Should abortion be banned or not?

[sarah_anne_628]

I think you all would do well to read up on a few things so here are some articles from the web that I have selected for you all to read if you so choose:

Respecting the Moral Agency of Women
Personhood, the Bible, and the Abortion Debate
Is the Fetus a Person? The Bible’s View.

Religious Liberty: A Heritage At Stake

Abortion: A Christian Ethical Perspective

Facts On Abortion In The United States
State Facts About Abortion
General Information About Abortion

Holly, first of all, I wish to commend you. It takes a lot of cajones to reverse or even alter your position, especially on a hot button topic like abortion. It is even bolder to do so in a forum such as this.

I would, however, like to address your references. ALL of those websites are “pro choice” so you may not be getting all of the information…or it may be spun to fit their agenda. In any issue, but especially abortion…it would be good to diversify your information. Unfortunately, there is very little information out there on abortion that isn’t heavily spun or emotionally charged…but you need to look at it from the other side.

The Guttmacher Institute is an excellent resource for stats and so forth, and I refer to them often to make “pro life” arguments-but, they are still pro choice.

A good resource from the “other side” would be The Heritage Foundation.

I also refer to AbortionFacts.com though I must admit, they are a little too charged for my tastes…but there is a lot of good information and arguments. At any rate, you’d be able to understand the hard core prolife position better and be able to make a better argument for your own position.

 

[rlg94086]

Holly, first of all, I wish to commend you. It takes a lot of cajones to reverse or even alter your position, especially on a hot button topic like abortion. It is even bolder to do so in a forum such as this.

Holly has cojones?!

(must be the wrong thread again. )

 

[nichjake]

Since I think that the opinions of some on such a matter should not be forced upon everyone when a great number of people disagree I think abortion should NOT be banned. If you disagree with abortion don’t have one but let other people who don’t share your beliefs decide for themselves. A woman’s life should not be ruined because she’s forced to carry a child that was conceived via rape or accident if the proper procautions were taken. If I were, by some horrible tragady, to become pregnant and wasn’t allowed an abortion I would rather kill myself than carry the fetus. So I’m also pro-choice for selfish reasons as well.

 

[mapleoak]

Since I think that the opinions of some on such a matter should not be forced upon everyone when a great number of people disagree I think abortion should NOT be banned.

Majority rule, has of course ruined many a great nation. What does “the more people that disagree” really mean? The more that disagree, the closer to equal split in opinion.

If you disagree with abortion don’t have one but let other people who don’t share your beliefs decide for themselves.

Nope, can’t stand by while people are being killed.

A woman’s life should not be ruined because she’s forced to carry a child that was conceived via rape or accident if the proper procautions were taken.

People shouldn’t be killed and exterminated just because they were conceived via rape or so called ‘accident’.

If I were, by some horrible tragady, to become pregnant and wasn’t allowed an abortion I would rather kill myself than carry the fetus. So I’m also pro-choice for selfish reasons as well.

Their are institutions available to those who wish to kill themselves.

 

[hasikelee]

Let me weigh in. There are more diseases out there than cancer or whatnot. Yes there are some circumstances unfortunately. I was diagnosed with HELLP syndrome at 27 weeks pregnant and it was very severe. Luckly my baby was old enough to survive. Women can sometimes get this syndrome very early - too early for the baby to survive (the mother and child will die if the baby is not taken). So, would you be againt a 20 week pregnant woman who is on death’s door having her doctor perform a c-section or induce birth even though it’s almost a certainty the child wouldn’t make it (I am not talking abortion - I am talking delivering the baby and letting nature take it’s course - trying to save it if it can survive or letting it die if it’s too young to survive?)

Actually, delivering early is becoming more and more successful.

Here, a girl just under 22 weeks was delivered:
msnbc.msn.com/id/17237979/

Also, the famous girl born at 24 weeks has hit her 1st b-day I believe? She was recently featured in a newspaper as she does not suffer from any of the classic preemie risks, such as retardation, poor eyesight or digestive issues.

I do believe that early induction of labor is different from the methods of a procured abortion, where the death of the pre-born child is the direct purpose of the surgery.

To those on the thread:

HELLP syndrome is an abbreviation referring to several conditions that occur in relation to pre-eclampsia or eclampsia, although some scientists believe it is a variation of those two.

The occurrence estimate of HELLP is that 10% of women who develop pre-eclampsia or eclampsia will go on to develop HELLP syndrome, although the syndrome can sometimes be the first signs of the illness.

Hellp stands for:

H: hemolysis
EL: elevated liver enzymes
LP: low platelet count

Although I found information saying it can occur at anytime during pregnancy, it appears that more than 80% of the cases occur in the 3rd trimester, a time during which pre-term delivery is widely successful in America.

If the disease is not treated early, up to 25% of women will develop severe complications, such as liver failure or bleeding. Without any treatment at all, a small number of women may die.

So, basically, because of a rare collection of symptoms related to a rare pregnancy complication that might be fatal if not treated at all, abortion should be legal in all 50 states up to 9 months in-utero?

Interestingly, scientists are still trying to find more about this collection of symptoms. All they know is that if you are over 25, white, and have previous health issues with blood (such as high blood pressure, obesity, anemia/diabetes, etc) then you are at a higher risk of getting this.

Please note this is not an attempt to dismiss the seriousness of the disease. The complications of pre-eclampsia and HELLP are severe and can cause lasting health effects on the mother and baby. Those who fear they might be at risk for this disease or who have symptoms should seek immediate medical help.

 

[st_lucy]

Since I think that the opinions of some on such a matter should not be forced upon everyone when a great number of people disagree I think abortion should NOT be banned. If you disagree with abortion don’t have one but let other people who don’t share your beliefs decide for themselves. A woman’s life should not be ruined because she’s forced to carry a child that was conceived via rape or accident if the proper procautions were taken. If I were, by some horrible tragady, to become pregnant and wasn’t allowed an abortion I would rather kill myself than carry the fetus. So I’m also pro-choice for selfish reasons as well.

What about the baby?

Did he do something wrong that you would deem it okay to kill him? And in case you are unaware the death sentence you have just sentenced you child to is not a nice go to sleep sentence that you might give you old/sick dog/cat/rabbit etc. It is a horrible acid puring/limb pulling apart/hole drilled into the back of the head death.

Thank God those of us who are a result of a horrible crime such as rape had mothers who thought a little more of us - me included.

 

[TC2]

Here’s the deal. (I do not speak of rape here, but consentual sex)

Sex causes pregnancy. (not always, and there are other ways to get pregnant, but follow me here)

It is a fact, read it again. Sex causes pregnancy.
A woman chooses to have sex. A man chooses the same.
The biology is plain, read the first sentence again.

When you choose to have sex, you take the risk of pregnancy.
Nothing is a guarantee against it, other than abstinence or medical sterilization. So you accept those risks. You are an adult. You understand enough of biology to realize what may happen, despite ‘precautions’.

If you are mature enough (doubtful in most cases) to have sex, then you are mature enough to deal with the consequences.
Not by copping out and killing the child.

YOU did this. YOU caused it. YOU CHOSE IT.
Inderectly, but still the same.
You chose to run the risk of pregnancy. It’s part of life.
If you’re going to play the game, you have to pay the price.
Sex causes pregnancy.

So why don’t we all grow up and own up to our own screw ups?
If you’re mature enough to have sex, you need to be prepared to carry a child to term, then to raise it or adopt it out. That’s what a mature adult does. Not run out and ‘get rid of’ the ‘problem’ then go right back and do it again.

Foolishness is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

All the unmarried sexually active folks out there? Grow up and own up to your responsiblity.

 

[Riley259]

Should abortion be banned or not?

I personally do not think it should be banned. I support a woman’s right to choose. I am, however, pro-life. What do you think?

Your beliefs are in total contradiction to one another…pro-life and supporting a woman’s right to choose to kill her pre-born infant. Maybe you should run for something in the Democratic Party. Seriously, I’ll pray for you.

 

[puzzleannie]

Should abortion be banned or not?

I personally do not think it should be banned. I support a woman’s right to choose. I am, however, pro-life. What do you think?

no you are not pro-life. abortion is murder, murder is pro-death, not pro-life. if you have laws against murder there must logically be laws against abortion. if a woman has a right to choose to kill her baby, why does not a man have the right to choose to kill his wife, a robber have the right to choose to kill his victim, a politician have the right to choose to kill his opponent, and I have the right to choose to kill my grandmother.

 

[Holly3278]

Well everyone, I have changed my opinion once and for all. I believe that abortion is evil and that the only time it might be acceptable is when the mother’s life or health is in danger.

 

[GoldenAngel]

Should abortion be banned or not?

I personally do not think it should be banned. I support a woman’s right to choose. I am, however, pro-life. What do you think?

Abortion is murder bottom line! Only God Almighty Has the right of life or death. NOBODY has the right to dispose of a life at any time.

 

[Holly3278]

Abortion is murder bottom line! Only God Almighty Has the right of life or death. NOBODY has the right to dispose of a life at any time.

I agree with you. See my last post where I changed my mind.

 

[Andruschak]

Should abortion be banned or not?

I personally do not think it should be banned. I support a woman’s right to choose. I am, however, pro-life. What do you think?

It doesn’t matter any more, you know. Nowadays, so many women regard abortion as a right that banning it, making it illegal, prosecuting it…will just drive it underground the way alcohol was in the 1920s and drugs are nowadays.

Before Roe vs Wade, abortions were illegal and dangerous, and women had them ANYWAY. Desperation.

Nowadays, abortions are much safer. Safer then childbirth. And if women want them, and they are illegal, they will still have them.

BUT, it won’t be individual backyard providers. More likely well organized gangs, along the lines of todays drug cartels. Standards will be maintained, as women demand it. And you can be sure the gangs will be a lot less tolerant about “peaceful demonstraters”.

Of course, those who can afford it will just take a trip to Canada or Europe for their abortion, the poor will have to do with the gangs.

Ban abortions? Perhaps the day after you bring back the Jim Crow Laws.

 

[Andruschak]

Well everyone, I have changed my opinion once and for all. I believe that abortion is evil and that the only time it might be acceptable is when the mother’s life or health is in danger.

Why those exceptions? What about rape? Why exceptions at all? If it is wrong, is it not wrong in all circumstances?

 

[GeorgiaPeach]

Well everyone, I have changed my opinion once and for all. I believe that abortion is evil and that the only time it might be acceptable is when the mother’s life or health is in danger.

Here is a link to a thread you started last year: Catholic Bishop: Speaker Nancy Pelosi Can’t be Catholic and Pro-Abortion

Maybe you should review some of your old pro-life posts. You seemed to have a good understanding of the issue at one time. Honestly, the inconsistency in your posts confuses me.

 

[mlchance]

Nowadays, abortions are much safer. Safer then childbirth. And if women want them, and they are illegal, they will still have them.

Abortion’s mortality rate for those undergoing the procedure is about 50%.

Ban abortions? Perhaps the day after you bring back the Jim Crow Laws.

Ah, yes. Because people who think the unborn shouldn’t be killed are cut from the same cloth as racists.

indeed.

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[PLAL]

I just don’t think that something based upon religious beliefs should be legislated.

I am personally pro-life meaning that I am against abortion and wish it did not exist but I am pro-choice as well meaning that I do believe a woman should have the right to choose an abortion if that is what she really wants.

I do, however, also believe that we should do all that we can to prevent abortion from happening. I do not see banning abortion as a solution.

Holly,

For one thing you can’t call yourself “Pro-Life” and say it is OK for an abortion to take place. “Pro-Life” means you support ALL LIFE from the WOMB to the TOMB.

Another thing is you can’t be for Abortion and Catholic. These are again opposites. You need to refer to your Catholic Catechism book.

You stated you don’t see BANNING abortion as the solution.

Do you feel the same about rape, slavery, terrorism, bank robberies, white collar crime and murdering someone on the street?

If that’s the case, shouldn’t we just make stop signs and red lights optional, no speed limits, paying taxes then should be optional and assassinting a politician you don’t like should be fine also.

PLAL

 

[PLAL]

Well everyone, I have changed my opinion once and for all. I believe that abortion is evil and that the only time it might be acceptable is when the mother’s life or health is in danger.

Life of the Mother

all.org/article.php?id=10242

all.org/article.php?id=10216

 

[Holly3278]

Why those exceptions? What about rape? Why exceptions at all? If it is wrong, is it not wrong in all circumstances?

Do you honestly mean to tell me that you would condemn a woman for getting an abortion to save her life? I’m sorry but that is just ridiculous.

Life of the Mother

all.org/article.php?id=10242

all.org/article.php?id=10216

Thank you for the links. I’ll check them out.

 

[Holly3278]

Life of the Mother

* In the event that the mother's life is threatened, we must remember that there are two patients involved. Every possible effort must be made to save both.

* There are virtually no conditions that threaten the mother's life in which abortion is a medically recognized treatment. In some conditions (e.g., an ectopic pregnancy or a cancerous uterus) a treatment may be required which indirectly kills the preborn. But in such cases, the treatment does not legally or morally qualify as an abortion. When removing a cancerous uterus, the intent is to save the mother; every effort to save the child should still be made. Thus even if the child dies, the treatment is still fully justified. The death of the child was never INTENDED. In contrast, for an abortion the intent is always the same: to kill the preborn child.

* Quote from Dr. Alan Guttmacher, pro-abortionist and former head of Planned Parenthood, in 1967: "Today it is possible for almost any patient to be brought through pregnancy alive, unless she suffers from a fatal illness such as cancer or leukemia, and if so, abortion would be unlikely to prolong, much less save life."

See, I did not know most of this stuff. But I do fully agree with it. The goal should always be to save the life of both. And if a treatment is required that indirectly kills the unborn baby, I do not see how that is immoral.

Is abortion ever medically necessary?

Abortion is never necessary to save a mother’s life.

It is important to distinguish between direct abortion, which is the intentional and willed destruction of a preborn child, and a legitimate treatment a pregnant mother may choose to save her life. Operations that are performed to save the life of the mother-such as the removal of a cancerous uterus or an ectopic pregnancy that poses the threat of imminent death-are considered indirect abortions.

They are justified under a concept called the “principle of double effect.” Under this principle, the death of the child is an unintended effect of an operation independently justified by the necessity of saving the mother’s life.

Essentially, both mother and child should be treated as patients. A doctor should try to protect both. However, in the course of treating a woman, if her child dies, that is not considered abortion.

Today it is possible for almost any patient to be brought through pregnancy alive, unless she suffers from a fatal disease such as cancer or leukemia, and if so, abortion would be unlikely to prolong, much less save the life of the mother.

-Alan Guttmacher, former Planned Parenthood president

Again, I did not realize this but I do fully agree with it.