Should a Christian be a pacifist?

[ProdigalSun]

A) I have an MA in History
b) I taught it to 16-18 year old students for 39 years
c) I have read history for over 50 years
and
d) there is more than one way of interpreting the evidence IF you are a trained historian which you must be since you chose to question my reading . Yes I have read about the Just War but not in the Gospels. Yes I have read recent essays on the origins of Christianity and yes I have discovered Jesus followers in Jerusalem led by James were called Nazarenes.

Then can you provide a source that explains all Christians were pacifists in the early days???

I do know of Christian soldiers in the time of Jesus. They even asked Jesus what do they need to do. He just told them to be honorable and just. You would think if they were to be pacifists Jesus would have told them to leave the Army. Can you site anywhere in the bible that Jesus said we are to be pacifists???

 

[ProdigalSun]

I thought Christians should be pacifist. Such as letting yourself or others getting raped, I thought it’s called martyrdom and is commendable to God. I thought it’s a great act of faith like some of the most faithful Christian martyrs.

Where would you ever learn such an silly thing? If the earliest Martyrs were able to stop their deaths and the deaths of their loved ones they would d have tried. What makes you thisnk they did not try. Maybe some did try and were able to save themselves or others!

 

[ProdigalSun]

I thought about this too. Is this right?

I also thought that in the Apocalypse, Christians didn’t go to war, God single handedly killed the enemies of Christians. Or maybe I remember it wrong.

??? really. WHere do you get this stuff.

 

[dmar198]

Where would you ever learn such an silly thing? If the earliest Martyrs were able to stop their deaths and the deaths of their loved ones they would d have tried. What makes you thisnk they did not try. Maybe some did try and were able to save themselves or others!

I agree that the early Catholics weren’t pacifists, but I’ve never seen any evidence that any group of early Catholics tried to “storm the gates” so to speak and free their brethren from prison by force. In the Just War tradition, a military effort has to have a reasonable chance of success, among other conditions. It is conceivable that a large enough group could have an Initial success in breaking some people out of prison, but the full might of the empire would have been quickly brought down upon them, and they would have failed. Thus, under the Just War conditions, it is unlikely that the early Catholics would have tried a forceful “rescue operation.” They did serve in the Roman military though, at least under some emperors.

 

[ProdigalSun]

I agree that the early Catholics weren’t pacifists, but I’ve never seen any evidence that any group of early Catholics tried to “storm the gates” so to speak and free their brethren from prison by force. In the Just War tradition, a military effort has to have a reasonable chance of success, among other conditions. It is conceivable that a large enough group could have an Initial success in breaking some people out of prison, but the full might of the empire would have been quickly brought down upon them, and they would have failed. Thus, under the Just War conditions, it is unlikely that the early Catholics would have tried a forceful “rescue operation.” They did serve in the Roman military though, at least under some emperors.

Yes I understand, That is not really what I was talking about though. I was more or less visualizing Christians being captured or arrested and before they were completely subdued fought back and quickly gained their freedom. Or possibly came across a person being persecuted by a few men and helped the person from being hurt or worse.

Most of us will never fight in a war but many of us may especially in the futre, be called upon to help someone in need. Whether that is a girl being raped or a homeless man being beat up by a gang of yout’s.

 

[Usagi]

I thought Christians should be pacifist. Such as letting yourself or others getting raped, I thought it’s called martyrdom and is commendable to God. I thought it’s a great act of faith like some of the most faithful Christian martyrs.

Not denying Jesus or the faith even when threatened with death is one thing.

Letting a random person kill or rape you (or worse, someone else) is something else entirely.

I would never look down on those who shun violence entirely, especially when it comes to war. I think the Church has done a masterful job in articulating the principles of just war, but I’m not sure that any war in practice has ever been wholly just, and certainly it is to be avoided if at all possible. On the other hand, I do not condemn the Church for adapting to new circumstances – going from the religion of a minority who could indeed hold themselves apart from such concerns, to the religion (at least nominally) of a vast majority in some societies, including those who need to see to issues of defense and law enforcement.

Usagi

 

[GEddie]

The Roman soldiers could not give up soldiering without being killed.

More to the point, as hated as they were, they fulfilled a much needed role of maintaining social stability. Societal collapse is not conducive to evangelization; conversely, the Pax Romana, despite active anti-Christian persecution, provided very fertile soil for the gospel throughout the reachable world.

So the fact that our LORD did not tell Roman troops to desert does not imply that He approved of violence generally.

ICXC NIKA

 

[Usagi]

??? really. WHere do you get this stuff.

“In the Apocalypse,” he said. Armageddon isn’t a battle for Christians to fight, it’s a battle between nations in which God directly intervenes. He’s got that much right.