Shootings demonstrate need for gun control, USCCB says

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LeafByNiggle:
Which one sounds more appropriate: The bishops of the Church telling you what you should do or you telling them what they should do?
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False choice question implying appeal to authority.
 
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Thank you for your wonderful, informative and accurate postings…
otjm said:
The AR-16 is not manufactured as capable of full automatic. it is a semi automatic dressed up with a hand guard and a pistol grip. The same exact rifle - semi automatic, .215 cartridge as the Remington Ranch Rifle comes with a wood stock and looks like other rifles, and would not come under the ban. Why? Because liberals are not as scared of it.
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I think the left is dying to ban ALL firearms. I don’t think they have more fear for those with “tactical” polymer furniture. I just think these firearms have “features” (which in no way increase the firepower of the arms) which allow the politicos to selectively ban.
otjm said:
furthermore, according the FBI Statistics, in the vast majority of crimes committed with a weapon, rifles of any sort are not featured. They use hand guns - pistols and revolvers, and occasionally shotguns.
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Back when the “Brady Campaign” was known as “Handgun Control, Inc.”, it got its face torn-off in the political arena by BOTH sides of the aisle. Citizens want their handguns. It learned fast and turned its focus to semiautomatic sporting rifles.
otjm said:
We don’t need more laws there; we need to work on the ones we have.
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Amen.
otjm said:
Gun control is about morality?

Ony if pigs fly.
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Amen again.
 
Cath13 said:
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JonNC:
unless religious conservatives continue to elect more people like Trump and Moore who sexually assault women)

Don’t forget Conyers and Franken.

Oh, and Bill Clinton
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Those guys are altar servers compared to Trump and Moore.
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Clinton was accused of rape, while his wife trashed his accusers.
This is the problem with this whole situation. The left will defend their scoundrels, while Moore has been deserted by the Republicans. On the hand, we all seem willing to assume guilt.
None of these guys are altar servers
 
LilyM said:
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upant:
Cath13:
Life begins at birth. Abortion is a medical procedure.
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which catholic sect believes this?
Cath13 said:
Yes, that’s why most Catholics ignore them
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so we are to believe them on guns but not abortion

ok! i got ya
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You’re the one who believes them on abortion but not guns. Cath13 is somewhat more consistent in believing them on neither.
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excuse me?

just because i agree with something they believe in doesn’t mean i even agree on everything they say on that issue.

you need to check your assumptions.
 
Cath13 said:
That would be NO, but are you trying out for your own white guy hate radio show?
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saying the left maybe a bit of a stretch. many minority groups are waking up and going pro-gun.

saying most democrat politician would ban guns if they could is probably more correct.

they have already moved beyond rifles in their current proposal.

the current bill if passed would ban the glock 17. the beretta 92, the CZ75, the Luger P08 and the HK VP70 would also be forbidden.

keep your heads in the sand
 
Cath13 said:
Half of all Catholics believe abortion should be legal in all or most cases, according to a poll commissioned by The Washington Post and ABC.

And . . .

Many religious traditions, including a number of denominations of Christianity, are ambivalent about the beginnings of life. The Evangelical Lutheran Church in America and many American Baptists don’t believe abortion is akin to murder. Presbyterians concede that they “may not know exactly when human life begins” and encourage their followers to make their own careful decisions on abortion. Unitarians are more overtly pro-choice and “believe not only in the value of life itself but also in the quality of life.”
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do polls now determine what a sin is?

a poll a few years ago had 98% of catholic women using birth control. which was proven misleading. polls had hillary a shoo-in to win the presidency. it all depends on who they ask and what questions are asked.

do you place your faith in a protestant religion?
Life begins at birth. Abortion is a medical procedure.
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please defend this position from the catechism.
 
The bishops of the world should tell us wht to do when it is within their realm of expertise. They have no expertise whatsoever in the matter of regulating weapons, as is obvious from the comments they made.

They would have been far, far ahead if they had stated that the US needs to get on the issue of treating mental illness, and those who have mental problems which may lead to violence (including suicide) need to be identified and treated, and potentially possibly prevented from purchase or ownership of weapons.

Violence is a moral issue - and so is other crime.

The bishops my have a moral issue with violence and crime, but that does not equate with any expertise whatsoever in regards to weapons.

In jurisdiction after jurisdiction where Concealed Carry is permitted, crime statistics go down.

There has not been a mass shooting (with the possible exception of the Major in Texas who killed a number of military) where there has not been evidence of serious mental disturbance/illness. One does not, in their right mind, go about killing children, or opening fire on a large crowd.
 
Cath13 said:
Many religious traditions, including a number of denominations of Christianity, are ambivalent about the beginnings of life.
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Although it seems doubtful that numerous denominations are ambivalent about the beginning of life, science is not conflicted on the matter. As a matter of science, this question has been resolved: life begins at conception.
 
otjm said:
The bishops of the world should tell us wht to do when it is within their realm of expertise. They have no expertise whatsoever in the matter of regulating weapons, as is obvious from the comments they made.
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The bishops are not ignorant of what their competence is - certainly no more ignorant than you. And they apparently think the statement they made is within their competence to make it. I tend to believe them over some random person on the internet. Besides, I don’t see why it takes special knowledge of weapons technology to comment on what good and what evil can be done with them.
 
Ender said:
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LeafByNiggle:
When only lip service is given to “achieving it” (a reduction in gun violence) that is a moral issue. Of course no one can judge another’s intentions with certainty…But it is possible for someone to argue against gun control because they are primarily interested in preserving gun rights rather than solving the problem you claim everyone is trying to solve.
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And there it is: "I’m trying to solve the problem; you’re just interested in yourself."
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Isn’t that a real possibility? People have been known to act on narrow selfish interests. It is not so strange that the bishops would acknowledge this possibility and exhort people not to do it.
Pointing out that trying to reduce gun violence is a higher moral priority than maintaining the right to own a gun under a wide range of circumstances is a valid moral point to be made.
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“My point is moral, your’s is just selfish.” The two concerns are quite different but are not separable. One approach at reducing gun violence (by either confiscating existing arms or by making their acquisition virtually impossible) is rejected as impractical. The approach taken to resist it is reliance on Constitutional protection.
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Could you restate that argument? I don’t quite follow what you are saying here. Are you saying upholding an amendment to the Constitution has the same moral weight as saving lives lost to gun violence?
To prove that gun control can work I only have to look at passenger air travel. Guns are strictly prohibited and there are virtually zero murders or suicides on airplanes.
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Does it seem all that realistic to take a very unique and special case and suggest it can be extended universally? Don’t forget that along with banning guns, which requires passing through security lines, body scanners, baggage scanners, and intrusive searches, we also give up knives, scissors, and even bottles of water.
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Citing air travel is not meant to extended to all situations in exactly the same way. It is just meant to show that at least in one scenario gun control does work - just for those who say gun control never works. Actually I have seen gun supporters in this very thread who have implied that it would be better if we did not have gun control on passenger airplanes either.
 
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LeafByNiggle said:
To prove that gun control can work I only have to look at passenger air travel. Guns are strictly prohibited and there are virtually zero murders or suicides on airplanes.
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really?

according to a 2015 review
In all, so-called “Red Teams” of Homeland Security agents posing as passengers were able get weapons past TSA agents in 67 out of 70 tests — a 95 percent failure rate, according to agency officials.
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don’t feel so secure next time you get on a plane when only 5% of the weapons have been found.

this is the problem with gun control. if someone decides to break the rules: 1.) you don’t about it 2.) if you followed the rule you are defenseless
 
upant said:
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LeafByNiggle:
To prove that gun control can work I only have to look at passenger air travel. Guns are strictly prohibited and there are virtually zero murders or suicides on airplanes.
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really?

according to a 2015 review
In all, so-called “Red Teams” of Homeland Security agents posing as passengers were able get weapons past TSA agents in 67 out of 70 tests — a 95 percent failure rate, according to agency officials.
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I said there have been virtually no murders or suicides on passenger airplanes. Really. What you cite does not refute that claim.

You are not actually calling for an end to the ban on carrying guns on aircraft, are you?
 
LeafByNiggle said:
I said there have been virtually no murders or suicides on passenger airplanes. Really. What you cite does not refute that claim.

You are not actually calling for an end to the ban on carrying guns on aircraft, are you?
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you used it as a pro gun control argument.

i showed you that even with scanners, body checks, etc. 95% of weapons got thru.

that is how gun control works, it only takes guns away from those who follow the law.

i believe the locked cockpit door has prevented any further incidents and it has very little to do with guns. the number of failed test tends to prove me right.
LeafByNiggle said:
You are not actually calling for an end to the ban on carrying guns on aircraft, are you?
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no, but only because it would increase check-in time …hahahahahaha
 
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