Shorts at Mass??

[maryjk]

With some of the ways I’ve seen people dressed, yes. That is just my opinion.

I can understand if someone is poor or limited income, and have only a few things to wear. I notice they take more of an effort to be at least dressed in a clean outfit that is decent & modest. But I can tell by looking at most people dressed inappropriately that they (or in the case of young people - their parents) can afford a few modest yet nice outfits for Mass suitable for the weather.

Let me tell you a story of a woman that went to Mass in shorts and a t-shirt. I know for a fact that she has many nice things to wear to Mass.

First the woman is me. I attended Mass in shorts and a t-shirt that (gasp) I had also worn the previous day. I wore them cleaning my house.

You see, I had been at the hospital with my mother. Spent most of the evening there, well into the a.m. I left directly from the hospital and went to Mass.

I needed to be at Mass. I needed to be in community with others in worship of our Lord.

But in your opinion I should have been turned away. In your opinion, being dressed properly is more important than caring for the sick. :ehh: I am glad the Catholic Church doesn’t see it your way.

And before you say, that wasn’t what you meant. It is. It is, because that is what a dress code, like the Vatican would do. It would turn people away, people like me, who very much needed to be at Mass.

 

[buffalo]

Back in begining of the Church people wore whatever they had. Did Jesus wear a suit? Or did he wear what most people wore based on the weather? Same with the Apostles. Before he spoke I don’t read that Peter switched into his finest robes because some people would be offended he wasn’t dressed as nice as the pharisees.

QUOTE=Lormar;8071357]I am well acquainted with high heat and humidity. It’s no excuse.

You’re just a product of your generation and the slovenly culture.

Fine and good if you don’t think so. I disagree.

But I do take offense to you calling me slovenly? Really?** I said **that bikinis and short shorts are unacceptable. But regular shorts are no different in terms of morality to pants. Both cover the tempting parts of the body, and should prevent gwaking.

Must be part of your generation and your paranoid culture about shorts and women not wearing dresses. We aren’t in Victorian England ol chap.

This is all Im saying as well. Except that I wear shorts as well.

Do you wear shorts to a wedding reception? Why? or Why Not?

 

[Stylites]

But in your opinion I should have been turned away. In your opinion, being dressed properly is more important than caring for the sick. :ehh: I am glad the Catholic Church doesn’t see it your way.

And before you say, that wasn’t what you meant. It is. It is, because that is what a dress code, like the Vatican would do. It would turn people away, people like me, who very much needed to be at Mass.

I believe you will find that any parish with a strict dress code will also provide modest shawls for anyone who needs one.

 

[EasterJoy]

This encyclical is about modesty. I believe that we have accepted that shorts are not immodest. Knee length shorts are no less modest than knee length skirts. I don’t believe that the pro-shorts people are pro-immodesty.

Comments have been that shorts are undignified and disrespectful of the Sacrifice of the Mass. These comments have not been supported by the magisterium.

You’ll see from my previous posts that I haven’t tried to defend a blanket prohibition on shorts. What I am objecting to is this statement:

“All have a right to their own opinion and should dress according to his or her own morals and preferences.” (italics mine, obviously)

That is simply not true. The faithful do not have any right to show up to Mass dressed in any way that they like. A particular church or diocese can institute a dress code reflecting a particular set of morals without violating anybody’s rights. That does not apply just St. Peter’s. Any church can do that.

It is true that a church cannot by its dress code exclude people who don’t have the money for particular garments but do have a right to the sacraments. If a Catholic only owns clothing that is immodest by the standards of the dress code, then if their parish has a dress code that requires something else, the church is duty-bound to help the person meet the dress requirement.

 

[MtnDwellar]

I believe you will find that any parish with a strict dress code will also provide modest shawls for anyone who needs one.

The topic is “Shorts at Mass??” I am a man and I am not comfortable wearing a shawl, modest or otherwise, to cover my shins and ankles at Mass.

 

[EasterJoy]

Let me tell you a story of a woman that went to Mass in shorts and a t-shirt. I know for a fact that she has many nice things to wear to Mass.

First the woman is me. I attended Mass in shorts and a t-shirt that (gasp) I had also worn the previous day. I wore them cleaning my house.

You see, I had been at the hospital with my mother. Spent most of the evening there, well into the a.m. I left directly from the hospital and went to Mass.

I needed to be at Mass. I needed to be in community with others in worship of our Lord.

But in your opinion I should have been turned away. In your opinion, being dressed properly is more important than caring for the sick. :ehh: I am glad the Catholic Church doesn’t see it your way.

And before you say, that wasn’t what you meant. It is. It is, because that is what a dress code, like the Vatican would do. It would turn people away, people like me, who very much needed to be at Mass.

So if your mother had been injured at the beach and you had been with her all night with nothing to wear but your swim suit, you would have gone to Mass that way and argued that therefore swim suits ought to be generally considered acceptable at Mass? I’m not thinking so.

Again, I’m not saying there ought to be a blanket prohibition on shorts or that anybody ought to be worrying about dressing other people. I mean to say this: You agree there ought to be a dress code for Mass. The only difference of opinion is where the line ought to be drawn.

The thread isn’t about outstanding circumstances. After all, is there any doubt the Vigil Masses are not filled every summer with people who have come straight from a night at a hospital bedside?

Your point that it is wrong to judge a particular person on a particular day is well-taken, but the thread is about what boundaries there ought to be on what one chooses when one has a choice. Let’s stick to that.

 

[MtnDwellar]

You’ll see from my previous posts that I haven’t tried to defend a blanket prohibition on shorts. What I am objecting to is this statement:

“All have a right to their own opinion and should dress according to his or her own morals and preferences.” (italics mine, obviously)

That is simply not true. The faithful do not have any right to show up to Mass dressed in any way that they like.

Out of context it seems like I am promoting anything goes, including immodesty. In context, my statement is referring to people being able to use their own judgement within the boundaries of modesty.

Modesty can be defined as that which does not bring unusual attention. That’s what’s in my mind when I think about the boundaries of modesty. Modesty precludes not only showing too much skin but other modes of dress too.

 

[maryjk]

Your point that it is wrong to judge a particular person on a particular day is well-taken, but the thread is about what boundaries there ought to be on what one chooses when one has a choice. Let’s stick to that.

But how do we know when one has a choice? How does anyone know what choices others have?

I look at it as though we are teaching others what to wear by wearing the proper outfit. I feel that more people will learn what to wear by watching others than by being turned away from Mass.

And it always comes down to that. Somewhere, at some point, there will be someone that posts that their pastor has announced that they will not allow some type of dress. “The ushers have been notified.” And then it begins. Some layperson is supposed to be stopping people at the door because they are wearing whatever. (Shorts, sleeveless, flip flops, or whatever.) It has already happened here, and on another current modestly thread.

 

[EasterJoy]

But how do we know when one has a choice? How does anyone know what choices others have?

I look at it as though we are teaching others what to wear by wearing the proper outfit. I feel that more people will learn what to wear by watching others than by being turned away from Mass.

And it always comes down to that. Somewhere, at some point, there will be someone that posts that their pastor has announced that they will not allow some type of dress. “The ushers have been notified.” And then it begins. Some layperson is supposed to be stopping people at the door because they are wearing whatever. (Shorts, sleeveless, flip flops, or whatever.) It has already happened here, and on another current modestly thread.

Generally speaking, “the ushers have been notified” ought to imply that the ushers have also been instructed when and how to use their discretion. If someone is going to make a scene, they can allow them in and let the pastor contact those persons afterwards. If someone arrives with extenuating circumstances such as you had, they can allow them in and let the pastor know why they did.

IOW, if they allow a person in who is not dressed according to the code and expect everyone else to treat them as they would anyone else, no one else in the parish will die because they’ve been asked to mind their own business about it. It would be a good idea if the pastor explained that, too. It is not as if the Knights of Columbus are the Swiss Guard.

In our diocese, the EMsHC are not expected to deny communion to people who ought not receive communion. Rather, the faithful are instructed about refraining from Holy Communion when one is not in a state of grace, but the duty to ascertain whether or not one is in a state of grace is laid upon the faithful. It’s not like you can have a “10 Most Wanted List” in the sacristy! Likewise, the faithful can be instructed about what the dress code is. Letting the dress code be self-imposed is not the same as saying, “Wear what your conscience says is OK.” It merely recognizes that outside enforcement has its own practical problems.

 

[TobyLue]

This is the thing. There may be some rare occasions like in an emergency where a person may not be properly dressed if there is a dress code. To the person that said they rushed straight from the hospital to Church, was that the only Mass that you could have attended? You said you were at the hospital well into the a.m. Are there no evening Masses for you to attend? Would it have been too inconvenient for you to go home and put on something other than short shorts and a t-shirt even though you might have been a little late?

I don’t know of any parishes that will bar somebody from wearing shorts to Mass as that would be the pastors decision and if the ushers turn somebody away, then the Bishop needs to be notified. Sure we cannot and should not judge but I have seen many people leisurely go from their car to the church and they do not seem to be in a hurry and are dressed in shorts, sloppy t-shirt, and flip-flops. It’s people like this that seem to have no regard for Our Lord. They may say, “Oh, the Lord doesn’t mind how I dress as long as I go to Mass.” That’s not the point. The point is “what do **I **think about Our Lord.” Surely I would not go wearing flip-flops, sloppily dressed if I were to have lunch or dinner with the President. Look, I see many people from a nearby Baptist Church and in a poor neighborhood coming out of their services, and they dress the best they can because they are spending some time with our Lord. I see the some of the men and boys with suits and tie and ladies wearing hats and the girls in pretty dresses. In other words, they have their Sunday clothes. We in the Catholic Church have what the Baptists do not have; Our Lord, Body, Soul, and Divinity, present in the Eucharist, and we dare go up chewing gum, wearing torn dirty and sloppy jeans, t-shirts with all sorts of slogans printed. Is that how little we care about our Lord? I think it actually boils down to the way people are catechized. The central part of the Mass is the Eucharist and people are not made aware of who we are actually receiving.

Also remember, that if you are taking care of the sick, you are in the hospital with someone you love due to an emergency, the Church makes allowances and you may be dispensed from attending Mass. I have been in such a situation too with my mother-in-law. She had to go in an emergency and I was at my wife’s side all the time and were not able to attend mass during a Holy Day of Obligation.

 

[JHow]

Personally, I never wear shorts to mass, nor do my wife and children. I don’t feel very reverent without slacks and a collared shirt. But I am not convinced that wearing shorts is a big deal. There are several old guys that routinely wear shorts in our parish… and there are numerous (again the old guys) wearers of hawaiian-style shirts. Also, one of the deacons often wears sandals, and since I can’t see any cuffs, I would guess shorts, too. I know some guys (mostly tradesmen) who never wear anything but shorts all year round. Can’t vouch for what they wear at mass or church, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it was shorts.

 

[Stylites]

The topic is “Shorts at Mass??” I am a man and I am not comfortable wearing a shawl, modest or otherwise, to cover my shins and ankles at Mass.

MtnDwellar, I was responding to someone’s related issue rather than to the OP. Hey, you could make a toga or a kilt or a dhoti out of it, eh?

 

[MtnDwellar]

I don’t know of any parishes that will bar somebody from wearing shorts to Mass as that would be the pastors decision and if the ushers turn somebody away, then the Bishop needs to be notified. Sure we cannot and should not judge

And let the judging begin…

but I have seen many people leisurely go from their car to the church and they do not seem to be in a hurry and are dressed in shorts, sloppy t-shirt, and flip-flops. It’s people like this that seem to have no regard for Our Lord. They may say, “Oh, the Lord doesn’t mind how I dress as long as I go to Mass.” That’s not the point. The point is “what do **I **think about Our Lord.”

Judge: 1. Form an opinion or conclusion about.

Surely I would not go wearing flip-flops, sloppily dressed if I were to have lunch or dinner with the President…

Lunch with the president has almost no similarity to the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. The President is not at Mass. Jesus is present at Mass. I believe that the two of them have completely different standards of judging people.

Look, I see many people from a nearby Baptist Church and in a poor neighborhood coming out of their services, and they dress the best they can because they are spending some time with our Lord. I see the some of the men and boys with suits and tie and ladies wearing hats and the girls in pretty dresses. In other words, they have their Sunday clothes. We in the Catholic Church have what the Baptists do not have; Our Lord, Body, Soul, and Divinity, present in the Eucharist, and we dare go up chewing gum, wearing torn dirty and sloppy jeans, t-shirts with all sorts of slogans printed. Is that how little we care about our Lord? I think it actually boils down to the way people are catechized. The central part of the Mass is the Eucharist and people are not made aware of who we are actually receiving.
.

Comparing Catholics and Baptists is almost as wrong as comparing the president with Jesus. There are many things that Baptists do not understand.

What it boils down to is a difference in taste. The jeans that are referred to as sloppy may be that persons idea of tasteful and respectful. It is hard for me to think of a t-shirt with a logo as tasteful, but I suppose that some feel that way. I don’t judge… As a matter of fact, before reading threads on this forum - I truly never even noticed what people wore to Church. I never thought that anyone cared about what someone else was wearing. I could not have answered a question regarding what clothing the people in front of me wore.

You Guys Have Ruined It For ME

 

[Stylites]

As a matter of fact, before reading threads on this forum - I truly never even noticed what people wore to Church. I never thought that anyone cared about what someone else was wearing. I could not have answered a question regarding what clothing the people in front of me wore.

You Guys Have Ruined It For ME

Someone ought to do a scientific study on the perception differences between men and women. Say you have a double-blind study of 100 men and 100 women, and have each of them gaze quickly at someone standing on a stage, drawing back the curtain for maybe 5 seconds, and then have each of the subjects list the color and the brand of the shoes, the type of clothes they saw, the length of the neckline, was the shirt tucked in or not, were the clothes ironed within the past week, was there a belt or any other assessory. And then collate and compare and graph the results, showing which gender was able to acquire the fashion details within the alotted time and which gender was not.

On second thought, such a study wouldn’t yield any surprises.

 

[elgar]

Really? You would like to see signs for dress code placed at the entrances of churches?

Even being dressed in accordance with the code, I would turn away.

I take it you would never attend an Orthodox Church then since the expectation is much higher. One time we stopped at a Russian Orthodox Monastery in August and wanted to visit their chapel and gift shop to purchase icons. Stepped in the door and the first thing we saw was a large sign asking for modesty in dress for both men and women. We were wearing shorts so we didn’t want to offend even if noone was around. Makes a lot of sense if you think about it. What if the Celebrant decided to wear shorts and a polo shirt. Can you imagine how hot it gets under those layers of vestments in the summer?

We don’t have a problem dressing to the nines for a wedding in August. And more and more frequently these events are divorced from anything religious. I beleive our priorites are all fouled up.

 

[MissRose73]

I’ve read that they do ask for more in terms of modesty compared to most others.

I know the days of dressing up to travel and in most workplaces are long gone, but Mass we should try to make a genuine effort for 1 to 2 hours a week.

I take it you would never attend an Orthodox Church then since the expectation is much higher. One time we stopped at a Russian Orthodox Monastery in August and wanted to visit their chapel and gift shop to purchase icons. Stepped in the door and the first thing we saw was a large sign asking for modesty in dress for both men and women. We were wearing shorts so we didn’t want to offend even if noone was around. Makes a lot of sense if you think about it. What if the Celebrant decided to wear shorts and a polo shirt. Can you imagine how hot it gets under those layers of vestments in the summer?

We don’t have a problem dressing to the nines for a wedding in August. And more and more frequently these events are divorced from anything religious. I beleive our priorites are all fouled up.

 

[Soldier_Of_God]

My preference would be to see decorum and respect for God be the priority. Shorts do not strike me as in that way.

 

[anp1215]

I posted these links in another thread.

Wear Proper Clothes to Mass

Modesty at wedding

What is modest for mass should be common sense, but since everyone has different opinions, maybe we do need guidelines.

I have heard of some traditional parishes having spare shawls and such for such occasions. Some really don’t see anything wrong, while some are just defiant.

There is a parish in Houston that does this. They have clothing guidelines posted outside and if your clothing is immodest they will lend you some clothes to cover up with.

 

[PetoVeritas]

I personally do not wear shorts, nor would I ever. I personally find it disrespectful of the environment with which one is in during Mass. People dress their best to go on a job interview. People dress their best when they attend a funeral. People even dress better when going on a first date, but for some reason people think it’s okay to wear any old thing to a Mass. I figure if you wear your best clothes to an interview or a first date, then you should wear your best for Jesus and worship of Him.

I have seen gym (breakaway) pants, gym shorts, flip-flops or sandals, sweat pants, extremely short shorts, spaghetti strap tank tops, mini skirts, ratty t-shirts and the like at Mass, on Ash Wednesday, Easter Mass, and Christmas Masses too. Personally I am appalled that those individuals cannot find something a little more respectful to wear to worship our Lord Jesus Christ in His church.

I do know there are some that cannot afford anything fancy, but there is a Saint Vincent de Paul’s thrift store not too far from us where slacks are $4. I don’t have a job and I don’t have any money but I can afford $4 slacks so I don’t think there’s much excuse. I also live in Dallas, TX. where temps in July here are already at 100 degrees and I still wouldn’t wear shorts. And I’ve had to attend church without having an air conditioner in my car and still wouldn’t wear shorts. Normally you’re in the heat for maybe 5 minutes stepping out of your car or going back to it. That’s usually it so I think it’s not too much to ask for wearing something nice on Sunday. People do it every day of the week for 8 hours a day. I think Jesus at least deserves that much.

 

[MtnDwellar]

I take it you would never attend an Orthodox Church then since the expectation is much higher. One time we stopped at a Russian Orthodox Monastery in August and wanted to visit their chapel and gift shop to purchase icons. Stepped in the door and the first thing we saw was a large sign asking for modesty in dress for both men and women. We were wearing shorts so we didn’t want to offend even if noone was around. Makes a lot of sense if you think about it. What if the Celebrant decided to wear shorts and a polo shirt. Can you imagine how hot it gets under those layers of vestments in the summer?

We don’t have a problem dressing to the nines for a wedding in August. And more and more frequently these events are divorced from anything religious. I beleive our priorites are all fouled up.

I always dress modestly, Mass or not. I would not have a problem entering a Church which requested modest dress.

The Celebrants clothes are sacramentals. He has a good reason for the vestments. If I had sacramental clothing, I would definitely wear it to Mass.

I think that people dress a certain way at weddings to please the bride and groom. I have attended weddings that took place on motorcylces. Almost everyone wore leather. The mode of dress at a wedding is up to the bride and groom - probably mostly the bride. Mass is a different story.