Shorts at Mass??

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curlycool89 said:
I

Maybe I’m just a bit of a **d- - k, **but there is one reason and one reason only I dress up for a job interview: because probability-wise it raises my chances of getting a job (why yes, I am an engineer). Sam.
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Watch your language.
 
MtnDwellar said:
This was post #49. We are now up to #99. No one has provided teaching that shorts are not appropriate at Mass.

I am left to think that all the rhetoric about shorts lacking dignity or showing disrespect for the Mass is personal opinion. All have a right to their own opinion and should dress according his or her own morals and preferences.

One should not place judgements upon, or try to enforce his personal opinion on others.
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Well, not exactly. Let’s just say that when Rome has spoken on the subject, it has been in favor of modesty greater in general than what was to be found in the pagan world at large, but particular for clothing worn to Mass. Here is an example:

“…one cannot sufficiently deplore the blindness of so many women of every age and condition; made foolish by desire to please, they do not see to what a degree the in decency of their clothing shocks every honest man, and offends God. Most of them would formerly have blushed for those toilettes as for a grave fault against Christian modesty; now it does not suffice for them to exhibit them on the public thoroughfares; they do not fear to cross the threshold of the churches, to assist at the Holy sacrifice of the Mass, and even to bear the seducing food of shameful passions to the Eucharistic Table where one receives the heavenly Author of purity. And We speak not of those exotic and barbarous dances recently imported into fashionable circles, one more shocking than the other; one cannot imagine anything more suitable for banishing all the remains of modesty.”

SACRA PROPEDIEM, Papal Encyclical of Pope Benedict XV, 1921

Suffice it to say that while women were showing a substantial amount of leg in 1921, they hadn’t gotten to the point they were wearing shorts to Mass that were 4 inches above their kneecaps.

No one is allowed in St. Peters in shorts, not even the men, not even outside of Mass, no matter how hot the weather gets. Period. Nothing sleeveless, either. Call it a “personal opinion” if you like, but there is no reason a bishop might not enforce a similar dress code in his diocese. (Funny, but bishops don’t usually take a “all have a right to their own opinion and should _________ according his or her own morals and preferences” take on things…take your pick how to fill in that blank.)
 
You may be interested in viewing this video that discusses modesty and the way that we dress, especially at Mass.

It’s a portion of a homily given by Fr. Dominic Mary as shown on EWTN during a daily Mass in May. He really gets rolling the last few minutes.
 
EasterJoy said:
Well, not exactly. Let’s just say that when Rome has spoken on the subject, it has been in favor of modesty greater in general than what was to be found in the pagan world at large, but particular for clothing worn to Mass. Here is an example:

“…one cannot sufficiently deplore the blindness of so many women of every age and condition; made foolish by desire to please, they do not see to what a degree the in decency of their clothing shocks every honest man, and offends God. Most of them would formerly have blushed for those toilettes as for a grave fault against Christian modesty; now it does not suffice for them to exhibit them on the public thoroughfares; they do not fear to cross the threshold of the churches, to assist at the Holy sacrifice of the Mass, and even to bear the seducing food of shameful passions to the Eucharistic Table where one receives the heavenly Author of purity. And We speak not of those exotic and barbarous dances recently imported into fashionable circles, one more shocking than the other; one cannot imagine anything more suitable for banishing all the remains of modesty.”

SACRA PROPEDIEM, Papal Encyclical of Pope Benedict XV, 1921

Suffice it to say that while women were showing a substantial amount of leg in 1921, they hadn’t gotten to the point they were wearing shorts to Mass that were 4 inches above their kneecaps.

No one is allowed in St. Peters in shorts, not even the men, not even outside of Mass, no matter how hot the weather gets. Period.
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Since the mode of dress of the 20s was considered immodest and outrageous, it can be assumed that only the dress at the beginning of the 20th century was acceptable then. We can go even further back when popes were involved in politics and power plays and then what about the inquisition when Rome was ok with torture etc.

If the Vatican wants to impose dress rules on its own property, it is entitled to do so.

Let us not confuse what individuals want with what God wants.

No one is saying that a woman who wants to cover up from head to toe and wear a veil should not do so. Nether is anyone suggesting that it is ok for a woman to walk into mass with no top, that would be distracting and illegal.

In threads like this there is always the focus on the outer. Modesty is not just about what you wear. Perhaps there should be less looking at peoples’ bodies, more on their faces when making the sign of peace and more focus on the Mass.
 
EasterJoy said:
No one is allowed in St. Peters in shorts, not even the men, not even outside of Mass, no matter how hot the weather gets. Period. Nothing sleeveless, either. Call it a “personal opinion” if you like, **but there is no reason a bishop might not enforce a similar dress code in his diocese. **(Funny, but bishops don’t usually take a “all have a right to their own opinion and should _________ according his or her own morals and preferences” take on things…take your pick how to fill in that blank.)
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St Peter’s is a tourist destination, not just a church. Big difference. Turning tourists away is very different than turning away parishioners. Very different.
 
What is more important when we enter the house of God. Our physical appearance, or the condition of our hearts? Let us try and remember the true reason why we come to the table of the Lord.
 
curlycool89 said:
Meh. A few weeks ago both readers were wearing shorts (men), and I and others have been EMHC/alter servers at daily Mass in shorts.
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That is sad. And you are in Canada? So you don’t have heat as an excuse.
By your definitions, the Chaplain wouldn’t be allowed in the chapel (he’s a big fan of casual wear).
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Is the “Chaplain” you refer to a priest? Are you saying he celebrates Mass not in the proper vestments?
 
graceandfaith said:
What is more important when we enter the house of God. Our physical appearance, or the condition of our hearts? Let us try and remember the true reason why we come to the table of the Lord.
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The condition of our hearts.
However, it is a false dichotomy-- it is not *either/or *but *both/and.*I tried earlier, not very well, to suggest that the condition of our hearts should influence our externals.
 
novusCatholic said:
You may be interested in viewing this video that discusses modesty and the way that we dress, especially at Mass.

It’s a portion of a homily given by Fr. Dominic Mary as shown on EWTN during a daily Mass in May. He really gets rolling the last few minutes.
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Very interesting. Thanks for that.

He talks about “desensitisation” to lack of virtue, modesty, etc, in modern culture.
Yeah! We have become desensitised to a lot in the West!
 
EasterJoy said:
Well, not exactly. Let’s just say that when Rome has spoken on the subject, it has been in favor of modesty greater in general than what was to be found in the pagan world at large, but particular for clothing worn to Mass. Here is an example:

“…one cannot sufficiently deplore the blindness of so many women of every age and condition; made foolish by desire to please, they do not see to what a degree the in decency of their clothing shocks every honest man, and offends God. Most of them would formerly have blushed for those toilettes as for a grave fault against Christian modesty; now it does not suffice for them to exhibit them on the public thoroughfares; they do not fear to cross the threshold of the churches, to assist at the Holy sacrifice of the Mass, and even to bear the seducing food of shameful passions to the Eucharistic Table where one receives the heavenly Author of purity. And We speak not of those exotic and barbarous dances recently imported into fashionable circles, one more shocking than the other; one cannot imagine anything more suitable for banishing all the remains of modesty.”

SACRA PROPEDIEM, Papal Encyclical of Pope Benedict XV, 1921
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This encyclical is about modesty. I believe that we have accepted that shorts are not immodest. Knee length shorts are no less modest than knee length skirts. I don’t believe that the pro-shorts people are pro-immodesty.

Comments have been that shorts are undignified and disrespectful of the Sacrifice of the Mass. These comments have not been supported by the magisterium.
 
EasterJoy said:
(Funny, but bishops don’t usually take a “all have a right to their own opinion and should _________ according his or her own morals and preferences” take on things…take your pick how to fill in that blank.)
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Our magisterium often has this take. The Church sets up minimum guidelines. People are free to make their own choices as long as they don’t violate the minimums.

Just as the Church prescribes an annual minimum number of times for a person to go to Confession and people are free to go more often, the Church prescribes a minimum dress requirement which entails modesty and people are allowed to dress as they feel that they should as long as it is modest.
 
MtnDwellar said:
This encyclical is about modesty. I believe that we have accepted that shorts are not immodest. Knee length shorts are no less modest than knee length skirts. I don’t believe that the pro-shorts people are pro-immodesty.

Comments have been that shorts are undignified and disrespectful of the Sacrifice of the Mass. These comments have not been supported by the magisterium.
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They certainly have been in an anecdotal manner. Just try to attend a papal Mass at St. Pete’s while wearing shots…
 
ElToro said:
They certainly have been in an anecdotal manner. Just try to attend a papal Mass at St. Pete’s while wearing shots…
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Yes, the rule at St. Peter’s is anecdotal. As was pointed out, St. Pete’s is a huge tourist destination. Different rules apply.
 
I’ve seen signs online for the various churches of Rome and the Vatican of the dress code for visitors. Too bad they cannot be used here with additions for the tight and revealing clothes too…
MtnDwellar said:
Yes, the rule at St. Peter’s is anecdotal. As was pointed out, St. Pete’s is a huge tourist destination. Different rules apply.
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MissRose73 said:
I’ve seen signs online for the various churches of Rome and the Vatican of the dress code for visitors. Too bad they cannot be used here with additions for the tight and revealing clothes too…
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Really? You would like to see signs for dress code placed at the entrances of churches?

Even being dressed in accordance with the code, I would turn away.
 
With some of the ways I’ve seen people dressed, yes. That is just my opinion.

I can understand if someone is poor or limited income, and have only a few things to wear. I notice they take more of an effort to be at least dressed in a clean outfit that is decent & modest. But I can tell by looking at most people dressed inappropriately that they (or in the case of young people - their parents) can afford a few modest yet nice outfits for Mass suitable for the weather.
MtnDwellar said:
Really? You would like to see signs for dress code placed at the entrances of churches?

Even being dressed in accordance with the code, I would turn away.
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