Should a Catholic Sue the Church?

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dominikus28

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If a Catholic was abused by a priest and the bishop covered it up, would it be ok for that person to sue the Church for damages, while still remaining in good Catholic standing?

I ask because, if it was government employees, a person wouldn’t hestitate. Besides, they do deserve compensation for such a crime. I’m just wondering, because a catholic does deserve compensation and remain catholic
 
dominikus28 said:
If a Catholic was abused by a priest and the bishop covered it up, would it be ok for that person to sue the Church for damages, while still remaining in good Catholic standing?

I ask because, if it was government employees, a person wouldn’t hestitate. Besides, they do deserve compensation for such a crime. I’m just wondering, because a catholic does deserve compensation and remain catholic
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don’t forget that Jesus teaches forgiveness. let Jesus who is the just judge be the one to pass judgment on the abusive priest

what is monetary compensation from the Church for? most priests don’t have money, therefore your taking money from the coffers of the Church herself. then your punishing the Church, not the priest.

this is just my personal opinion. but if the priest is really abusive, then sue them criminally and have them put to jail to prevent them from further abusing other people. suing for money doesn’t penalize the priest at all since the money won’t come from him
 
choy said:
don’t forget that Jesus teaches forgiveness. let Jesus who is the just judge be the one to pass judgment on the abusive priest

what is monetary compensation from the Church for? most priests don’t have money, therefore your taking money from the coffers of the Church herself. then your punishing the Church, not the priest.

this is just my personal opinion. but if the priest is really abusive, then sue them criminally and have them put to jail to prevent them from further abusing other people. suing for money doesn’t penalize the priest at all since the money won’t come from him
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I agree with this as well. When a priest abuses a person and when a Bishop covers it up the victims of the scandel are the person(s) abused and the Church. If you sue the Church you sue the other victim. I also dio not see how money would make you feel better espically given the circumstance.
 
dominikus28 said:
If a Catholic was abused by a priest and the bishop covered it up, would it be ok for that person to sue the Church for damages, while still remaining in good Catholic standing?

I ask because, if it was government employees, a person wouldn’t hestitate. Besides, they do deserve compensation for such a crime. I’m just wondering, because a catholic does deserve compensation and remain catholic
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It really wouldn’t make much sense - there’s nothing to gain from it. It wasn’t the Church itself that was at fault. Money doesn’t heal the emotional wounds anyway. Making sure the guilty go to prison is best.
 
Erin_Anne said:
It really wouldn’t make much sense - there’s nothing to gain from it. It wasn’t the Church itself that was at fault. Money doesn’t heal the emotional wounds anyway. Making sure the guilty go to prison is best.
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Prison…Most definitely.

If a person did sue I’d understand why though.
 
Both. If the abuse happens in the course of the priest’s job, than his employer (the church) also has some obligation to make amends. The therapy one may need to deal with such abuse isn’t free. The other thing is, and it’s not unique to the Catholic Church, large institutions tend not to make changes until hit in the wallet. —*just one person’s opinion.
 
Lutheranteach said:
Both. If the abuse happens in the course of the priest’s job, than his employer (the church) also has some obligation to make amends. The therapy one may need to deal with such abuse isn’t free. The other thing is, and it’s not unique to the Catholic Church, large institutions tend not to make changes until hit in the wallet. —*just one person’s opinion.
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what changes can the Church make? they already teach the right values. its each individual person making sure they stay true to those values is the problem
 
It is The Church that has put people (and in the eyes of the faithful, elevated them) into positions of authority and just as The Church claims their virtuous lives, She must also claim their sinful lives - and in the interests of transparency and of Justice as being seen to be done. What worries me about these abuse crimes is that The Church in some cases does not appear to be transparent nor in some cases even seen to be acting in Justice and this can only damage The Church further adding crime to crime. I think victims have every right to sue The Church.

TS
 
dominikus28 said:
If a Catholic was abused by a priest and the bishop covered it up, would it be ok for that person to sue the Church for damages, while still remaining in good Catholic standing?
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of course, the Church has repeatedly asked anyone who has been abused to come forward, so that they can first be ministered to, and if there is damage that can be covered monetarily to receive that help as well. This person or their family should have long since reported it to law enforcement as well. there are already settlements or funds reserved for that purpose in many places so it would not be necessary to sue in civil court. of course the same rules of evidence and proof should apply here as in any other similar case. no, when some one is a victim of a crime and reports it, they are a victim, not a guilty party, and in no way do they lose their good standing in the Church. If they don’t come forward they make it harder for other victims to get help. What would be wrong is of course is double dipping, someone who was paid off years ago to sue again.

the point of the compensation is not punishment, it is to help at least partially the victim recoup costs of therapy or dealing with other fallout from the damage they have suffered. in most cases these settlements have been covered by insurance, and where punitive damages have been awarded because the courts considered the hierarchy had been lax in allowing the damage to occur, the priest or the bishop does not pay, the diocese does, which means we all do.

from my vantage point, somebody who sues for money damages but does not make a criminal complaint has already cast doubt on the veracity of their allegation.
 
choy said:
what changes can the Church make? they already teach the right values. its each individual person making sure they stay true to those values is the problem
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That’s ducking the issue, morally and legally. Trusting people to do the right thing is not enough, there needs to be sufficiently rigorous child protection mechanisms in place.
 
choy said:
don’t forget that Jesus teaches forgiveness. let Jesus who is the just judge be the one to pass judgment on the abusive priest

what is monetary compensation from the Church for? most priests don’t have money, therefore your taking money from the coffers of the Church herself. then your punishing the Church, not the priest.

this is just my personal opinion. but if the priest is really abusive,*** then sue them criminally*** and have them put to jail to prevent them from further abusing other people. suing for money doesn’t penalize the priest at all since the money won’t come from him
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Criminal law and civil lawsuits are separate in the United States. One would have to depend on the local prosecuting attorney that works for the government to bring a criminal case against the priest and church authorities.
puzzleannie said:
of course, the Church has repeatedly asked anyone who has been abused to come forward, so that they can first be ministered to, and if there is damage that can be covered monetarily to receive that help as well. This person or their family should have long since reported it to law enforcement as well. there are already settlements or funds reserved for that purpose in many places so it would not be necessary to sue in civil court. of course the same rules of evidence and proof should apply here as in any other similar case. no, when some one is a victim of a crime and reports it, they are a victim, not a guilty party, and in no way do they lose their good standing in the Church. If they don’t come forward they make it harder for other victims to get help. What would be wrong is of course is double dipping, someone who was paid off years ago to sue again.

the point of the compensation is not punishment, it is to help at least partially the victim recoup costs of therapy or dealing with other fallout from the damage they have suffered. in most cases these settlements have been covered by insurance, and where punitive damages have been awarded because the courts considered the hierarchy had been lax in allowing the damage to occur, the priest or the bishop does not pay, the diocese does, which means we all do.

from my vantage point, somebody who sues for money damages but does not make a criminal complaint has already cast doubt on the veracity of their allegation.
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Exactly, unless the perp is deceased. Even then, there are questions as to why they may not have come forth while he was alive.

In general, it would seem that the Church would settle such cases out of court, offering to pay for psycological therapy when needed and perhaps a punitive award. It is those who hold out for outrageous sums of money that are in question as to what they’re intending to get out of a lawsuit. Methinks greedy lawyers are behind many of the suits that fail to be settled out of court.
 
choy said:
what changes can the Church make? they already teach the right values. its each individual person making sure they stay true to those values is the problem
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For one thing, it should be unequivocal policy: if there is a credible suspicion of misconduct, the diocese should inform local law enforcement.

In this country at least, that is what is expected of any citizen, or organization. Failure to do so makes one passively complicit in the abuse. It’s much like a wife who knows her husband is molesting their daughter, and does nothing about it.

Yes I think the press, in general, over exposes the severity of the problem but the Church doesn’t help itself in a lot of these cases. Yes the church is to be forgiving of sins, but that doesn’t mean that can’t forgive the sin while the offender is sitting in prison.
 
Doc_Keele said:
That’s ducking the issue, morally and legally. Trusting people to do the right thing is not enough, there needs to be sufficiently rigorous child protection mechanisms in place.
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lots of threads on this topic, I believe question in OP is what should a Catholic do who has been abused by someone in the Church, not what the church should do
this country at least, that is what is expected of any citizen, or organization. Failure to do so makes one passively complicit in the abuse. this country at least, that is what is expected of any citizen, or organization. Failure to do so makes one passively complicit in the abuse. It’s much like a wife who knows her husband is molesting their daughter, and does nothing about it.
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surprisingly enough mandatory reporting was not the law until fairly recently, late 90s in most places. A parent who knows about the abuse of their child, and does not report to law enforcement is equally guilty, and if they do not pursue criminal legal action it would seem to cast some doubt on the validity of the allegation, espececially if they later pursue a civil action for monetary damages. I am not speaking of cases where the government does not act because of its own failings, statute of limitations etc.

we have a double jeopardy system in this country where even if criminal charges are not substantiated in court alleged victims can still bring civil action for monetary damages, including punitive, and the burden of proof is much lighter. That is not to say all those allegations are unfounded, but it does give a remedy where proof to convict of a crime is lacking.
 
puzzleannie said:
lots of threads on this topic, I believe question in OP is what should a Catholic do who has been abused by someone in the Church, not what the church should do
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The issue of whether the Church should bear any responsibility for what’s happened is directly relevant to the OP:thumbsup:
 
lemonbeam said:
There are reforms in place. You don’t find such stringent child protection systems in place in other organizations, as you do in the Catholic Church
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I know - which shows that there were things the Church could do, because it’s done them now.
 
Is it OK to sue the Church for money because of abuse?
Yes
OP, please know that it is hard to consider HAVING to do this, but there is nothing objectively wrong if you have been harmed with seeking restitution and that restitution can be in the form of money for your health care and also the suffering you have gone through.
I say this because you said, in good standing. No one should think that those abused would be excommunicated or doing something against God and his Church. Most of the money comes from insurance although some does come from the diocese. It doesn’t matter. If you were harmed you have every right to seek restitution/money.

Do not be surprised if the diocese wants to settle out of court - nothing wrong with that either if you accept what is offered as a legit amount.
 
dominikus28 said:
If a Catholic was abused by a priest and the bishop covered it up, would it be ok for that person to sue the Church for damages, while still remaining in good Catholic standing?

I ask because, if it was government employees, a person wouldn’t hestitate. Besides, they do deserve compensation for such a crime. I’m just wondering, because a catholic does deserve compensation and remain catholic
Click to expand...
It is not appropriate to sue the Church in civil court. As to whether or not a Catholic can do that and remain in good standing I do not know.

1 Corinthians 6:1-11
1 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unrighteous, and not before the saints?

2 Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world will be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters?

3 Do you not know that we shall judge angels? How much more, things that pertain to this life?

4 If then you have judgments concerning things pertaining to this life, do you appoint those who are least esteemed by the church to judge?

5 I say this to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you, not even one, who will be able to judge between his brethren?

6 But brother goes to law against brother, and that before unbelievers!

7 Now therefore, it is already an utter failure for you that you go to law against one another. Why do you not rather accept wrong? Why do you not rather let yourselves be cheated?

8 No, you yourselves do wrong and cheat, and you do these things to your brethren!

9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites,

10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
*
 
dominikus28 said:
If a Catholic was abused by a priest and the bishop covered it up, would it be ok for that person to sue the Church for damages, while still remaining in good Catholic standing?

I ask because, if it was government employees, a person wouldn’t hestitate. Besides, they do deserve compensation for such a crime. I’m just wondering, because a catholic does deserve compensation and remain catholic
Click to expand...
If it involves insurance or medical coverage (if you work for a diocese or parish), and the parish won’t treat you with justice, then, yes, I think it is justified.

But morally, I think this should be just what is needed; i.e., to pay medical bills, etc. and not to make a large sum of money from your predicament.

Remember that the money one gets from a lawsuit against the Church is money denied to the poor and is a major disruption of Her teaching mission and charities.
 
Doc_Keele said:
That’s ducking the issue, morally and legally. Trusting people to do the right thing is not enough, there needs to be sufficiently rigorous child protection mechanisms in place.
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no its not

abuses happen everywhere, even in schools

there’s only so much we can do. unless we install 24/7 cameras on every priest, teacher, doctor, etc. something will happen in secret somewhere
 
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