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Deacon_Ed_B
Guest
OK, here is a stupid question. How did arson get involved???
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B
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vern_humphrey
Guest
If it’s okay to kill the most helpless and innocent amongst us, it should surely be legal to set fire to the house.
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catharina
Guest
I pulled it out of the air.
I could have said armed robbery and extortion.
Or identity-theft and assault.
Pick a crime, lift the ban, and let people work it out in private as their free will dictates.
Makes as much sense as legalized abortion.
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catharina
Guest
Precisely. Or to rape if you “really feel like” you need to rape.If it’s okay to kill the most helpless and innocent amongst us, it should surely be legal to set fire to the house.
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hasikelee
Guest
Rape is a great example.
Plenty of prosecuted rapists have been videotaped talking about their actions. It sounds just like…dum dum dum those who support abortion!
Serial killers and rapists have said things such as “Women are not persons” “I had no other choice” “She didn’t really feel it [any pain]” “It’s my body to do with as I wish” etc etc
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vern_humphrey
Guest
I had an apologist for abortion (on these forums) tell me that because Muslims believe the baby dosen’t have a soul until the end of the first trimester, a law against abortion would violate their religion.
Hot off the press! Muslims don’t believe women have souls at all!!
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allhers
Guest
Yes it ought to be banned from the face of the earth. I don’t think some people understand how truly evil taking the life of an innocent baby really is.
However, since most people even in this thread think it ought to be banned, rise up and inform others about it, direct them to sites such as
Judie Brown’s www.all.org
Fr. Frank Pavone’s www.priestsforlife.org
and Fr. Thomas Euteneuer’s
www.hli.org
(human life international, pro life missionaries to the world.)
Do what you can, but do something.
If all you can do is pray, do that at least.
However, since most people even in this thread think it ought to be banned, rise up and inform others about it, direct them to sites such as
Judie Brown’s www.all.org
Fr. Frank Pavone’s www.priestsforlife.org
and Fr. Thomas Euteneuer’s
www.hli.org
(human life international, pro life missionaries to the world.)
Do what you can, but do something.
If all you can do is pray, do that at least.
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vern_humphrey
Guest
Abortion is a Catholic sin. Had we vigorously opposed it from the start, it would never have become law.
If we would all work to end it, we could do that.
But too many of us are apologists for abortion.
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mapleoak
Guest
Because a poster had promoted the idea that abortion is not a moral wrong, but relative wrong. If it is up to each individual to decide for themselves whether abortion is acceptable, it is no different than each individual deciding for themselves whether arson, rape, embeezlement, murder, treason, or anything else is acceptable. Why have any laws when it should just be up to the individual?
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mapleoak
Guest
Neither do many aethiest murderers. They could care less if people have souls or not. It is crazy how people can reason that it should be up to the murderer to decide if murder is okay.I had an apologist for abortion (on these forums) tell me that because Muslims believe the baby dosen’t have a soul until the end of the first trimester, a law against abortion would violate their religion.
Hot off the press! Muslims don’t believe women have souls at all!!
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hasikelee
Guest
ROTFL…people just don’t think things through all the way.I had an apologist for abortion (on these forums) tell me that because Muslims believe the baby dosen’t have a soul until the end of the first trimester, a law against abortion would violate their religion.
Hot off the press! Muslims don’t believe women have souls at all!!
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vern_humphrey
Guest
Sometimes it’s like a trip through a funhouse guided by a schizophrenic.
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Aslieas
Guest
Note: Nobody died, the misconceived idea to overmedicate failed. Instead of no aunt, I have a misproportioned and depressed aunt. So, it’s a happy thing, because she’s here and we all love her, but it’s disturbing to think about sometimes.
That’s a very good point! I’m glad you (and others) brought that up, because I didn’t think about it. That’s actually pretty ironic, because I’m usually good at following chain-of-event logic.
So the flaws in my argument are:
- The idea that people can be responsible with free will is, apparantly, ridiculous, and it sounds too much like moral relativism
- I failed to think through the most basic bit: If abortion is murder, and murder should be illegal, then abortion should be illegal
Oh, and here’s a special thanks to jmcrae: thanks for your post on the history of abortion, I feel enlightened, educated, and delighted from both the information you provided and the tone you wrote with. Thank you!
I came to the forums to become a better Catholic, and that is what you guys are helping me do.
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Deacon_Ed_B
Guest
Aslieas, you will remain in my prayers
Prayers & Blessings
Deacon Ed B
Prayers & Blessings
Deacon Ed B
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hasikelee
Guest
Whether something is legal or illegal, we still have free will.Note: Nobody died, the misconceived idea to overmedicate failed. Instead of no aunt, I have a misproportioned and depressed aunt. So, it’s a happy thing, because she’s here and we all love her, but it’s disturbing to think about sometimes.
That’s a very good point! I’m glad you (and others) brought that up, because I didn’t think about it. That’s actually pretty ironic, because I’m usually good at following chain-of-event logic.
So the flaws in my argument are:
Well, the idea of responsible free will is something I am going to cling to. However, I hereby officially give up my argument about not banning abortion. I got some very useful feedback from you people, and it helped me adjust my thinking. Thanks!
- The idea that people can be responsible with free will is, apparantly, ridiculous, and it sounds too much like moral relativism
- I failed to think through the most basic bit: If abortion is murder, and murder should be illegal, then abortion should be illegal
Oh, and here’s a special thanks to jmcrae: thanks for your post on the history of abortion, I feel enlightened, educated, and delighted from both the information you provided and the tone you wrote with. Thank you!
I came to the forums to become a better Catholic, and that is what you guys are helping me do.
If the legality of an action affected free will, then rape wouldn’t exist in America. ORC (Organized Retail Crime) wouldn’t be costing retailers in America millions of dollars every year. Children wouldn’t be neglected, starved or molested.
That’s why pro-choice as a name never made sense to me. The choice is never taken away, no matter how illegal it gets, no matter how society views the action, no matter how easy or hard it is to do.
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jmcrae
Guest
With regard to things that do no harm to others, it makes sense to let people freely choose, but society lives or dies based on the lives and deaths of its members, so it makes sense for society to be in control of whether you are allowed to kill other people (and if so, who).
Yes, especially since the unborn victim is completely innocent of any wrong-doing. It can make sense for a drug dealer to murder his rival (he still goes to the chair for it, though) since his rival probably did something that made him angry enough to kill, but killing innocent little children makes absolutely no sense.
You’re welcome!!
Every now and then, I do manage to make a small amount of sense, at least.
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Aslieas
Guest
::snort:: Of course “pro-choice” doesn’t make sense, they just say that because it sounds better than “pro-abortion.”
(I’m not snorting at you, I’m snorting because label-twisting really chaps my cheeks.)
We do the same thing (almost) by saying “pro-life,” because it flows better and sounds better than “anti-abortion.” It’s not exactly the same, though, because “pro-life” actually defines our mission.
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vern_humphrey
Guest
Some amadan once said to me, “We’re pro-choice, so you must be anti-choice.”::snort:: Of course “pro-choice” doesn’t make sense, they just say that because it sounds better than “pro-abortion.”
(I’m not snorting at you, I’m snorting because label-twisting really chaps my cheeks.)
We do the same thing (almost) by saying “pro-life,” because it flows better and sounds better than “anti-abortion.” It’s not exactly the same, though, because “pro-life” actually defines our mission.
And I replied, “We’re pro-life, so you must be anti-life.”
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hasikelee
Guest
Hmm, I agree that pro-life makes more sense. I actually prefer anti-abortion because that is my focus. Right now I can barely do the laundry, let alone take on all the issues of genocide, human rights, euthanasia, etc!::snort:: Of course “pro-choice” doesn’t make sense, they just say that because it sounds better than “pro-abortion.”
(I’m not snorting at you, I’m snorting because label-twisting really chaps my cheeks.)
We do the same thing (almost) by saying “pro-life,” because it flows better and sounds better than “anti-abortion.” It’s not exactly the same, though, because “pro-life” actually defines our mission.
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