Should a Catholic receive a blessing at a Lutheran ecumenical service?

[MagdalenaRita]

Margaret_Ann:

NO. It’s a sin against the First Commandment.

Please do not lead people a stray. Opinions like this allow others to falsely accuse Catholics of wrong.

So, I see it as the bread and wine in a non-Catholic Church are just that, bread and wine but when receiving in a Catholic church you ARE receiving God. The Mass is the highest form of worship there is and the first commandment states: 1. I am the LORD your God. You shall worship the Lord your God and Him only shall you serve.

Recieving somewhere else you are not serving God as He instructs.

So if you lived in a land without any Catholic priests or churches you would refuse the Eucharist from another’s hand ?

Absolutely, because it is NOT the Eucharist in a protestant Church but a piece of bread and a little bit of wine.

If any of us lived in a land where by Catholic Church did not exist , may I ask where would you go to receive holy communion ?

Again in a protestant church it is not Holy Communion but bread and wine.

There are places that do not have enough Catholic priests and so people are not always able to receive the Eucharist. In Early America when Catholics were settling here they did not always have the Eucharist available. Many of them, (not all, some gave in to protestantism), continued in their Catholic faith and refused to receive a false eucharist. Those who stood strong built up Catholic communities so the Eucharist could be recieved. That is what we should be doing.

 

[englands123]

God knows our hearts better than we know our own heart.

With this in mind and putting God first he would know I am receiving this gift by his blessing. Not from any other authority.

God clearly states NO ONE should ever come between he and us.

If I’m wrong sorry I mean no offence to anyone. But a blessing from The Lord comes in many shapes and forms.

 

[englands123]

Very well said.

 

[1ke]

If any of us lived in a land where by Catholic Church did not exist , may I ask where would you go to receive holy communion ?

If any particular Churches were available (those being true Churches with apostolic success and valid Holy Orders) such as one of the Orthodox Churches, and they permitted Catholics to commune, then that is where we would receive the Eucharist.

If no such particular Churches were available, then we would not receive it, because it is not available.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

Very well said.

Thing is when St. Paul was speaking thus he was not talking about what is received in protestant churches but what is recieved in the Catholic church.

 

[englands123]

That isn’t correct ,

Famously converted on the road to Damascus, he travelled tens of thousands of miles around the Mediterranean spreading the word of Jesus and it was Paul who came up with the doctrine that would turn Christianity from a small sect of Judaism into a worldwide faith that was open to all.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

Yes that is true but the Lutheran denomination had not existed at Paul’s time, so when St. Paul talks about taking the Eucharist in a worthy manner, He was speaking of the Eucharist received in the Catholic church, not the Lutheran denomination.

 

[englands123]

St Paul died as a Jewish Christian ?

 

[MagdalenaRita]

Yes, but He was still speaking of the Catholic church because the Catholic church was the Christian Church at that time. Many of the early Christians were Jewish but the Christian Church at that time was the Catholic church.

St. Ignatius of Antioch 50 - 108 AD, who modeled his letters, (not in Scripture) after St. Paul, stated,
“Wherever the bishop appears, there let the people be; as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church”

 

[englands123]

Aww ok well I’m sorry my friend .Thank you for putting me straight.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

No problem.

 

[Thorolfr]

I’m not sure I’d consider ELCA Lutherans anymore to that point.

I attend an ELCA church and on issues such as this, ELCA and LCMS both rely on the Book of Concord and other Lutheran documents. From what I’ve read about this issue, Lutherans believe in what is called “sacramental union”. According to Wikipedia:

The sacramental union is distinguished from the other “unions” in theology like the “personal union” of the two natures in Jesus Christ, the “mystical union” of Christ and his Church, and the “natural union” in the human person of body and soul. It is seen as similar to the personal union in the analogue of the uniting of the two perfect natures in the person of Jesus Christ in which both natures remain distinct: the integrity of the bread and wine remain though united with the body and the blood of Christ.

In the sacramental union the consecrated bread is united with the body of Christ and the consecrated wine is united with the blood of Christ by virtue of Christ’s original institution with the result that anyone eating and drinking these “elements”—the consecrated bread and wine—really eats and drinks the physical body and blood of Christ as well.

Sacramental union - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[PJH_74]

I’m not sure I’d consider ELCA Lutherans anymore to that point.

Case and point. Within the circle of cousins on just one side of my family, we have LMCS, ELCA, ELS, and WELS. Two of whom are ordained pastors.

Those churches include Creationism/non-Creationism, women ordained/won’t ordain/won’t let teach or lead men over 12, homosexuality OK/oppose acts of but address in secular/to almost fire and brimstone teachings, communion open/closed based on fellowship with other churches but not checked/must obtain specific permission from the pastor, the Pastor being able to sanction members for their private activities, and many others. There are many other smaller ones that agree with parts of the 3 major branches but reject others. So what is Lutheran other than to use the books of Concord as a basis of theology?

Honestly, in this world in secularism, I’m glad to support a fellow Christian who can recite in agreement the Apostles or Nicene Creeds. These define the essence of what it means to be a Christian. Christ’s main statement on morality is to love one another as yourself. I’m not denying the individual theological discernment of various churches, but I think we miss the bigger picture in the process.

 

[halogirl]

I wouldn’t unless your Bishop indicates it is ok. Let me tell you, it has just occurred to me that I’ve only had valid blessings and sacraments for less than two years of my life, as a convert - and it explains a lot about my spiritual changes in that time. I have come further thanks to Gods Grace in that time than in over a decade in a non catholic denomination. So stick to the real McCoy. It is good that you are showing fellowship with other trinitarian believers by attending that is enough

 

[TNMan]

LCMS holds to the Book of Concord. Some say the LCMS has become fundamentalist, but at least in my experience, I haven’t seen that.

Agree on the point about the Apostles and Nicene Creeds. We recite one of them every service (Nicene on Holy Communion Sunday’s, Apostles on the others).

ELCA doesn’t hold to the confessions, practices open communion, allows women and LGBTQ+ clergy, and allows for abortions (in extreme cases).

I’ve asked God to guide me where He wants me and asked Him to help me out aside all my prejudices and to give me wisdom, and I feel He has led me to the LCMS. I’ve struggled with crossing the Tiber and it just hasn’t been made clear to me to do it. I can only pray for continued discernment that I’m where He wants me to be. I appreciate any other prayers as well.

 

[liseux]

Thanks, Halogirl

 

[PJH_74]

LCMS holds to the Book of Concord. Some say the LCMS has become fundamentalist, but at least in my experience, I haven’t seen that.

Unfortunately this is my observation. It’s certainly not as conservative as the WELS or even the small ELS denominations which seems to be even more conservative. I think this has been especially true since the Seminex incident which pulled most of the non-Biblical literalists away. Most of the congregations that have split off are now a part of the ELCA.

The thing you have to remember is that individual congregations in the ELCA are still theologically independent to some degree. There is no regulation that forces a congregation to call an LGBTQ pastor or even a woman at that. There is also no requirement that a congregation be officially welcoming to LGBTQ members. The only real control is that the ELCA denomination itself must approve church constitutional changes and provides a model temple for new ones. But, even then these constitutions remain based on the tents of the original denominations that formed the ELCA in 1988.

I’m certainly not a Biblical literalist, I can’t be. There are somethings in there, mainly the OT, that are draconian, contradictory, or even blatantly not followed by current broad Christian culture. I think we must view what was written through the eyes of the culture that wrote it. It is a book about our experience with the Abrahamic God, not some book that fell out of the sky. This is where I have my biggest issue with the LMCS and it must be remembered that it felt the need to reassert Biblical literacy even though this has been its creed for decades. What I do appreciate over the WELS for example is that women are held equal in church life as far as I can tell outside ordination.