Should abortion be banned or not?

[hasikelee]

Has, thanks for writing. I was not trying to say that because of this abortion should be legal. it just seems as though some believe there is never a medical reason serious enough to “get rid” of the baby - and by get rid, I am not siding with abortion, I am siding with birthing the baby and then making the best decesion - is it able to live, will it live like a vegetable and should it be let to die after baptism for a life with God? Many are so many ways it can go. I am just trying to point out that there are some very serious medical disorders out there that affect pregnancy.

While the risk of death to the mother is up to 3%, the fatality rate for the child if not birthed immediately is 33%. There are group dedicated to HELLP, and there are so many stories of mothers who have lost their children. They are very beaten up about how their body could “kill” their children. My doctor described it as me being alergic to my son. Sometimes ending the pregnancy (not by abortion though, but through birthing) is best for mother and child.

“The maternal and fetal complications of HELLP syndrome are significant. The maternal mortality rate is 2 percent, and the perinatal mortality rate is 33 percent.24 …The most effective treatment for HELLP syndrome is prompt delivery.2,3…”

aafp.org/afp/990215ap/829.html

Don’t worry, Bluerubies. I figured since you experienced this, you were probably well-informed on the issue. I just wanted background info for those browsing the thread who might not have any idea about HELLP.

Infant mortality is a good tidbit on this syndrome. Isn’t there also a higher incidence of certain conditions in the infants as well?

Even as we look to solutions on a tertiary level, such as delivering a child to relieve the symptoms of HELLP, we must keep an eye on preventative treatment as well.

This is obvious in, say, those cases with asthma. Asthma requires treatment at all different times. Yes, at the time of the attack, instant treatment is required to reduce the risk of a fatality. But, tertiary treatment is often a choice between two risks, or one damaging procedure versus another one. With good preventative treatment, the incidence of an attack is lessened, thus giving the patient better health.

As in the case of the little girl born just under 22 weeks, we are seeing that increased attention to the development of science and technology is slowly chipping away at the justification for abortion. How long will this be allowed to go on before science is stifled?

Incidentally, my mom suffered from this syndrome and eclampsia with her 2nd to last child, a son. She also suffered from toxemia during 2 pregnancies. This leads to other questions, such as the effectiveness of our American medicine versus other treatments available.

 

[LambOfGod]

Should abortion be banned or not?

I personally do not think it should be banned. I support a woman’s right to choose. I am, however, pro-life. What do you think?

1 Corinthians.6

[19] What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
[20] For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God’s

Anyway I made a BIG MISTAKE and voted NO (half asleep)… but my real vote is YES!!! 100% very very sorry for my stupidness

Abortion is a grave sin.

 

[BlueRubies]

Don’t worry, Bluerubies. I figured since you experienced this, you were probably well-informed on the issue. I just wanted background info for those browsing the thread who might not have any idea about HELLP.

Infant mortality is a good tidbit on this syndrome. Isn’t there also a higher incidence of certain conditions in the infants as well?

Even as we look to solutions on a tertiary level, such as delivering a child to relieve the symptoms of HELLP, we must keep an eye on preventative treatment as well.

This is obvious in, say, those cases with asthma. Asthma requires treatment at all different times. Yes, at the time of the attack, instant treatment is required to reduce the risk of a fatality. But, tertiary treatment is often a choice between two risks, or one damaging procedure versus another one. With good preventative treatment, the incidence of an attack is lessened, thus giving the patient better health.

As in the case of the little girl born just under 22 weeks, we are seeing that increased attention to the development of science and technology is slowly chipping away at the justification for abortion. How long will this be allowed to go on before science is stifled?

Incidentally, my mom suffered from this syndrome and eclampsia with her 2nd to last child, a son. She also suffered from toxemia during 2 pregnancies. This leads to other questions, such as the effectiveness of our American medicine versus other treatments available.

Has, you are exactly right. There are preventative measures that should be taken. For example, thank God for my Dr who delivered my son - he (and my regular OB) said that I need to see a high risk OB - they will check me every single week if I get pg again, and I will have weekly preventative shots to try and make me not go into premature labor again. Of course, if HELLP does develop again, my first choice would be to be monitored and take the baby when necessary. I put my life in the hands in God and my OB so I have to trust them to do what’s best for me and my son. Thank God my dr. there watched me closely and something just ticked in his head to test me for HELLP - he saved both my baby and me. Some women get there too late and their baby is already gone - that’s why there is that delicate balance - trying to give the baby as long as posisble in the womb without harming it. There is also a risk of HELLP after pregnancy, so it would have to be checked then too.

I am just glad we live in a modern world where they can save the lives of even 22 weekers. I know how lucky I am when I read of babies born at 26 weeks even that didn’t make it. I am so glad they monitored me, knew labor was coming and took steps to “mature” my son with steroids and kept me under constant watch and that God made my son so healthy right off the bat - I know a lot of premie parents aren’t as lucky with the health of their child. Fortunately for us, my son was even able to breath without any aid a day after his birth - pretty miraculous for little over 27 weeker!

I agree with you about it chipping away at the issue of abortion. I don’t know how much we are going to get the law to change, but I absolutely think it should be 100% illegal by law to get an abortion past 20 weeks when the baby becomes viable (and sooner if we are even able to save babies born earlier than that!) - I don’t see how lawmakers can’t see this (and of course I wish this for the first half of the prengancy too). A baby that is viable should ALWAYS be birthed and given it’s chance at life. If it is not meant to be at least it was given a chance and can be baptized.

 

[hasikelee]

Has, you are exactly right. There are preventative measures that should be taken. For example, thank God for my Dr who delivered my son - he (and my regular OB) said that I need to see a high risk OB - they will check me every single week if I get pg again, and I will have weekly preventative shots to try and make me not go into premature labor again. Of course, if HELLP does develop again, my first choice would be to be monitored and take the baby when necessary. I put my life in the hands in God and my OB so I have to trust them to do what’s best for me and my son. Thank God my dr. there watched me closely and something just ticked in his head to test me for HELLP - he saved both my baby and me. Some women get there too late and their baby is already gone - that’s why there is that delicate balance - trying to give the baby as long as posisble in the womb without harming it. There is also a risk of HELLP after pregnancy, so it would have to be checked then too.

I am just glad we live in a modern world where they can save the lives of even 22 weekers. I know how lucky I am when I read of babies born at 26 weeks even that didn’t make it. I am so glad they monitored me, knew labor was coming and took steps to “mature” my son with steroids and kept me under constant watch and that God made my son so healthy right off the bat - I know a lot of premie parents aren’t as lucky with the health of their child. Fortunately for us, my son was even able to breath without any aid a day after his birth - pretty miraculous for little over 27 weeker!

I agree with you about it chipping away at the issue of abortion. I don’t know how much we are going to get the law to change, but I absolutely think it should be 100% illegal by law to get an abortion past 20 weeks when the baby becomes viable (and sooner if we are even able to save babies born earlier than that!) - I don’t see how lawmakers can’t see this (and of course I wish this for the first half of the prengancy too). A baby that is viable should ALWAYS be birthed and given it’s chance at life. If it is not meant to be at least it was given a chance and can be baptized.

Aww, your son sounds like a trooper! You are right, it is definitely a big difference to have a high quality doctor. I saw how important that was when my MIL, who experienced stillbirths and miscarriages for 20yrs, finally found a specialist with something just a little more than all the other doctors in her past. Her last little son wouldn’t be here without that doctor.

 

[hawkeye]

. A woman’s life should not be ruined because she’s forced to carry a child that was conceived via rape or accident if the proper procautions were takenalso pro-choice for selfish reasons as well.

Neither should the child’s beating heat be ruined, the child didn’t copulate.

 

[catharina]

Since I think that the opinions of some on such a matter should not be forced upon everyone when a great number of people disagree I think abortion should NOT be banned. If you disagree with abortion don’t have one but let other people who don’t share your beliefs decide for themselves. A woman’s life should not be ruined because she’s forced to carry a child that was conceived via rape or accident if the proper procautions were taken. If I were, by some horrible tragady, to become pregnant and wasn’t allowed an abortion I would rather kill myself than carry the fetus. So I’m also pro-choice for selfish reasons as well.

Bolded above is the tragic and flawed notion that an event (carrying an infant to term) could possibly be blamed for “ruining a woman’s life.”

If a woman was injured in an accident and landed in a nursing home for six months, would her life be ruined? If she was assaulted and ended up in a wheelchair for the next forty years, would her life be ruined?

Would I be willing to give ongoing care and support to a pregnant woman who was traumatized by the pregnancy? Yes. Would I be willing to take her out and shoot her? No. Nor would I be willing to take out and shoot the others who might believe their lives would be ruined by the limits imposed by accident or by injury, even deliberately inflicted injuries. Have you really thought through the dramatic bottom line of what you propose you would do if your “life was ruined” by a pregnancy (and yes, I’m including pregnancy resulting from rape and/or incest)? Either all life has value or no life does - with the conclusion that life is relative and power wins.

Words are cheap, especially dramatic words. If facing horribly painful challenges are beyond you, then how do you expect to live this life?

 

[MindOverMatter]

Hello Everybody. I am writer, and I am currently writing a book on Catholic Morality because i think Christian-morality is greatly missunderstood by alot of people. I just wanted to add my Two cents.

This post is going to be a bit long, but it is absolutely necessary in order for us to grasp the full reality of what’s going on.

I think the main reality of this debate has a problem which is bigger then the issue that is being discussed. This problem is to do with how people perceive reality. The abortion issue is really a metaphysical problem, as much as a moral one. A lot of people do not realize that right and wrong is only true in relation to the ultimate reality of things. Some people think that morality and value, like the Universe, just exists. Plus; human beings, on a whole, can be very shallow, and how we perceive reality and issues like abortion can be affected by that.

If you admit that abortion is wrong, then you are basically admitting that the human processes of life have a value outside of the human opinion. This in some sense presupposes a God, since a thing cannot have objective value unless it exists in relation to something which objectively presupposes its value. To put it another way; only the creator of all reality has the right to determine what is right and wrong; and I believe we can know God and moral law through reason.

This fact will immediately repel some people, even though they like to view themselves as having value, and that people ought to respect that. We must understand that this isn’t just about abortion; this is a rebellion against God; some people do not want any God or religion having any hold over their lives whatsoever. Notice that pro-lifers are constantly being portrayed as irrational fools who have no logical premises for dismissing pro-choice arguments. Again; human beings can be very hypocritical when they want their cake and eat it. If there is no such thing as right and wrong; then it is not wrong of me to kill anybody at any stage of development, regardless of whether they live inside or outside of their Mothers womb. You have no value, and if you present a burden to me, run.

If you believe in God, it follows that abortion is wrong because we have no personal right of our own, unless given to us by God, to stop the creation of a human life. But if there is nothing at the root of nature, then, like I said before, value is a human invention, a fantasy just like morals and religious belief. In this case we are not dealing with moral truth, but a democracy in which “voting” is a means by which we decide how society should be run; not morals. Some people believe themselves to be the giver of value; in other words, what ever they say has value, is sacred.

Some people dislike the idea of a religion having moral primacy. People complain about totalitarianism, but ultimately, whether its a religious state or a socialist state, their are going to be people complaining that their dignity as human beings are being diminished my an opposing view. All states are totalitarian against somebody’s beliefs. Given this fact, we cannot be pro-choice just because it might hurt people’s feelings. Jesus was only interested in moral truth, and he warned us that we would be ridiculed, abused, tormented and will become social outcasts. Jesus got pinned up on a cross. That’s what we must prepare ourselves for. Continued…

 

[MindOverMatter]

Continued…

My Argument from logic.
Things happen by chance; we cannot do anything about those events that might kill a person or stop a process from realizing its intended goal. However, at the moment of conception, a process takes place which ultimately leads to me typing words into this computer; in other words, it is a process that will end in my being born unless something stops that from happening, such as a “personal will” or a miss-carriage. In this sense, as far as we have control over events, we are dealing with deterministic values.

I have 3 basic premises from this point on.

1. Right now, at this very moment, my life has value; and it would be morally wrong for any human to take my life, unless the giver of all life has commanded it.
2. I am here because of a “deterministic chain of events” which began at the moment of conception. It will reach its intended end, unless prevented.
3. I am an individual, and so it follows that my individuality as a person is rooted intrinsically in my human embryo. If you destroy that, you destroy my individuality; as I can only assume that I cannot be born again at a later time when my mother sees fit. I exist now as a mind and body because of my conception.

Conclusion.

1. If you value my existence now, then you must, from the moment of my conception, value every stage of development which lead to my birth. It is impossible to distinguish from my existence now and my human embryo. Therefore, by default, a human embryo has human rights. Otherwise you cannot say that you truly value my existence. I would see any attempt to say so, while promoting pro choice, as a lie. On this premise, abortion ought to be illegal, because we all began from the moment of conception, and we all value our lives.

However one the event of it being legal, I do not agree that people ought to be given the death penalty, as some people do not believe that they are doing anything wrong. Besides that, I believe that the death penalty in America is wrong.

I could not exercise my right when I was in my mother’s womb, but I am exercising my rights, now. It is an offence to My dignity, the human-race and God.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Should abortion be banned or not?

I personally do not think it should be banned. I support a woman’s right to choose. I am, however, pro-life. What do you think?

It should be a crime equal to premeditated murder, plain and simply.

 

[MindOverMatter]

I want to exist.

 

[catholicbuckeye]

Should abortion be banned or not?

I personally do not think it should be banned. I support a woman’s right to choose. I am, however, pro-life. What do you think?

Supporting “a woman’s right to choose” is a working definition of “Pro-Choice.” Then in the next sentence you said you were “Pro-Life.” I think those are contradictory statements…

 

[mapleoak]

Bolded above is the tragic and flawed notion that an event (carrying an infant to term) could possibly be blamed for “ruining a woman’s life.”

If a woman was injured in an accident and landed in a nursing home for six months, would her life be ruined? If she was assaulted and ended up in a wheelchair for the next forty years, would her life be ruined?

Would I be willing to give ongoing care and support to a pregnant woman who was traumatized by the pregnancy? Yes. Would I be willing to take her out and shoot her? No. Nor would I be willing to take out and shoot the others who might believe their lives would be ruined by the limits imposed by accident or by injury, even deliberately inflicted injuries. Have you really thought through the dramatic bottom line of what you propose you would do if your “life was ruined” by a pregnancy (and yes, I’m including pregnancy resulting from rape and/or incest)? Either all life has value or no life does - with the conclusion that life is relative and power wins.

Words are cheap, especially dramatic words. If facing horribly painful challenges are beyond you, then how do you expect to live this life?

This is so true. Makes one wonder what these folks consider to be their life being ruined. What is their life not being ruined defined as?

 

[Dameedna]

I’m probably one of the few here, but yes I support abortion, and believe it should be considered a basic right for all women.

What I do not like, is the mystery surrounding it, nor do I like the fact that I think abortion has become a “choice” for society rather than the woman. IE…she has uncontrollable kids,not my problem. She could alway’s have gotten an abortion.

The CHOICE is for the woman, not for society to use it as an excuse to not put the time and effort into preventing unwanted pregnancies, support families in trouble, nor should it be an excuse to wipe the slate clean when it comes to irresponsible sex. Irresponsible sex can result in a lot more than pregnancy.

The Mystery side of it bothers me the most however. I used to believe that those people who “shoved” their abortion pictures at me, were trying to manipulate me emotionally. To a degree they were, and I don’t like being manipulated. However, as long as a person show’s an abortion for what it is(and don’t put a photo of a 8.5 month old baby on a picture and claim it’s 6 weeks old) then I think I would support legislation to change how abortion occurs. People need to know WHAT it is, so they can make an informed decision. Currently, it’s clouded in ignorance.

A 5 month old fetus is NOT a collection of cells. If knowing this, would change your view on abortion then fine. Let’s not keep people ignorant. I cannot imagine a womans horror, at believing she is destroying a blob, when in fact, the fetuses head was removed from it’s shoulders inside the womb and sucked out, and looked identical to a newborn with teeth, hair and fingernails. I dont’ want her to go through that out of ignorance.

It’s a gross , invasive procedure that can have many side-affects and it NEEDS to be clarified. But yes, I do support the right to choose, and I believe it should be limited to 3 months, after that medical necessity.

I put the choice of the woman, above that of the child up till that point, and I see abortion as a unique situation, and cannot be equated to any other situation involving human life. In fact most situations warrent a unique approach, including a Just war, Euthanasia, Death Penalty and abortion. They are not all one and the same.

When you watch a woman shoving a stick up her private parts, to force an abortion on herself, because she cannot feed her children, you start to wonder at what point, do we allow this choice?

The choice I support is 3 months and will fight to support legislation up to that point. I wouldn’t personally have one.

 

[mapleoak]

I’m probably one of the few here, but yes I support abortion, and believe it should be considered a basic right for all women.

Let’s look at what you are actually saying. You support killing very young people, and believe all women have the right to kill innocent human beings?

What I do not like, is the mystery surrounding it, nor do I like the fact that I think abortion has become a “choice” for society rather than the woman.

You don’t like society saying whether it is okay to kill people, instead women should be able to decide to kill who they want on their own.

IE…she has uncontrollable kids,not my problem. She could alway’s have gotten an abortion.

Couldn’t she always just kill them now? Why is it too late now that they are born? Isn’t it her choice and not society’s?

The CHOICE is for the woman, not for society to use it as an excuse to not put the time and effort into preventing unwanted pregnancies, support families in trouble, nor should it be an excuse to wipe the slate clean when it comes to irresponsible sex. Irresponsible sex can result in a lot more than pregnancy.

None of which justifies killing innocent people.

The Mystery side of it bothers me the most however. I used to believe that those people who “shoved” their abortion pictures at me, were trying to manipulate me emotionally.

No, they were trying to portray the reality that abortion is murder and puts real human beings to death.

To a degree they were, and I don’t like being manipulated.

And I don’t like when innocent human beings are slaughtered.

However, as long as a person show’s an abortion for what it is(and don’t put a photo of a 8.5 month old baby on a picture and claim it’s 6 weeks old) then I think I would support legislation to change how abortion occurs. People need to know WHAT it is, so they can make an informed decision. Currently, it’s clouded in ignorance.

Honesty is a virtue regardless of ones position. Nevertheless someone’s being dishonest does not make a person less of a person, nor does it justify killing them.

A 5 month old fetus is NOT a collection of cells. If knowing this, would change your view on abortion then fine. Let’s not keep people ignorant. I cannot imagine a womans horror, at believing she is destroying a blob, when in fact, the fetuses head was removed from it’s shoulders inside the womb and sucked out, and looked identical to a newborn with teeth, hair and fingernails. I dont’ want her to go through that out of ignorance.

If someone honestly believed that their neighbor was made out of cheese when they shot and killed him, does that mean it was okay and all is well in Dullesville?

It’s a gross , invasive procedure that can have many side-affects and it NEEDS to be clarified. But yes, I do support the right to choose, and I believe it should be limited to 3 months, after that medical necessity.

Rephrased way of what you already said. Abortion is murder, but it is up to women to decide for themselves if they can murder people.

I put the choice of the woman, above that of the child up till that point

You put women’s choice to kill above innocent people’s right to live.

and I see abortion as a unique situation, and cannot be equated to any other situation involving human life.

Yes, killing people or being killed for that matter is a far different experience from anything else in life.

 

[catholicbuckeye]

I’m probably one of the few here, but yes I support abortion, and believe it should be considered a basic right for all women.

What I do not like, is the mystery surrounding it, nor do I like the fact that I think abortion has become a “choice” for society rather than the woman. IE…she has uncontrollable kids,not my problem. She could alway’s have gotten an abortion.

The CHOICE is for the woman, not for society to use it as an excuse to not put the time and effort into preventing unwanted pregnancies, support families in trouble, nor should it be an excuse to wipe the slate clean when it comes to irresponsible sex. Irresponsible sex can result in a lot more than pregnancy.

The Mystery side of it bothers me the most however. I used to believe that those people who “shoved” their abortion pictures at me, were trying to manipulate me emotionally. To a degree they were, and I don’t like being manipulated. However, as long as a person show’s an abortion for what it is(and don’t put a photo of a 8.5 month old baby on a picture and claim it’s 6 weeks old) then I think I would support legislation to change how abortion occurs. People need to know WHAT it is, so they can make an informed decision. Currently, it’s clouded in ignorance.

A 5 month old fetus is NOT a collection of cells. If knowing this, would change your view on abortion then fine. Let’s not keep people ignorant. I cannot imagine a womans horror, at believing she is destroying a blob, when in fact, the fetuses head was removed from it’s shoulders inside the womb and sucked out, and looked identical to a newborn with teeth, hair and fingernails. I dont’ want her to go through that out of ignorance.

It’s a gross , invasive procedure that can have many side-affects and it NEEDS to be clarified. But yes, I do support the right to choose, and I believe it should be limited to 3 months, after that medical necessity.

I put the choice of the woman, above that of the child up till that point, and I see abortion as a unique situation, and cannot be equated to any other situation involving human life. In fact most situations warrent a unique approach, including a Just war, Euthanasia, Death Penalty and abortion. They are not all one and the same.

When you watch a woman shoving a stick up her private parts, to force an abortion on herself, because she cannot feed her children, you start to wonder at what point, do we allow this choice?

The choice I support is 3 months and will fight to support legislation up to that point. I wouldn’t personally have one.

The thing with abortion is you cannot use a sliding rule to tell when abortion is ok or not. Everybody has an opinion on what is ok. There are people walking around with the letters phd after their names who have suggested it is ok to “abort” up to 3 days after birth! The principle doesn’t boil down to when it is, but to what it is!!! It’s a murder at 3 months, at 39 weeks 6 days and 23 hours or 2 days after birth!!! Anything else is just rationalizing.

 

[vern_humphrey]

When you watch a woman shoving a stick up her private parts, to force an abortion on herself, because she cannot feed her children, you start to wonder at what point, do we allow this choice?

You watched this happen, personally? And did nothing to help her feed her children?

 

[hasikelee]

I’m probably one of the few here, but yes I support abortion, and believe it should be considered a basic right for all women.

What I do not like, is the mystery surrounding it, nor do I like the fact that I think abortion has become a “choice” for society rather than the woman. IE…she has uncontrollable kids,not my problem. She could alway’s have gotten an abortion.

The CHOICE is for the woman, not for society to use it as an excuse to not put the time and effort into preventing unwanted pregnancies, support families in trouble, nor should it be an excuse to wipe the slate clean when it comes to irresponsible sex. Irresponsible sex can result in a lot more than pregnancy.

The Mystery side of it bothers me the most however. I used to believe that those people who “shoved” their abortion pictures at me, were trying to manipulate me emotionally. To a degree they were, and I don’t like being manipulated. However, as long as a person show’s an abortion for what it is(and don’t put a photo of a 8.5 month old baby on a picture and claim it’s 6 weeks old) then I think I would support legislation to change how abortion occurs. People need to know WHAT it is, so they can make an informed decision. Currently, it’s clouded in ignorance.

A 5 month old fetus is NOT a collection of cells. If knowing this, would change your view on abortion then fine. Let’s not keep people ignorant. I cannot imagine a womans horror, at believing she is destroying a blob, when in fact, the fetuses head was removed from it’s shoulders inside the womb and sucked out, and looked identical to a newborn with teeth, hair and fingernails. I dont’ want her to go through that out of ignorance.

It’s a gross , invasive procedure that can have many side-affects and it NEEDS to be clarified. But yes, I do support the right to choose, and I believe it should be limited to 3 months, after that medical necessity.

I put the choice of the woman, above that of the child up till that point, and I see abortion as a unique situation, and cannot be equated to any other situation involving human life. In fact most situations warrent a unique approach, including a Just war, Euthanasia, Death Penalty and abortion. They are not all one and the same.

When you watch a woman shoving a stick up her private parts, to force an abortion on herself, because she cannot feed her children, you start to wonder at what point, do we allow this choice?

The choice I support is 3 months and will fight to support legislation up to that point. I wouldn’t personally have one.

Well the choice the Dutch support is up to 12 years even if the parents disagree.

 

[MattG]

Should abortion be banned or not?

I personally do not think it should be banned. I support a woman’s right to choose. I am, however, pro-life. What do you think?

Since life is the first requirement for choice and some of the abortees are female, some are male and some are twins, what does your support for a right to choose abortion tell your vulnerable sisters? Death by any means is an end wih eternal promise. Life is the choice of a new beginning with untold possibilities that too will have an end without end. So________

 

[MattG]

Hello Everybody. I am writer, and I am currently writing a book on Catholic Morality because i think Christian-morality is greatly missunderstood by alot of people. I just wanted to add my Two cents.

If you admit that abortion is wrong, then you are basically admitting that the human processes of life have a value outside of the human opinion. This in some sense presupposes a God, since a thing cannot have objective value unless it exists in relation to something which objectively presupposes its value. To put it another way; only the creator of all reality has the right to determine what is right and wrong; and I believe we can know God and moral law through reason.

Notice that pro-lifers are constantly being portrayed as irrational fools who have no logical premises for dismissing pro-choice arguments. Again; human beings can be very hypocritical when they want their cake and eat it. If there is no such thing as right and wrong; then it is not wrong of me to kill anybody at any stage of development, regardless of whether they live inside or outside of their Mothers womb. You have no value, and if you present a burden to me, run.

If you believe in God, it follows that abortion is wrong because we have no personal right of our own, unless given to us by God, to stop the creation of a human life. But if there is nothing at the root of nature, then, like I said before, value is a human invention, a fantasy just like morals and religious belief. In this case we are not dealing with moral truth, but a democracy in which “voting” is a means by which we decide how society should be run; not morals. Some people believe themselves to be the giver of value; in other words, what ever they say has value, is sacred.

…

True, enough, if there is a God, abortion the willful destruction of human life would seem to be wrong. But life is eternal, at least that’s my hope.

However, the folks who should really be against abortion are the atheists since this one life is all there is in their religion, but if they are not against it, soon their will be no more atheists. Thank you for giving me the opportunity for a little hyperbole and forgive me for the drastic edits made in your post for space (and no, I don’t work for NASA)

 

[Mystic_of_God]

Abortion is one of the most amazing travesties in the cosmos. It is so radically opposed to the marriage covenant that I find it difficult to comprehend.

Marriage is a way of saying “This is my body given up for you.” In fact, this one phrase is the unifying factor in all the sacraments, powerful correlation and complete selflessness. Abortion and the so-called “right to choose” and the “right to privacy”. is the exact opposite of this. Using sex for selfish pleasure (dismantling the unitive aspect of sex), then to destroy the child (dismantling the living aspect of sex), thus effectively dismantling marriage, is so utterly depraved and completely selfish as to be the opposite of marriage. Thus abortion is a massive sacrilege. Also, the reversal of role of mother (protector) to murderer (destroyer) reaches deep into the heart of the family, thus, the mother who has other children, and procures an abortion, will be increasingly hostile to her other children. Her marriage will also be torn apart, due to the mystical aspect of abortion. If the mother is unmarried, it makes the whole thing worse by requiring that the mother never did have any respect for marriage.

ALL abortions also constitute not trusting in the will of God, thus abortion is disobediance.

ALL abortion is murder, of course.

What’s more, since abortion is reversing the role of mother as protector and caretaker, it is unnatural.

Also, as it destroys the natural family, it will also contribute to the downfall of the human family, and thus, the world.

The list goes on.

Thus it should be banned.