Should A Christian Be President of the United States?

[patrick457]

Fran,

I understand your concern. And thanks for being honest/candid.

I’m not denying that Islam (the radical/fanatic version of it in particular) does in a way pose a sort of threat to Christianity as a competing religion, but I guess I’m only taking issue at your - not just your, really; many peoples’ - over-generalization of Muslims as a monolithic, Borg-like ‘they’ who all think the same and who have the exact same interpretation of their religion.* I mean, as a Catholic and as a foreigner living in Japan I’ve been really on the receiving end of this for a number of times. I guess it really just now strikes me the wrong way whenever someone does this.

(I’m not necessarily knocking you for the act of generalizing: this is a common human trait. Me, I won’t claim to be not guilty of painting groups with a broad brush myself. To my shame.)

To be honest, it almost reminded me of the way a number of Japanese (especially ones on the internet) paint ‘Koreans’ in a broad brush: a race of boorish, Japan-hating dog-eaters who should be wiped off from the face of the earth.

• I think radical Muslims themselves are to blame for this even. Part of me suspects that they project this - their - image of Islam as a single, unified, monolithic system, for ideological reasons likely. And non-Muslims and even some Muslims buy it, to the detriment of those who don’t really think the same way as them. It’s about as bad as the likes of, say, Jack T. Chick or the Landover Baptist Church becoming the ‘face’ of Christianity.

Have you seen the news video of the Ayatolla in Iran giving a speech last year and the crowd just started yelling out “death to America”. (hope you’re not yelling out the same sentimen!) And muslim groups have clearly stated that Europe is to become a muslim contenent. This is rather threatening to me. They keep telling us they’re already in Rome and soon things will begin to happen.

And does that mean that every Muslim will agree with that anti-Western, ‘let’s conquer Europe and kill all the Christians’ sentiment? So Muslims are now these sleeper agents waiting for that signal to grab their bombs from the basement and blow people up?

Reminds me of the good old days when we Catholics are accused of having this super-computer under the Vatican containing the name of every Protestant in the world. Hey, maybe Islam has its own super-computer in the bowels of Mecca. Which would makes sense, if we believe Jack T. Chick’s theory that Islam was really founded by the Church.

Oh, and no, I don’t say ‘death to America’. I just say, ‘darn you, America’. … See, I over-generalized there. (Sorry, Americans. I don’t hate you all; I just don’t like some aspects of your country. I mean, tornadoes. How can you live with that?)

Speaking of which, funny how Iran has become one of the faces of Islamic extremism in the West, when it has the lowest mosque attendance of any Islamic country: in fact, 70% of the population are reputed to not even do their daily prayers, and only 2-3% attend Friday mosques. Heck, this is the country that engendered Ferdowsi and his Shahnameh (Book of Kings) - a book containing and glorifying the legends of pre-Islamic Iran - in the middle of the country’s Islamicization. Iran is even probably one of the few Muslim countries that continued to have a tradition of figural depiction in art even after Islam seeped in. Heck, the Persians even got away with depicting Muhammad.

That’s all from me in this thread. I really have nothing important to say anymore. I’ve made my case.

 

[meltzerboy]

Fran,

I understand your concern. And thanks for being honest/candid.

I’m not denying that Islam (the radical/fanatic version of it in particular) does in a way pose a sort of threat to Christianity as a competing religion, but I guess I’m only taking issue at your - not just your, really; many peoples’ - over-generalization of Muslims as a monolithic, Borg-like ‘they’ who all think the same and who have the exact same interpretation of their religion.* I mean, as a Catholic and as a foreigner living in Japan I’ve been really on the receiving end of this for a number of times. I guess it really just now strikes me the wrong way whenever someone does this.

(I’m not necessarily knocking you for the act of generalizing: this is a common human trait. Me, I won’t claim to be not guilty of painting groups with a broad brush myself. To my shame.)

To be honest, it almost reminded me of the way a number of Japanese (especially ones on the internet) paint ‘Koreans’ in a broad brush: a race of boorish, Japan-hating dog-eaters who should be wiped off from the face of the earth.

• I think radical Muslims themselves are to blame for this even. Part of me suspects that they project this - their - image of Islam as a single, unified, monolithic system, for ideological reasons likely. And non-Muslims and even some Muslims buy it, to the detriment of those who don’t really think the same way as them. It’s about as bad as the likes of, say, Jack T. Chick or the Landover Baptist Church becoming the ‘face’ of Christianity.

And does that mean that every Muslim will agree with that anti-Western, ‘let’s conquer Europe and kill all the Christians’ sentiment? So Muslims are now these sleeper agents waiting for that signal to grab their bombs from the basement and blow people up?

Reminds me of the good old days when we Catholics are accused of having this super-computer under the Vatican containing the name of every Protestant in the world. Hey, maybe Islam has its own super-computer in the bowels of Mecca. Which would makes sense, if we believe Jack T. Chick’s theory that Islam was really founded by the Church.

Oh, and no, I don’t say ‘death to America’. I just say, ‘darn you, America’. … See, I over-generalized there. (Sorry, Americans. I don’t hate you all; I just don’t like some aspects of your country. I mean, tornadoes. How can you live with that?)

Speaking of which, funny how Iran has become one of the faces of Islamic extremism in the West, when it has the lowest mosque attendance of any Islamic country: in fact, 70% of the population are reputed to not even do their daily prayers, and only 2-3% attend Friday mosques. Heck, this is the country that engendered Ferdowsi and his Shahnameh (Book of Kings) - a book containing and glorifying the legends of pre-Islamic Iran - in the middle of the country’s Islamicization. Iran is even probably one of the few Muslim countries that continued to have a tradition of figural depiction in art even after Islam seeped in. Heck, the Persians even got away with depicting Muhammad.

That’s all from me in this thread. I really have nothing important to say anymore. I’ve made my case.

Yes, you have, patrick, and it is a very good one. I agree with every word of it.

 

[MarkInOregon]

It’s always the rabidly anti-modern / anti-Western / anti-diversity brand that gets the airplay and people are fixated about.

Why do you think that is? Is there nothing that these types are doing that we should be fixated about or concerned about?

The peace of Christ,
Mark

 

[patrick457]

Why do you think that is? Is there nothing that these types are doing that we should be fixated about or concerned about?

The peace of Christ,
Mark

I’m not saying we shouldn’t be concerned about them, because yes, they are a problem.

What I have a bone to pick with is the way they are often covered and portrayed. It’s really like David Koresh’s Branch Davidians being equated with all of Christianity. Or covering that cult group Aum Shinrikyo (perpetrator of the infamous Tokyo subway sarin attack in 1995) along the lines of “See? This is how people of religion act.”

(Aum, and other Japanese ‘new religions’ - Soka Gakkai, if anyone’s familiar with them, are often reckoned one - are one reason why many modern Japanese are really skeptical / wary of ‘religion’ in general and equate the term with ‘brainwashing terrorist cult’. Yes, they’re overgeneralizing. Seriously, I’ve seen people think that all Christians must be like Jehovah’s Witnesses or Mormons - yes, they also exist here - y’know, annoying creeps who hand out those weird magazines and knock on peoples’ doors to proselytize. )

 

[frangiuliano115]

I’m not saying we shouldn’t be concerned about them, because yes, they are a problem.

What I have a bone to pick with is the way they are often covered and portrayed. It’s really like David Koresh’s Branch Davidians being equated with all of Christianity. Or covering that cult group Aum Shinrikyo (perpetrator of the infamous Tokyo subway sarin attack in 1995) along the lines of “See? This is how people of religion act.”

(Aum, and other Japanese ‘new religions’ - Soka Gakkai, if anyone’s familiar with them, are often reckoned one - are one reason why many modern Japanese are really skeptical / wary of ‘religion’ in general and equate the term with ‘brainwashing terrorist cult’. Yes, they’re overgeneralizing. Seriously, I’ve seen people think that all Christians must be like Jehovah’s Witnesses or Mormons - yes, they also exist here - y’know, annoying creeps who hand out those weird magazines and knock on peoples’ doors to proselytize. )

Hello Patrick,

Thought you weren’t going to post on this thread anymore. Guess it’s just ME you don’t wish to speak to.

Meltzerboy agrees with you too, as do others, I’m sure.

Here’s MY last word on this:

Just because some people misunderstand some religions…

Let’s just lay there nice and flat while the armoured vehicles come rushing toward us (christians).

God bless you
Fran

 

[patrick457]

Hello Patrick,

Thought you weren’t going to post on this thread anymore. Guess it’s just ME you don’t wish to speak to.

Meltzerboy agrees with you too, as do others, I’m sure.

Here’s MY last word on this:

Just because some people misunderstand some religions…

Let’s just lay there nice and flat while the armoured vehicles come rushing toward us (christians).

God bless you
Fran

And that’s why I’m a bad role model: I often break my word. Over a year ago, I said I’d quit the forums as a whole, but here I am still. Seriously, this is probably detrimental. And chill out, I ain’t hating on you or anything. (I’ll confess I did get a little agitated a couple of days ago, but upon calming down, I realized I’m just getting worked up for nothing. So don’t worry, you haven’t done anything.)

But yeah, as I’ve said, I’ve pretty much made my case in the last posts, so this is probably going to be my last post here for now (unless I find another post I can’t resist not answering to, I guess - I’ll be honest now). I’ll just say this though: if for some reason I somehow turn out to be a Muslim (let’s pretend that ‘religion: Catholic’ on the profile doesn’t exist), will that change your opinion of me? Will I now be some sly, conniving sleeper agent waiting for the signal to initiate jihad? Am I now someone who’s going to drive that armored vehicle towards you?

Quddūsun 'ilāh, quddūsun il-qawwī, quddūsun alladhī, lā yamūt irḥamnā. God bless you too and keep you safe. And I mean that sincerely. And be sure you’re looking at the right direction for those armored vehicles.

 

[frangiuliano115]

And that’s why I’m a bad role model: I often break my word. Over a year ago, I said I’d quit the forums as a whole, but here I am still. Seriously, this is probably detrimental. And chill out, I ain’t hating on you or anything. (I’ll confess I did get a little agitated a couple of days ago, but upon calming down, I realized I’m just getting worked up for nothing. So don’t worry, you haven’t done anything.)

But yeah, as I’ve said, I’ve pretty much made my case in the last posts, so this is probably going to be my last post here for now (unless I find another post I can’t resist not answering to, I guess - I’ll be honest now). I’ll just say this though: if for some reason I somehow turn out to be a Muslim (let’s pretend that ‘religion: Catholic’ on the profile doesn’t exist), will that change your opinion of me? Will I now be some sly, conniving sleeper agent waiting for the signal to initiate jihad? Am I now someone who’s going to drive that armored vehicle towards you?

Quddūsun 'ilāh, quddūsun il-qawwī, quddūsun alladhī, lā yamūt irḥamnā. God bless you too and keep you safe. And I mean that sincerely. And be sure you’re looking at the right direction for those armored vehicles.

You’re a good role model, Patrick457 - you’re honest.

See, I told you we had a lot in common! I’m new here too. I also feel it’s probably detrimental. I live far from home and I don’t get upset with people easily.

I think that there would be so much to say that this post could go on for pages. So, to sum up. I grew up in NYC and am not a prejiduced person. Let’s say I’m becoming afraid. Many muslims believe sharia law is above everything - even the consitution of the United States, or that of any country. I find that they (sorry for the “theys”) do not really want to integrate but change the country where they live. Only this morning a muslim mother said this to a school principle in New Jersey when asking for an official holiday from school. Hillary Clinton is saying that Barrack Obama is not a muslim - as if it were a bad religion to be, instead of just saying “so what?”. I could go on and on.

I’m all for saving refugees. The pope, my bishop, my parish priest and Bono! are all telling me I’m to welcome them with open arms. But I’m afraid they’re not all refugees, Patrick 457. That’s my worry.

I do ask myself why the “moderates” don’t stand up for their reasonableness. I do believe that they really agree with the final outcome - but not the means to get there; or they’re just afraid to. Which is also a bad sign.

You’re an intelligent guy who probably comes from Lebanon or the M.E. Look what’s happening in Libya, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Nigeria. What’s to stop the radical, extreme element? And they tell me they’re on their way here! They don’t only kill adults but children. It’s too horrifying for me.

And what would I do if I found out you were muslim? I’d hug you and kiss you like I did to a woman I’ve known for years up in town today, I’d let you do work in my home and my daughter’s home like Jimmy has been doing for years, I’d talk with you at length about life like with my friend Rashida a few blocks away with two beautiful daughters, I’d keep giving you lunch every now and then when asked like the young guy who asks for a “donation” at the supermarket who rings my bell and reminds me he doesn’t want pork.

But, yes, I’m worried about what’s happening down there and how laid back so many people are about it. I feel like if you’re far away from it, you don’t really think about it. I think this is dangerous for christians.

For some strange reason your reply seems important to me. Do I need to be understood by a perfect stranger?

Sounds like you have things to do and the dust around here is piling up!

Fran
p.s. Did see the youtube chant. My brother in NY has a really good friend from Lebanon who is really sorry she couldn’t stay there.

 

[rinnie]

Our nation’s motto is “One Nation Under God (capital ’ G ’ )” : I prefer a Christian President, of course.

Honestly, did anyone think a Christian would think someone who denies God could do better?

This thread makes me think of so so many thing’s.

Like could a nun make a better angel food cake?

And could the devil make a better devil food cake?

But sorry, this thread did give me a chuckle.