Should a Bishop Know the Creed?

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Paul_Folbrecht

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By heart? Or should he have to read it out of the book? The one who said the Mass I went to this even managed the first four lines before he had to pick up the missal and read. And his sermon, as usual, had nothing whatsoever to do with the holy day and would have been completely in-place at a Unitarian service.

My wife’s in the hospital. Our first child, 17 weeks from conception, is in serious danger. Needing to make it quick, I went to a nearby parish where the Bishop happened to make an appearance instead of our ICK parish.

I’ve said it before, but I’ll say it again - “never again”. Actually, this is the parish where I normally attend a reverent NO during the week, but it’s a major parish downtown where the bishop apparently makes appearances (he’s an aux bishop; the archbishop of the diocese is a great guy).
 
Paul, I’m sorry to hear your wife and you have such serious concerns about your baby. Please God things will stabilize with the pregnancy and your wife and baby will flourish throughout.
You have a lot on your mind.

I don’t know the bishop Paul…and concerns like this are more than should have to be pressing on you at a stressful time…but because I’m naturally a disgustingly empathetic person, I give the maybes…like maybe he does have some memory issues…and in any case, in the interests of accuracy, priests almost always in my experience do a lot of reading from the book even if they know everything by rote.

I didn’t hear the homily also…but, even if the priest has some reason we don’t know of …if it’s the case his spirituality isn’t on track, what he needs is our prayer. Priests, and bishops, are people too, as we know. They made a decision to go into the priesthood, usually when young, and they’re likely to go through the whole gamut of human emotions and phases and even doubts, like any of us…so need as much, if not more prayer, than we do.
 
I will pray tonight for you, your wife and your child. It is the least I can do after causing you guys grief earlier this year.

Our priest always reads the creed. I never had any doubt that he knows it by heart. I have often wondered if it just something they teach in seminary, do they do it as not to be confused with differing languages or changing times, or is there some liturgical significance.
 
I hope everything is ok with the child. Thoughts and prayers are with you.

Regarding the mass, it’s important to not judge here. As was mentioned, maybe his memory is not that good, maybe he gets really nervous. Maybe he’s so used to reading it from the book he threw himself off. Maybe he just wanted to make sure he didn’t forget anything.

He’s been with the Church awhile. If he hasn’t memorized it by now, he’s not going to.
 
Thank you all for your well-wishes (and pnewton, any unpleasantness was minor and long forgotten).

As for the bishop… let’s just say he has a long history of undermining Church teaching. And his mind and memory are just fine. Let’s just leave it at that. No, there’s not a lot of reason for a thread like this, except to vent a bit.
 
By heart? Or should he have to read it out of the book?

**The celebrating clergy (bishops, priests, and deacons) should NEVER attempt to say any of the prayers from memory, even such common forms as the Creed!

I don’t know about the Latin canons, but there are Orthodox canons and rubrics that forbid attempting to say any from memory; they should be read from the service book.**
 
bpbasilphx said:
By heart? Or should he have to read it out of the book?

**The celebrating clergy (bishops, priests, and deacons) should NEVER attempt to say any of the prayers from memory, even such common forms as the Creed!

I don’t know about the Latin canons, but there are Orthodox canons and rubrics that forbid attempting to say any from memory; they should be read from the service book.**
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I guess he should have done that then. By starting to read without the book, then falling silent, looking confused, and finally reach for it, it seems all he did was demonstrate that he doesn’t know the prayer.
 
I guess he should have done that then. By starting to read without the book, then falling silent, looking confused, and finally reach for it, it seems all he did was demonstrate that he doesn’t know the prayer.

**Not necessarily. We all have brain freezes.

Mine frequenetly does so because the version of the Liturgical texts I have memorize :eek: are not quite the same as those used in the local Melkite parish.

Sort of like the difference between Slavonic and Ukrainian–just enough alike to keep me in a state of stimulating uncertainty.**
 
I would second the “brain freeze” theory. As an example, I can pray the Magnificat from memory easily, but if I am leading it in front of a group and I don’t have the text in front of me, I will often lose my place. Often I don’t even look at the text, but having it at hand is psychologically helpful.
 
I am sorry to hear of your wife’s medical problems. I will offer up a pray that everything might be well for them both

I would make some allowances, you don’t know this persons medical state or what meds they might be on…All of that can make a difference…I really doubt that a Bishop isn’t able to recite the creed from memory
 
Paul_Folbrecht said:
By heart? Or should he have to read it out of the book? The one who said the Mass I went to this even managed the first four lines before he had to pick up the missal and read.
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Once, when I was in grade school I asked my parish priest weather or not he had the prayers memorized. I mean he had read them everyday for about 30 years by then. He said that yes he knew them by heart. I asked why he read them. He told me and I’ll never forget it: “I don’t want my celebration to be about what I remember to say, but rather what God wants me to say”. He said that reading it, rather than memorizing, creates an intimacy that does not exist when you recite from memory. When you read the Word it is always new, when you memorize and recite, then it soon gets stale.
 
Hi everyone,

Last reply from me on this one. I shouldn’t have started the thread. I needed to vent about having a Mass experience compromised by a celebrant I know to be someone who opposes orthodox teaching on faith and morals and has done so for decades. I’m not going to post any particulars as there’s no point in that. I try very hard not to let it get to me when I find myself at a Mass said by this bishop (which has happened by accident twice now) but it is not easy. If any of you who love the Church and are orthodox knew what I was talking about, you’d feel the same way - in fact, I can virtually guarantee you’d be shocked and/or disgusted.

End of story.

God bless.
 
Should this arise in other situations, I agree, it could very well be brain freeze, or confusion…

I know both the Apostle’s and Nicene Creeds by heart, but they are similar enough that I often confuse the two:

I believe vs We believe
Maker of heaven and earth vs Creator of heaven and earth
Adding/omitting of all that is seen and unseen
Crucified under Pontius Pilate, suffered, died and was buried vs
Suffered under Pontius Pilate, crucified, died, and was buried…

You get the picture. Sort of The Nicene Creed As Recited By The Apostles (Had They Been There).

Just earlier today I was making the Sign of the Cross and said:

“In the Name of the Father
And of the Son
And of the Holy Spirit…
As it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be,
World without end, Amen.” :eek: 😃
 
It was my understanding as a youth many years ago that priests were required to read the prayers, the rules didn’t allow the recitation from memory.

Perhaps the rules have changed, or maybe not. But in any case, bishops are at least as old as I am, and would be inclined to have got into the habit of reading the prayers and might not be likely to change.
 
Kielbasi said:
It was my understanding as a youth many years ago that priests were required to read the prayers, the rules didn’t allow the recitation from memory.

Perhaps the rules have changed, or maybe not. But in any case, bishops are at least as old as I am, and would be inclined to have got into the habit of reading the prayers and might not be likely to change.
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Yes, they should be reading the text of the prayers…but any kind of fixed rule is anathema today. 🙂 But then one wonders why he started the prayer then while not reading it from a text?

My 5 year old son had to know the both the Apostle’s Creed and the Confiteor before he made his First Communion. Then I know an older nun who after saying a rosary with her traditionalist brother; when it was suggested they say an act of contrition … said she couldn’t remember it…it had been many years since she said it.

EF
 
My local priest is so careful that he even keeps a cheat sheet of the Leonine prayers on the altar steps, so that he can’t mess up. I doubt he doesn’t know the Hail Mary, but when you’re in front of a whole Church sometimes your mind does funny things.
 
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