Should abortion be banned or not?

[catharina]

Holly, following your logic, you can be against abortion while still seeing it as a mother’s right if she so chooses. Expand your thinking to include: pregnant women can steal, murder, defame, deface houses of worship, anything they want really, if they so choose. Now what?

What is your religion, BTW?

Recently a Holly on this site went from Catholic to Episcopalian. Is that you?

 

[Holly3278]

Holly, following your logic, you can be against abortion while still seeing it as a mother’s right if she so chooses. Expand your thinking to include: pregnant women can steal, murder, defame, deface houses of worship, anything they want really, if they so choose. Now what?

What is your religion, BTW?

Recently a Holly on this site went from Catholic to Episcopalian. Is that you?

Yes, that was me. And I have now changed from Episcopalian to Baptist. I never really became Episcopalian, I just went to an Episcopal Church for 1 Sunday. I have been a Baptist, however, for all my life.

Also, I have changed my position on abortion and feel it is evil. I wish people would read my entire thread before posting.

 

[Ted_in_Charlott]

One of the beautiful things about this forum is sometimes people are open to change and do in fact change their minds after a logical discussion. It is all worth the effort when that happens. Good job.

 

[catharina]

Well everyone, I have changed my opinion once and for all. I believe that abortion is evil and that the only time it might be acceptable is when the mother’s life or health is in danger.

Holly, most abortions in this country stem from the notion that a pregnancy is impairing a woman’s mental health (comfort). Your opinion is unchanged.

Either abortion is alway murder (bad) or it’s not (sometimes okey dokey).

 

[Holly3278]

Holly, most abortions in this country stem from the notion that a pregnancy is impairing a woman’s mental health (comfort). Your opinion is unchanged.

Either abortion is alway murder (bad) or it’s not (sometimes okey dokey).

No, my opinion has changed. I guess I need to update you all. I now believe that the only time the killing of the fetus is acceptable is when it is the indirect result of some treatment that is meant to save the life of the mother.

 

[elvisman]

Should abortion be banned or not?

I personally do not think it should be banned. I support a woman’s right to choose. I am, however, pro-life. What do you think?

Let’s get ONE thing straight - you’re NOT pro-life.
You may be partially anti-abortion, but rationalizing human life doesn’t make you “Pro-Life”.
You CANNOT claim to be a Christian and at the same time be in favor of genocide. That is akin to anti-Catholics claiming that Hitler was a Catholic. He WASN’T.

 

[catharina]

No, my opinion has changed. I guess I need to update you all. I now believe that the only time the killing of the fetus is acceptable is when it is the indirect result of some treatment that is meant to save the life of the mother.

Yet this is what you actually said:

“Well everyone, I have changed my opinion once and for all. I believe that abortion is evil and that the only time it might be acceptable is when the mother’s life or health is in danger.”

Sometimes ok, although alway EVIL.

That makes no sense at all.

 

[GeorgiaPeach]

No, my opinion has changed. I guess I need to update you all.

As a wise man once asked…

How many times are you going to do this?

Yes, that was me. And I have now changed from Episcopalian to Baptist. I never really became Episcopalian, I just went to an Episcopal Church for 1 Sunday. I have been a Baptist, however, for all my life.

You seem to have a hard time making up your mind. According to your post a few weeks ago (March 27th), you were Catholic and became Mormon (your profile said conservative Mormon) and then “reverted” to Catholicism. For several months after being confirmed Mormon you flip-flopped daily saying you’d left the CC and then returned. Now you say you are a fundamentalist baptist.

Hey everyone! I’ve been a Catholic for 3 years and a Mormon for less than a year. I was baptized as a Mormon on July 1st 2007 and was confirmed the following Sunday.

Well, I finally submitted my resignation letter after deciding that I truly want to faithfully follow the Catholic Church in every way.

 

[Fitswimmer]

I guess my answer would depend on whether or not banning abortion would actually stop them from happening. The process of artificially ending pregnancy has been around a LONG time, and the only way I can see that it’s going to end is when ALL people understand that the result of the process is the taking of a human life. I would think that a ban without a cooresponding change in attitude will not result in a complete cessation, only a change in practice. If it is illegal in one place, wealthy women who wish to procure abortions will find another place where it is legal. Poor women will either bear children that they cannot provide for, or they will resort to other ways to end the pregnancy.

 

[Holly3278]

As a wise man once asked…

How many times are you going to do this?

You seem to have a hard time making up your mind. According to your post a few weeks ago (March 27th), you were Catholic and became Mormon (your profile said conservative Mormon) and then “reverted” to Catholicism. For several months after being confirmed Mormon you flip-flopped daily saying you’d left the CC and then returned. Now you say you are a fundamentalist baptist.

Look, I’ll admit that I have problems making up my mind. I also have problems with staying in one religion for any major length of time. But this thread is not about that. This thread is about whether or not abortion should be banned. So let’s stick to the topic and if you want to talk about my changing so much, PM me.

 

[ElizabethAnne]

Just as an additional point on this.
Let us suppose that some “Lump of Flesh” is discovered by the police and sent to the lab to determine it’s identity. Would the DNA results come back anything other than human??

Peace
James

James, would that lump’s DNA match the person it came from or would it be different because it was a complete other person?

If you disagree with abortion don’t have one but let other people who don’t share your beliefs decide for themselves. A woman’s life should not be ruined because she’s forced to carry a child that was conceived via rape or accident if the proper procautions were taken. If I were, by some horrible tragady, to become pregnant and wasn’t allowed an abortion I would rather kill myself than carry the fetus. So I’m also pro-choice for selfish reasons as well.

Nichjake, pregnancy is not a tragedy; a child is a gift. Your argument is the same as, “If you don’t agree with murdering small children, don’t murder any small children.”

No, my opinion has changed. I guess I need to update you all. I now believe that the only time the killing of the fetus is acceptable is when it is the indirect result of some treatment that is meant to save the life of the mother.

Holly, in these cases you speak of, I would not call it abortion. The child is not directly killed but dies because a life-saving action was taken and that action happened to result in the child’s death.

I would caution you about using the phrase “life and health of the mother” as justification for abortion. Firstly, because in the cases you speak of, there is no direct killing and therefore no abortion. Secondly, because many people who are pro-abortion try to sell the “life and health of the mother” argument and then use it to justify killing unborn children at any stage because of the mother’s “mental health.”

 

[GeorgiaPeach]

Look, I’ll admit that I have problems making up my mind. I also have problems with staying in one religion for any major length of time. But this thread is not about that. This thread is about whether or not abortion should be banned. So let’s stick to the topic and if you want to talk about my changing so much, PM me.

Agreed.

As far as abortion goes, you’ve posted many times from the pro-life stance. You seemed to have a clear understanding of the issue. If you are easily swayed by the pro-choice arguments maybe it’s best to stay away from the pro-choice sites. While it’s good to see both sides of an issue, do so with caution. Some issues are black and white although some argue that they are grey (moral relativism).

 

[hasikelee]

Loosen up guys! I think Holly has a very open mind to learning about this.

 

[Simon_X]

Sorry guys, meant to vote Abortion should be banned, half asleep when I voted. Do not believe abortion and the mills out there are the answer…Simon X

 

[Holly3278]

Loosen up guys! I think Holly has a very open mind to learning about this.

Thank you hasikelee. I do have a very open mind to learning about this.

 

[BlueRubies]

Actually, delivering early is becoming more and more successful.

Here, a girl just under 22 weeks was delivered:
msnbc.msn.com/id/17237979/

Also, the famous girl born at 24 weeks has hit her 1st b-day I believe? She was recently featured in a newspaper as she does not suffer from any of the classic preemie risks, such as retardation, poor eyesight or digestive issues.

I do believe that early induction of labor is different from the methods of a procured abortion, where the death of the pre-born child is the direct purpose of the surgery.

To those on the thread:

HELLP syndrome is an abbreviation referring to several conditions that occur in relation to pre-eclampsia or eclampsia, although some scientists believe it is a variation of those two.

The occurrence estimate of HELLP is that 10% of women who develop pre-eclampsia or eclampsia will go on to develop HELLP syndrome, although the syndrome can sometimes be the first signs of the illness.

Hellp stands for:

H: hemolysis
EL: elevated liver enzymes
LP: low platelet count

Although I found information saying it can occur at anytime during pregnancy, it appears that more than 80% of the cases occur in the 3rd trimester, a time during which pre-term delivery is widely successful in America.

If the disease is not treated early, up to 25% of women will develop severe complications, such as liver failure or bleeding. Without any treatment at all, a small number of women may die.

So, basically, because of a rare collection of symptoms related to a rare pregnancy complication that might be fatal if not treated at all, abortion should be legal in all 50 states up to 9 months in-utero?

Interestingly, scientists are still trying to find more about this collection of symptoms. All they know is that if you are over 25, white, and have previous health issues with blood (such as high blood pressure, obesity, anemia/diabetes, etc) then you are at a higher risk of getting this.

Please note this is not an attempt to dismiss the seriousness of the disease. The complications of pre-eclampsia and HELLP are severe and can cause lasting health effects on the mother and baby. Those who fear they might be at risk for this disease or who have symptoms should seek immediate medical help.

Has, thanks for writing. I was not trying to say that because of this abortion should be legal. it just seems as though some believe there is never a medical reason serious enough to “get rid” of the baby - and by get rid, I am not siding with abortion, I am siding with birthing the baby and then making the best decesion - is it able to live, will it live like a vegetable and should it be let to die after baptism for a life with God? Many are so many ways it can go. I am just trying to point out that there are some very serious medical disorders out there that affect pregnancy.

While the risk of death to the mother is up to 3%, the fatality rate for the child if not birthed immediately is 33%. There are group dedicated to HELLP, and there are so many stories of mothers who have lost their children. They are very beaten up about how their body could “kill” their children. My doctor described it as me being alergic to my son. Sometimes ending the pregnancy (not by abortion though, but through birthing) is best for mother and child.

“The maternal and fetal complications of HELLP syndrome are significant. The maternal mortality rate is 2 percent, and the perinatal mortality rate is 33 percent.24 …The most effective treatment for HELLP syndrome is prompt delivery.2,3…”

aafp.org/afp/990215ap/829.html

 

[WitnessToHope]

Nichjake,
When people try to justify the legality of abortion, they reference the women who become pregnant as a result of rape/incest. It was mentioned before in one of the posts but I want to state it again to be clear. Less than 2% of the abortions procured are from pregnancies resulting in rape/incest. How do you justify the remaining 98%? The reasons given for the 98% range from being forced by a partner/spouse/parent (so much for choice, huh?) to it’s inconvenient because of social or financial reasons, in spite of the fact there are agencies anxious to help women with unplanned pregnancies. Sorry but we have become a degenerate society that has lost it’s value of human life and places a greater value on individual comfort. Sad…so sad.

I volunteer on Rachel’s Vineyard retreats which help post-abortive women reconcile with God and themselves. It’s so sad to hear the stories but it’s an honor for me to mourn and to cry with them. I only pray that society will hear them and realize that abortion not only kills the baby inside but does deep, deep damage to the woman. If all these pro-choice groups really cared about the woman they’d find ways to help her give birth to her child rather than kill it.

I am glad you’re here on the forums and hope you find what you’re looking for.

In Christ,
Witness to Hope

Since I think that the opinions of some on such a matter should not be forced upon everyone when a great number of people disagree I think abortion should NOT be banned. If you disagree with abortion don’t have one but let other people who don’t share your beliefs decide for themselves. A woman’s life should not be ruined because she’s forced to carry a child that was conceived via rape or accident if the proper procautions were taken. If I were, by some horrible tragady, to become pregnant and wasn’t allowed an abortion I would rather kill myself than carry the fetus. So I’m also pro-choice for selfish reasons as well.

 

[Holly3278]

Nichjake,
When people try to justify the legality of abortion, they reference the women who become pregnant as a result of rape/incest. It was mentioned before in one of the posts but I want to state it again to be clear. Less than 2% of the abortions procured are from pregnancies resulting in rape/incest. How do you justify the remaining 98%? The reasons given for the 98% range from being forced by a partner/spouse/parent (so much for choice, huh?) to it’s inconvenient because of social or financial reasons, in spite of the fact there are agencies anxious to help women with unplanned pregnancies. Sorry but we have become a degenerate society that has lost it’s value of human life and places a greater value on individual comfort. Sad…so sad.

I volunteer on Rachel’s Vineyard retreats which help post-abortive women reconcile with God and themselves. It’s so sad to hear the stories but it’s an honor for me to mourn and to cry with them. I only pray that society will hear them and realize that abortion not only kills the baby inside but does deep, deep damage to the woman. If all these pro-choice groups really cared about the woman they’d find ways to help her give birth to her child rather than kill it.

I am glad you’re here on the forums and hope you find what you’re looking for.

In Christ,
Witness to Hope

Also, why punish the baby for something it didn’t do? Why murder the baby when it did absolutely nothing wrong?

 

[jmcrae]

Also, why punish the baby for something it didn’t do? Why murder the baby when it did absolutely nothing wrong?

I agree. I think that rape is the only crime where the consequence is that the death penalty is meted out to the victim’s child. This seems monstrously unjust, to me.

 

[Holly3278]

I agree. I think that rape is the only crime where the consequence is that the death penalty is meted out to the victim’s child. This seems monstrously unjust, to me.

I totally agree. And it is monstrously unjust. That poor child should not be punished for something it did not do and had no control over!