Should a person be 'happy' living in this miserable and corrupt world?

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:)To turn the question around: Should a person living in a miserable and corrupt world be as miserable and corrupt as the world around them? 🙂
 
tabycat said:
:)To turn the question around: Should a person living in a miserable and corrupt world be as miserable and corrupt as the world around them? 🙂
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No, of course not. Perhaps they should feel joy in that they get to suffer for Christ. But, happy, no way.
 
Robert_Sock said:
Looking around this world filled with pain and suffering, should we ignore the negative things of this world and choose ‘happiness’? It seems that we should all be ‘saintly’ and forgo happiness in favor of increased spirituality. Being content in spirituality, one ought not be ‘happy.’ Earthly ‘happiness’ is such an illusion when considering we are living in the lowest of all the worlds God created. We really have nothing to be happy about in this world except in having faith in an afterlife.

Consider the following excerpt:

*The Golden Key to Heaven
by Saint Anthony Mary Claret

The death of the just: Death will reach everyone, the good and the bad; but the destiny of each one is quite different. The just man sees himself in this valley of tears as a prisoner, serving a very hard term. He considers himself a slave in this world, suffering an extremely distressing servitude. He regards himself a sailor caught in a horrible storm. And as death means an end of his confinement, an end of his slavery, and is the port of his salvation, he ceases not to cry with David, “Woe is me that my sojourning is prolonged!. . .” (Ps. 119:5). He ceases not to ask with the Apostle, “. . . Who shall deliver me from the body of this death?” (Rom. 7:24) *
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Roberto:

Should a person be so happy living in this world that they don’t look forward to eternity?

God bless,
jd
 
Robert_Sock said:
Looking around this world filled with pain and suffering, should we ignore the negative things of this world and choose ‘happiness’? It seems that we should all be ‘saintly’ and forgo happiness in favor of increased spirituality. Being content in spirituality, one ought not be ‘happy.’ Earthly ‘happiness’ is such an illusion when considering we are living in the lowest of all the worlds God created. We really have nothing to be happy about in this world except in having faith in an afterlife.

Consider the following excerpt:

*The Golden Key to Heaven
by Saint Anthony Mary Claret

The death of the just: Death will reach everyone, the good and the bad; but the destiny of each one is quite different. The just man sees himself in this valley of tears as a prisoner, serving a very hard term. He considers himself a slave in this world, suffering an extremely distressing servitude. He regards himself a sailor caught in a horrible storm. And as death means an end of his confinement, an end of his slavery, and is the port of his salvation, he ceases not to cry with David, “Woe is me that my sojourning is prolonged!. . .” (Ps. 119:5). He ceases not to ask with the Apostle, “. . . Who shall deliver me from the body of this death?” (Rom. 7:24) *
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JDaniel said:
Roberto:

Should a person be so happy living in this world that they don’t look forward to eternity?

God bless,
jd
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There is a big difference between Christian joy and earthly happiness. Religious joy is a virtue, but happiness has secularism at its roots.
 
Robert_Sock said:
Looking around this world filled with pain and suffering, should we ignore the negative things of this world and choose ‘happiness’? It seems that we should all be ‘saintly’ and forgo happiness in favor of increased spirituality. Being content in spirituality, one ought not be ‘happy.’ Earthly ‘happiness’ is such an illusion when considering we are living in the lowest of all the worlds God created. We really have nothing to be happy about in this world except in having faith in an afterlife.

Consider the following excerpt:

*The Golden Key to Heaven
by Saint Anthony Mary Claret

The death of the just: Death will reach everyone, the good and the bad; but the destiny of each one is quite different. The just man sees himself in this valley of tears as a prisoner, serving a very hard term. He considers himself a slave in this world, suffering an extremely distressing servitude. He regards himself a sailor caught in a horrible storm. And as death means an end of his confinement, an end of his slavery, and is the port of his salvation, he ceases not to cry with David, “Woe is me that my sojourning is prolonged!. . .” (Ps. 119:5). He ceases not to ask with the Apostle, “. . . Who shall deliver me from the body of this death?” (Rom. 7:24) *
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The purpose to be achieved in this life is to live a complete, fulfilling and productive existence. The Greeks used to say that true happiness is the full use of one’s powers along lines of excellence. That is to be physically, intellectually, artistically and ethically all that one can be.When I was growing up, we used to refer to a kid who could do it all as an “all arounder”. That is what we need to aspire toward.

I would be the first to agree with most of you that we live in a depraved materialistic and world devoid of values, but, religion and beliefs in otherworldly doctrines are, in my opinion, a distraction from what is worthwhile in inculcating worthy values and an obstacle to the enhancement of the human state. For example, many of the antiquated religious doctrines being practiced today only perpetuate the misery and poverty that we as humans need to escape from. Rigid adherence to medeval creeds and ritualistic practices, serve no purpose, but, only deter us from progressive and innovative modes of thought. We need values grounded in reality not superstition if, what we mean by “values” are those qualities which give meaning to our lives.

We need to seek truth through means based in reality rather than subtle forms of witchcraft. We need to enhance human well being and uplift human dignity, not impair it by foisting a make believe morality onto an already depraved and pleasure seeking culture, particularly now with nearly 7 billion of us on this planet.
 
WillP said:
The purpose to be achieved in this life is to live a complete, fulfilling and productive existence. The Greeks used to say that true happiness is the full use of one’s powers along lines of excellence. That is to be physically, intellectually, artistically and ethically all that one can be.When I was growing up, we used to refer to a kid who could do it all as an “all arounder”. That is what we need to aspire toward.

I would be the first to agree with most of you that we live in a depraved materialistic and world devoid of values, but, religion and beliefs in otherworldly doctrines are, in my opinion, a distraction from what is worthwhile in inculcating worthy values and an obstacle to the enhancement of the human state. For example, many of the antiquated religious doctrines being practiced today only perpetuate the misery and poverty that we as humans need to escape from. Rigid adherence to medeval creeds and ritualistic practices, serve no purpose, but, only deter us from progressive and innovative modes of thought. We need values grounded in reality not superstition if, what we mean by “values” are those qualities which give meaning to our lives.

We need to seek truth through means based in reality rather than subtle forms of witchcraft. We need to enhance human well being and uplift human dignity, not impair it by foisting a make believe morality onto an already depraved and pleasure seeking culture, particularly now with nearly 7 billion of us on this planet.
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Will:

Welcome to CAF. I take it you’re either an atheist, or an anti-theist? Is that a good guess?

God bless,
jd
 
WillP said:
For example, many of the antiquated religious doctrines being practiced today only perpetuate the misery and poverty that we as humans need to escape from
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Not to derail the thread, but would you give an example of a religious doctrine that perpetuates misery and poverty in the world?
 
seagal said:
Not to derail the thread, but would you give an example of a religious doctrine that perpetuates misery and poverty in the world?
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your beliefs on contraception is an excellent example. 7 billion people on this planet isn’t enough? The effects of your position on this issue is felt nowhere as acutely as sub-Sahra Africa. Increased disease, grinding poverty, what do we have to thank for such malfunctioning societies?
 
JDaniel said:
Will:

Welcome to CAF. I take it you’re either an atheist, or an anti-theist? Is that a good guess?

God bless,
jd
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I would rather say that I am a skeptic. I read enough history that it seems rather clear, to me, at least, that Christianity arose through natural sociological processes.

I will certainly grant that reality is an overwhelmingly majestic phenomenon, full of mystrey and awe. But that sense of wonder is only opened up through science.

The universe and cosmos may indeed, and, certainly do, asppear to be rational but I hardly think there is any good basis to personify the rationality. There can, after all, be “mathematics” without math becoming a “person”…
 
Robert_Sock said:
It seems that we should all be ‘saintly’ and forgo happiness in favor of increased spirituality. Being content in spirituality, one ought not be ‘happy.’
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We are not to go through life sad and miserable in this dark world; on the contrary, we are called to bring the goodness, truth, beauty and joy of the light of Christ into this dark world within our state in life amidst the people we encounter every day.
http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/8827/virtuejoy.jpg
 
Robert_Sock said:
There is a big difference between Christian joy and earthly happiness. Religious joy is a virtue, but happiness has secularism at its roots.
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You have got it right, Robert. “We should always live in this world as if we are weary of it.” St. Thomas More. “The road to Zion mourns”

But, in charity, we must try to bring joy into the world for others- to revive the weary of soul, and lighten the burden of those weighed down.

Wear the cross on the inside, and the hope of the resurrection on the outside. This is the uniform of the Christian.
 
WillP said:
I would rather say that I am a skeptic. I read enough history that it seems rather clear, to me, at least, that Christianity arose through natural sociological processes.

I will certainly grant that reality is an overwhelmingly majestic phenomenon, full of mystrey and awe. But that sense of wonder is only opened up through science.

The universe and cosmos may indeed, and, certainly do, asppear to be rational but I hardly think there is any good basis to personify the rationality. There can, after all, be “mathematics” without math becoming a “person”…
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Will:

The problem I see with that is that you haven’t thought it through. You have to ask, and get the answers to, farther reaching questions, such as: “What is matter?” “What is space?” “Why does matter appear to have hardness, or the antithesis, softness?” “An electron shell is typically 50,000 times greater volume than the nucleus it surrounds. What is in it, besides the required electron(s)? What does it consist of?” "Why is it that there is never absolute identicalness between one person’s version of a given reality and another’s? For starters.

“Rationality” is outside of what I’m talking about, except as regards the necessity for an intelligence behind the design.

God bless,
jd
 
tonyrey said:
If we’re not happy how can we make others happy? All we can do is spread gloom and despondency! The Puritans were (and are) killjoys…
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I disagree. The Puritans believed in Christ Alone. Is there anything wrong with that? They were not bad and unhappy people. It is by his blood that we are saved. Instead of calling a group “killjoys,” give some evidence as to why you think that way.

I believe in Christ alone, any friend of Christ is a friend of mine.👍
 
Robert_Sock said:
Looking around this world filled with pain and suffering, should we ignore the negative things of this world and choose ‘happiness’? It seems that we should all be ‘saintly’ and forgo happiness in favor of increased spirituality. Being content in spirituality, one ought not be ‘happy.’ Earthly ‘happiness’ is such an illusion when considering we are living in the lowest of all the worlds God created. We really have nothing to be happy about in this world except in having faith in an afterlife.

Consider the following excerpt:

*The Golden Key to Heaven
by Saint Anthony Mary Claret

The death of the just: Death will reach everyone, the good and the bad; but the destiny of each one is quite different. The just man sees himself in this valley of tears as a prisoner, serving a very hard term. He considers himself a slave in this world, suffering an extremely distressing servitude. He regards himself a sailor caught in a horrible storm. And as death means an end of his confinement, an end of his slavery, and is the port of his salvation, he ceases not to cry with David, “Woe is me that my sojourning is prolonged!. . .” (Ps. 119:5). He ceases not to ask with the Apostle, “. . . Who shall deliver me from the body of this death?” (Rom. 7:24) *
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Because we are justified by faith, as seen in Acts 13:39, we should be very happy.

Some Catholics might not like this website because it was not approved by the church, but I would say (and many others) that it is an example of why we should rejoice.

whatthebibleteaches.com/wbt_460.htm:)
 
JohnHall said:
I disagree. The Puritans believed in Christ Alone. Is there anything wrong with that? They were not bad and unhappy people. It is by his blood that we are saved. Instead of calling a group “killjoys,” give some evidence as to why you think that way.

I believe in Christ alone, any friend of Christ is a friend of mine.
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Cromwell was a Puritan. He was a highly religious man who believed that everybody should lead their lives according to what was written in the Bible. The word “Puritan” means that followers had a pure soul and lived a good life. Cromwell believed that everybody else in England should follow his example.
One of the main beliefs of the Puritans was that if you worked hard, you would get to Heaven.** Pointless enjoyment was frowned upon. Cromwell shut many inns and the theatres were all closed down. Most sports were banned. Boys caught playing football on a Sunday could be whipped** as a punishment. Swearing was punished by a fine, though those who kept swearing could be sent to prison.
Sunday became a very special day under the Puritans. Most forms of work were banned. Women caught doing unnecessary work on the Holy Day could be put in the stocks.** Simply going for a Sunday walk** (unless it was to church) could lead to a hefty fine.
To keep the population’s mind on religion, instead of having feast days to celebrate the saints (as had been common in Medieval England), one day in every month was a fast day - you did not eat all day.
He divided up England into 11 areas; each one was governed by a major-general who was trusted by Cromwell. Most of these generals had been in Cromwell’s New Model Army. The law - essentially Cromwell’s law - was enforced by the use of soldiers.
Cromwell believed that women and girls should dress in a proper manner. Make-up was banned. Puritan leaders and soldiers would roam the streets of towns and scrub off any make-up found on unsuspecting women. Too colourful dresses were banned. **A Puritan lady wore a long black dress that covered her almost from neck to toes. **She wore a white apron and her hair was bunched up behind a white head-dress. Puritan men wore black clothes and short hair.
Cromwell banned Christmas as people would have known it then. By the C17th, Christmas had become a holiday of celebration and enjoyment - especially after the problems caused by the civil war. Cromwell wanted it returned to a religious celebration where people thought about the birth of Jesus rather than ate and drank too much. In London, soldiers were ordered to go round the streets and take, by force if necessary, food being cooked for a Christmas celebration. The smell of a goose being cooked could bring trouble. Traditional Christmas decorations like holly were banned.
Despite all these rules, Cromwell himself was not strict.
He enjoyed music, hunting and playing bowls. He even allowed full-scale entertainment at his daughter’s wedding.
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One law for himself!
Despite being a highly religious man, **Cromwell had a hatred for the Irish **Catholics. He believed that they were all potential traitors willing to help any Catholic nation that wanted to attack England (he clearly did not know too much about the 1588 Spanish Armada).
During his time as head of government, he made it his task to ‘tame’ the Irish. He sent an army there and despite promising to treat well those who surrendered to him, **he slaughtered the people of Wexford and Drogheda **who did surrender to his forces. He used terror to ‘tame’ the Irish. **He ordered that all Irish children should be sent to the West Indies to work as slave labourers in the sugar plantations. He knew many would die out there - but dead children could not grow into adults and have more children. **Cromwell left a dark stain on the history of Ireland.
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historylearningsite.co.uk/cromwell_england.htm
 
WillP said:
your beliefs on contraception is an excellent example. 7 billion people on this planet isn’t enough? The effects of your position on this issue is felt nowhere as acutely as sub-Sahra Africa. Increased disease, grinding poverty, what do we have to thank for such malfunctioning societies?
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Since no one bothered to answer this particular objection, I’ll take the onus upon myself. 🙂
The statistics are on the side of the Church in this case, and that is based on the reports of secular organizations with no Church affiliation. The areas of Africa where the Church has the most influence have the lowest rates of HIV infection and unwanted pregnancies. Meanwhile, since the introduction of contraception into Western society, STD infections and unintended and out-of-wedlock pregnancies have both skyrocketed. So the reality is quite the opposite of what you imagine. I would suggest that what you have to thank for such malfunctioning societies is a lack of proper moral formation, a suggestion borne out by the previously mentioned statistics.
 
Robert_Sock said:
Looking around this world filled with pain and suffering, should we ignore the negative things of this world and choose ‘happiness’? It seems that we should all be ‘saintly’ and forgo happiness in favor of increased spirituality. Being content in spirituality, one ought not be ‘happy.’ Earthly ‘happiness’ is such an illusion when considering we are living in the lowest of all the worlds God created. We really have nothing to be happy about in this world except in having faith in an afterlife.

Consider the following excerpt:

*The Golden Key to Heaven
by Saint Anthony Mary Claret

The death of the just: Death will reach everyone, the good and the bad; but the destiny of each one is quite different. The just man sees himself in this valley of tears as a prisoner, serving a very hard term. He considers himself a slave in this world, suffering an extremely distressing servitude. He regards himself a sailor caught in a horrible storm. And as death means an end of his confinement, an end of his slavery, and is the port of his salvation, he ceases not to cry with David, “Woe is me that my sojourning is prolonged!. . .” (Ps. 119:5). He ceases not to ask with the Apostle, “. . . Who shall deliver me from the body of this death?” (Rom. 7:24) *
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Hi Robert,

How can there be love without pain and suffering? Suffering unites families and neighbours. If used properly, it’s the most powerful uniting force after love, because suffering calls for love.

Suffering is an opportunity to love. There are no opportunities for love in a world without suffering. Maybe this is one thing to be happy about in a world of suffering.

Regards,
Nael
 
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