fillion has a small role and he and Tom Lenk as Dogberry and Verges are just delightful. They just hit all the right notes.
/OT

 

[Havard]

I’ll just point out that Shonda Rhimes wrote a storyline about a Christian character who was faced with the discovery that her unborn child was suffering from a fatal illness; her child would die within minutes of his birth. The character was faced with the medical advice to terminate and a husband who wanted her to terminate the pregnancy, and she refused on religious grounds. She delivered a live, viable child (albeit through an induced pre-term labour) and let that child live until it died naturally, in her arms.

That’s a course of action that would seem extraordinary in this day and age, where abortion has become so normalized. And it was a course of action dictated in large part by the character’s faith.

We live in a pluralistic society. There will always be viewpoints and opinions that differ from our own. I’m okay with showing that there are people with other viewpoints and opinions and lifestyles, as long as my viewpoint and opinion and lifestyle has an equal place right alongside them. And Rhimes is one of the few - the very few - who has at least tried to do that.

Point taken. Certainly there are positive aspects in Shonda Rhimes’ shows. I just don’t think they in any way outweigh the negative ones. But to your point, when House was on, it ran a similar pro-life episode, before Grey’s. And there really aren’t many medical dramas where this kind of thing would come up. Nurse Jackie is the only other show today that comes to mind, and it’s on Showtime, a much coarser and less family-oriented network. If they ran a pro-life episode, I’d sing and dance in the street.

 

[Havard]

I’ll have to check if any seasons of Castle are available streaming. I miss out on a lot of pop culture stuff or discover it late.

It’s surprising that Castle is still going strong after characters have gotten married because that seems like the kiss of death for some shows. Sex sells, so does sexual tension and once that’s gone, writers don’t seem to know what to do with the characters. Or maybe they do know but TPTB think they know better and go for some tired trope instead.

Switching gears…as I was considering various kinds of diversity earlier one that came to mind was more inter-racial couples. It’s funny to me because I didn’t think of Zoe and Wash right away, because the fact that they are an inter-racial couple isn’t what makes them interesting and it isn’t part of the story line. When shows are agenda driven it give episodes or entire shows a preachy, “After School Special” kind of feel. It’s the same with shows that are Christian based; if the message becomes more important than than characters and relationships. So showing LGTBQ characters without making that a major story line might make the show more interesting. There are plenty of folks out in TV land that don’t see people of color or LGBTQ as people just like them (I do have some specific people in mind).

OT: Have you seen Joss Whedon’s version of Much Ado About Nothing? Nathan Fillion has a small role and he and Tom Lenk as Dogberry and Verges are just delightful. They just hit all the right notes.
/OT

No, I’ll have to look into it. Thanks for the head up!

 

[casslean]

Point taken. Certainly there are positive aspects in Shonda Rhimes’ shows. I just don’t think they in any way outweigh the negative ones. But to your point, when House was on, it ran a similar pro-life episode, before Grey’s. And there really aren’t many medical dramas where this kind of thing would come up. Nurse Jackie is the only other show today that comes to mind, and it’s on Showtime, a much coarser and less family-oriented network. If they ran a pro-life episode, I’d sing and dance in the street.

The episode of House, while espousing a pro-life message, did not at anytime bring in the character’s faith as a factor in her decision. In that show, it was balancing risks - he child’s chance of survival versus her chance of survival. In Greys, the character repeatedly relies on her faith in coming to her decision.

I don’t think it needs to be a case of negative outweighing positive. There is nothing displayed in Greys that isn’t a part of real-life. It is just the extent to which that behaviour and those beliefs get included as part of the world we dramatize. When there is an abundance of the negative being dramatized, I’ll take the one instance of positive for the blessing it is.

 

[Midwest88]

For people that are more open watching a TV show or movie may give them a vicarious experience with group or culture they don’t have the opportunity to interact with. For others, it makes the bigots stand out (because they gotta say something) and gives the rest of us an idea of how far we still need to go.

How ‘far we still need to go’? So tv and movies have become a SJW tool to “right the wrongs”?

I’m a minority and I find that hilarious.

 

[Midwest88]

Yes, people know that there are people of color and LGBTQ, but don’t see them as people that are just like them, people that they want the same things. Often minorities are portrayed using stereotypes or caricatures and it perpetuate the one-dimensional perception of a given minority.

Isn’t that quite the assumption against the ‘people’? I don’t believe there’s a current poll asking ‘the masses’ if they believed that PoC and LGBT people need to be treated with respect and ‘are human’ which ‘the masses’ said no.

As a person of color I find that you think ‘people’ are so dumb that they need entertainment to help them understand a minorities is insulting. Documentaries, maybe, but fictional stories with the “all colors of the rainbow” agenda behind is another. Kind of reminds of those who think welfare is something grand.

My white old-school foul mouthed Italian barber doesn’t need Modern Family or Rhimes to educate him. He’d chew your statement like it’s tobacco and spit it out on the grass all while laughing. I don’t watch Sleepy Hollow in order to help my mind ‘learn’ that a black woman can be a good police officer, albeit in a fictionalized world.

 

[Havard]

Isn’t that quite the assumption against the ‘people’? I don’t believe there’s a current poll asking ‘the masses’ if they believed that PoC and LGBT people need to be treated with respect and ‘are human’ which ‘the masses’ said no.

As a person of color I find that you think ‘people’ are so dumb that they need entertainment to help them understand a minorities is insulting. Documentaries, maybe, but fictional stories with the “all colors of the rainbow” agenda behind is another. Kind of reminds of those who think welfare is something grand.

My white old-school foul mouthed Italian barber doesn’t need Modern Family or Rhimes to educate him. He’d chew your statement like it’s tobacco and spit it out on the grass all while laughing. I don’t watch Sleepy Hollow in order to help my mind ‘learn’ that a black woman can be a good police officer, albeit in a fictionalized world.

That’s why he needs to watch Coming to America.

*Every time I start talkin 'bout boxing, a white man got to pull Rocky Marciano out their [bleep]. Rocky Marciano. Rocky Marciano. Let me tell you something once and for all. Rocky Marciano was good, but compared to Joe Louis, Rocky Marciano ain’t [bleep]. *

 

[Bruised_Reed]

Isn’t that quite the assumption against the ‘people’? I don’t believe there’s a current poll asking ‘the masses’ if they believed that PoC and LGBT people need to be treated with respect and ‘are human’ which ‘the masses’ said no.

As a person of color I find that you think ‘people’ are so dumb that they need entertainment to help them understand a minorities is insulting. Documentaries, maybe, but fictional stories with the “all colors of the rainbow” agenda behind is another. Kind of reminds of those who think welfare is something grand.

My white old-school foul mouthed Italian barber doesn’t need Modern Family or Rhimes to educate him. He’d chew your statement like it’s tobacco and spit it out on the grass all while laughing. I don’t watch Sleepy Hollow in order to help my mind ‘learn’ that a black woman can be a good police officer, albeit in a fictionalized world.

I have specific “people” in mind and I doubt they are the only ones. And I realized later that some hearts and minds are so hardened that nothing new will penetrate.

But another benefit would be minorities and people who are differently abled seeing someone like themselves. A friend told me that kids that are hard of hearing think that either they will suddenly gain their hearing and others think will die when they become adults because they don’t see hard of hearing adults.

I’m not a minority but I am a bit odd and sort of invisibleIt was cool to see some characters that I could relate to. It’s good to know that someone gets it

I wonder if your barber and a relative of mine might have a different view if they had to spend a significant amount of time together. Nah, probably not.

And don’t you really want to say that you want to take my statement, chew it up and spit it out? You don’t need to hide behind your barber.

 

[Midwest88]

I have specific “people” in mind and I doubt they are the only ones. And I realized later that some hearts and minds are so hardened that nothing new will penetrate.

But another benefit would be minorities and people who are differently abled seeing someone like themselves. A friend told me that kids that are hard of hearing think that either they will suddenly gain their hearing and others think will die when they become adults because they don’t see hard of hearing adults.

So you admit that entertainment is the way to “change the hearts & minds.” Fair enough. All ‘art’ is propaganda.

I’m not a minority but I am a bit odd and sort of invisibleIt was cool to see some characters that I could relate to. It’s good to know that someone gets it

I wonder if your barber and a relative of mine might have a different view if they had to spend a significant amount of time together. Nah, probably not.

That’s the problem I have with your mind set. Your type is needy: “Get it” and needs things to be “relatable” when it comes to mass entertainment in a “ethnic/sexual/battle-of-the-sexes” way.

And don’t you really want to say that you want to take my statement, chew it up and spit it out? You don’t need to hide behind your barber.

No, at that time I meant my Italian barber, but now I’ll include myself as well. You don’t need to hide behind “social justice” and “getting it” to say “Rainbows, Unicorns and Ice Cream, With a Bit of Blood and Tears, All Day Everyday!”

 

[Bruised_Reed]

So you admit that entertainment is the way to “change the hearts & minds.” Fair enough. All ‘art’ is propaganda.

That’s the problem I have with your mind set. Your type is needy: “Get it” and needs things to be “relatable” when it comes to mass entertainment in a “ethnic/sexual/battle-of-the-sexes” way.

No, at that time I meant my Italian barber, but now I’ll include myself as well. You don’t need to hide behind “social justice” and “getting it” to say “Rainbows, Unicorns and Ice Cream, With a Bit of Blood and Tears, All Day Everyday!”

Wow. You don’t “get” me or it, at all.

Here. These are some actual faults of mine to enjoy instead of made up ones. I have more when you get bored with these.

 

[Midwest88]

Wow. You don’t “get” me or it, at all.

I do “get” you and it because I once held your mentality.

Here. These are some actual faults of mine to enjoy instead of made up ones. I have more when you get bored with these.

Huh? My “made up” fault of yours aren’t made up. It’s rather real. Just look at the posts I’ve quoted of you and responded to.