Should 12million rosaries achieved - be appluaded?

[At_Trent]

Yes, as a theological matter. That doesn’t make it right to use the Rosary to accuse the Pope of lying about the consecration of Russia, and then to “offer” it to him like a slap in the face. Imagine offering the Pope a Rosary said for the intention, “So that Pope Benedict XVI might repent of being such a big fat moron and child abuser.” Those aren’t matters of dogma either, but it would be highly offensive and insulting, wouldn’t it? What the SSPX is doing here isn’t different at all; it’s pretty much a gigantic insult to say he’s been lying for decades about Russia and to “pray” that he stops spurning the message of Fatima and actually obeys it.

I’d like to see a single SSPX document or quote accusing JPII of lying. See, you just take this and shape it into what you want without any basis. Fabricating scenarios as you are doing is an insult of the likes you propose.

As I pointed out, it was a wonderful thing in the OP, until the SSPX was mentioned. Then it becomes a bad thing.

Hypocrisy is definitely a bad thing.

 

[rben20]

I’d like to see a single SSPX document or quote accusing JPII of lying. See, you just take this and shape it into what you want without any basis. Fabricating scenarios as you are doing is an insult of the likes you propose.

As I pointed out, it was a wonderful thing in the OP, until the SSPX was mentioned. Then it becomes a bad thing.

Hypocrisy is definitely a bad thing.

At Trent…actions speak louder than words. Why would a document be needed to state something that was already put into action by the SSPX? If the Pope says Russia is consecrated and the SSPX offers rosaries for that specific reason then common sense would tell you they don’t agree with the Pope that Russia isn’t consecrated (in SSPX views). So yes, essentially the SSPX are telling the Pope he is wrong and a liar if they offer rosaries for something that has already been completed.

And what was sited by MarkThompson and reggieM…it seems like a protest and a slap to the face and it looks even more wrong to use Our Lady as a means! What is so hard to understand? If you believe the message hasn’t been fulfilled (as neither does the society it seems) then you are both wrong according to the Pope. Simple. The Pope is the Head of the Church, not the SSPX or you.

 

[jchristie5]

Actually, no, it would be a disgusting and practically blasphemous misuse of the Rosary if it were offered for the consecration of Russia, which Benedict XVI, his predecessor, and Sister Lucia have all confirmed has been done already. Using the Rosary to blatantly call the Holy Father a liar? And then “offering” it back to him? Why don’t they just urinate on a picture of him and save time getting their message across.

Truly revolting to abuse the Holy Rosary this way. Makes Sinead O’Connor look like a saint in comparison.

Mark - not sure who “They” are but life begins with charity and ends with charity - and maybe just maybe your have an incorrect view of on the subject.
Kind regards
J
Again and always God Bless all Americans and Pope Benedict XVI

 

[At_Trent]

What’s simple is Our Lad’y instructions were not followed and as Speramus pointed out

The Rosary Crusade included the understanding that if Russia had in fact been consecrated as our Lady requested, then the rosaries were dedicated to the intentions of Pope Benedict.

Both facts are denied here because acknowledging them would make take away the opportunist’s … opportunity.

The SSPX is hated here by our resident opportunists. The fact that the excommunications were lifted means nothing to them. They will only repeatedly point out the SSPX clergy remain suspended. That’s all they have to attack them, so they fabricate things as Mark has done.

Again, not a single person has acknowledged what Speramus pointed out. The haters hope it blows over.

 

[ProVobis]

I read that a local priest has exceeded the challenge of requesting and receiving confirmation of 12 million rosaries having been completed for Pope Benedict XVI.
Does this not merit some “reward” as he seems to be walking the walk.

God Bless America and Pope BenedictXVI

kind regards
J

Seems to me that if the rosaries are offered for the intentions of the Pope, that would be a good thing.

 

[Ockham]

The SSPX is hated here by our resident opportunists. The fact that the excommunications were lifted means nothing to them. They will only repeatedly point out the SSPX clergy remain suspended. That’s all they have to attack them, so they fabricate things as Mark had done.

Indeed. Is there another group of people other than the SSPX who get described as urinating on a picture of the Pope or accused of calling him a child molester? It certainly doesn’t fit in my definition of charity.

 

[rben20]

What’s simple is Our Lad’y instructions were not followed and as Speramus pointed out

Both facts are denied here because acknowledging them would make take away the opportunist’s … opportunity.

The SSPX is hated here by our resident opportunists. The fact that the excommunications were lifted means nothing to them. They will only repeatedly point out the SSPX clergy remain suspended. That’s all they have to attack them, so they fabricate things as Mark had done.

Again, not a single person has acknowledged what Speramus pointed out. The haters hope it blows over.

Ok so the crusade is for the Pope now? The SSPX site says it is for the consecration of Russia…which is already consecrated according to the Pope. Am I missing something here? I just don’t get it…put aside the feelings surrounding SSPX. Look at what they are saying. If it’s for the Pope great but the purpose is for the consecration of Russia.

"Bishop Fellay: I leave it to be totally in the hands of God and the Blessed Virgin Mary. But, probably not. One never knows, but I would be very surprised if the Pope consecrated Russia. It would be a great, great surprise. "

 

[Adeodatus]

Indeed. Is there another group of people other than the SSPX who get described as urinating on a picture of the Pope or accused of calling him a child molester? It certainly doesn’t fit in my definition of charity.

Well especially since they’re offering him twelve million rosaries. I don’t understand how anybody can complain about that.

 

[Ockham]

Well especially since they’re offering him twelve million rosaries. I don’t understand how anybody can complain about that.

I wonder if there is another group of Catholics capable of such an accomplishment?

 

[reggieM]

I never join these threads and only did so by accident (naively thinking that the rosaries were for the Pope’s intentions).

But I’m learning some great vocabulary and building a good list.

So far I’ve got:

trad hating venom spewers
hypocrites
resident opportunists
haters

I might stay around to see if I can collect some more.

 

[rben20]

We can debate what other organization is capable of such a feat or say that this is presented to the Pope therefore it is for the Pope…

or

stop dancing around the question and get to the point and see it for what it is. The consecration of Russia is not completed according to the SSPX when we know John Paul the Great did it a couple of years ago. This is my proof of the society’s views as they are under Fellay…

"Bishop Fellay: I leave it to be totally in the hands of God and the Blessed Virgin Mary. But, probably not. One never knows, but I would be very surprised if the Pope consecrated Russia. It would be a great, great surprise. "

 

[reggieM]

"Bishop Fellay: I leave it to be totally in the hands of God and the Blessed Virgin Mary. But, probably not. One never knows, but I would be very surprised if the Pope consecrated Russia. It would be a great, great surprise. "

How would Bp. Fellay validate that the Pope did actually do it? I wonder what evidence he weighs to determine the probability that it didn’t happen also.

Stray thought …

Since the geography of Russia has changed since the fall of the Soviet Republic (and even changed before then) with some countries seceeding, could we say that “the same Russia doesn’t exist any more”?

The Pope couldn’t consecrate the same land-mass called Russia today. Right?

 

[At_Trent]

How would Bp. Fellay validate that the Pope did actually do it? I wonder what evidence he weighs to determine the probability that it didn’t happen also.

Stray thought …

Since the geography of Russia has changed since the fall of the Soviet Republic (and even changed before then) with some countries seceeding, could we say that “the same Russia doesn’t exist any more”?

The Pope couldn’t consecrate the same land-mass called Russia today. Right?

loopholes

 

[Spirithound]

loopholes

Do you believe that Russia has been consecrated to the Immaculate Heart of Mary?

 

[cyberwolf001]

Yes, as a theological matter. That doesn’t make it right to use the Rosary to accuse the Pope of lying about the consecration of Russia, and then to “offer” it to him like a slap in the face. Imagine offering the Pope a Rosary said for the intention, “So that Pope Benedict XVI might repent of being such a big fat moron and child abuser.” Those aren’t matters of dogma either, but it would be highly offensive and insulting, wouldn’t it? What the SSPX is doing here isn’t different at all; it’s pretty much a gigantic insult to say he’s been lying for decades about Russia and to “pray” that he stops spurning the message of Fatima and actually obeys it.

Is it not possible they think the Popes made a mistake?

After all this isn’t a dogma matter so they can be wrong, or is that the Pope is never wrong sort of deal?

Also the SSPX did have a “fail safe” built into this prayer that if the consecration was indeed done the prayers go to the Popes intentions.

---

Oh on an important note: This Crusade started when I was still struggling between Catholic and Pagan so I think, as in am not sure a few of those Rosaries came from me. However I was not an SSPX member and had no interest in joining them.

 

[Speramus]

The consecration of Russia is not completed according to the SSPX when we know John Paul the Great did it a couple of years ago.

We do? You can read Pope John Paul’s consecration prayer many places online, for example here. [not my blog, despite the name]

The pope prayed that God bless every nation: “The power of this consecration lasts for all time and embraces all individuals, peoples and nations.”

It is a good prayer, but it isn’t really a prayer for Russia in particular.

 

[rben20]

We do? You can read Pope John Paul’s consecration prayer many places online, for example here. [not my blog, despite the name]

The pope prayed that God bless every nation: “The power of this consecration lasts for all time and embraces all individuals, peoples and nations.”

It is a good prayer, but it isn’t really a prayer for Russia in particular.

every nation in the world…except Russia.

 

[At_Trent]

Do you believe that Russia has been consecrated to the Immaculate Heart of Mary?

Not as instructed by Our Lady in the correct way or at the time requested. Did JPII consecrate the world ? Yes.

Let’s consider this. Christ instructed Peter to build His Church. Ok, do we attribute every single Christian denomination still in existence today to the efforts of Peter to obey Christ ?

 

[Hesychios]

Is it not possible they think the Popes made a mistake?

Both bishops of Rome who have asserted the consecration was done have gone on to God.

This bishop of Rome did not assert he himself did the consecration, but probably will agree that it has been done by his predecessor in office. At least that seems to be the assumption.

After all this isn’t a dogma matter so they can be wrong, or is that the Pope is never wrong sort of deal?

He has universal jurisdiction, it is a dogma of the church.

He has ordinary and immediate authority everywhere in the church, and is the final arbiter, no appeals may be made from his judgment. This is not the same as infallibility, which was comparatively more narrowly defined but a different charism or ability.

It seems to me that dogmatic infallibility is a function of or derives from universal jurisdiction, not the other way around.

 

[corsair]

As long as we’re discussing the recent SSPX Rosary Crusade, suppose we get the number of Rosaries correct “19,149,525 rosaries” of which 5.4 million were from the USA.

Haven’t this much quibbling in sometime. Perhaps a little charity would help here.